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Is equallity of the sexes possible?
bluellama Posted: Mon Oct 20 08:57:03 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  The equallity of everyone, no matter what minority they may be, is possible. The only problem with pure equallity, is that almost nothing will be fair. If all races are in an equall amount within a certain buisiness, or within a certain school, it will not be fair because some may be more quallified for the position, but cannot get it because they have to fill a certain quota. But we cannot have a system where it is purely based qualifications if there are inner city schools all across the country , mostly of non white population, where the children are not having the same level of education as upper class public or private school. Until the schools are fixed, there is not promise of a fair society. We can settle for equall, as to not hurt the feelings or those that really take race into consideration, which is a complete load of crap. Equallity is not fair nor is it freedom.


 
FN Posted: Mon Oct 20 10:23:30 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  No there can never be equality.


There ARE differences between the sexes.

There ARE differences between races and cultures (which does not imply that 1 'race' is better than another).

There's a reason communism doesn't work you know, equality is something totally against human nature.


 
bluellama Posted: Mon Oct 20 14:14:28 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:

>There's a reason communism doesn't work you know, equality is something totally against human nature.

I do agree with you there...equallity is against our nature, but I beleive that equallity is possible. To conform, but make sure no one is discriminated against....there is a possiblibly


 
Asswipe Posted: Mon Oct 20 14:47:01 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I believe it is possible, as i believe racial equality is possible and will one day come to be. Observe the changes gender equality has gone through in the US w/ in the last 100 years alone. Women were once thought of as property of the males, adapting their lives to his. Today things are far different and will continue to change in the same direction.

Equality goes against the nature, which isn't inborn, but taught to us. It has existed in several tribal groups. I wouldn't blame a shitty upbringing on human nature.

While i can't speak for the entire world, as it seems the belgians still obvserve the rule of thumb when beating their wife, or whatever senior christophe is referring to, in the US, things have changed dramatically in this area.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Oct 20 15:15:09 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  sure it's possible, it's a matter of culture, not genetics. and cultures change and evolve.



 
addi Posted: Mon Oct 20 15:27:09 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I'm all for equality in opportunities, pay, and being treated as first class citizens. Progress has been made in certain countries, but still in too many places women are treated like dirt with no rights.
Having said that I hope women and men remain "distinct" in other areas. I rather enjoy the differences.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Oct 20 15:44:31 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  i agree, and i believe that women are gods greatest creation.
they smell and taste really good, and i love it when they do my laundry.


 
addi Posted: Mon Oct 20 16:11:48 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>they smell and taste really good

LOL!!! Oh, you DOG!


 
FN Posted: Mon Oct 20 16:16:35 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:
>While i can't speak for the entire world, as it seems the belgians still obvserve the rule of thumb when beating their wife, or whatever senior christophe is referring to, in the US, things have changed dramatically in this area.


Where did I say that?

I said there are differences between males and females (which aren't only culturally determined) and you're assuming that that means I see women as male property and living punch bags?


 
SntSaturn Posted: Mon Oct 20 16:51:03 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>No there can never be equality.
>
>
>There ARE differences between the sexes.
>
>There ARE differences between races and cultures (which does not imply that 1 'race' is better than another).


I have to agree with Christophe. We are different, and a mindset can't change that.


 
libra Posted: Mon Oct 20 16:53:32 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  There are certain genetic and hormonal differences between women and men, that's a given. There are so many different views of what equality is, that this question is hard to answer without defining that first. If by equal you mean equal in the workplace, in opportunities, yes, i think it is possible. Women in many areas have shown that they are just as competent as men, moreso in some cases.


 
Mesh Posted: Mon Oct 20 17:07:39 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  racial equality in institutions and governments might to be possible, but on a personal level, always there will be people who are racist, sexist etc. etc.


 
Asswipe Posted: Mon Oct 20 17:09:04 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>Asswipe said:
>>While i can't speak for the entire world, as it seems the belgians still obvserve the rule of thumb when beating their wife, or whatever senior christophe is referring to, in the US, things have changed dramatically in this area.
>
>
>Where did I say that?
>
>I said there are differences between males and females (which aren't only culturally determined) and you're assuming that that means I see women as male property and living punch bags?

nah, i was joking w/ that. I wasn't really referring to the people of the waffle, moreso the arab nations that stone woman to death for having sex before marriage and other rediculous practices where woman are clearly seen as shit.

while there are some physical differences between men and women, for example i'm sure i could pummel libra to death w/ my penis alone, i no way believe women are deficient in regards to intelligience or anything that in today's age would give reason to regard them as inferior to us gents.


 
Mesh Posted: Mon Oct 20 17:09:31 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  The caste system in india, i have read many things on this, and it is horrible how are the lower castes treated.


 
FN Posted: Mon Oct 20 17:44:48 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Like I stated in my first post; it's not because there are differences between races or males/females that one of them is superior to the other.



Saying there are differences between men and women which stand of the way of total equality doesn't say anything about women being inferior to men.



It's stereotypical modern day society behaviour to automaticly assume that somebody who makes a statement like this is meaning it in a "politically incorrect" way.


 
hapless Posted: Mon Oct 20 18:37:48 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  It really does matter what one means by equal. If one means equality of oppurtunity, sure it's possible...to an extent. Men and women are different. I will never be able to have a baby, that means I'm unequal to a woman in my oppertunity to have babies. That doesn't mean she is better than me (ok, so some people think it does perhaps, who knows) but we are different. That said, an equal chance for people of each gender (and race) to compete openly based on their abilities alone is possible. However, for true equality, it must be based on merit, and not any other factor, otherwise it's charity.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Oct 20 18:43:59 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  hey, in america, a young black man can work really hard and grow up to be an adult white woman, ie. michael jackson.
now that's true equality !


 
Mesh Posted: Mon Oct 20 19:37:16 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>hey, in america, a young black man can work really hard and grow up to be an adult white woman, ie. michael jackson.
>now that's true equality !


Yep, sure is


 
libra Posted: Mon Oct 20 19:47:15 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:
>
>while there are some physical differences between men and women, for example i'm sure i could pummel libra to death w/ my penis alone, i no way believe women are deficient in regards to intelligience or anything that in today's age would give reason to regard them as inferior to us gents.

no one is allowed to pummel me to death, especially with their penises.


 
Mesh Posted: Mon Oct 20 20:07:51 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  libra said:
>Asswipe said:
>>
>>while there are some physical differences between men and women, for example i'm sure i could pummel libra to death w/ my penis alone, i no way believe women are deficient in regards to intelligience or anything that in today's age would give reason to regard them as inferior to us gents.
>
>no one is allowed to pummel me to death, especially with their penises.

hmmmmm. libra typed penis. for some reason i found that vary funny :P


 
libra Posted: Mon Oct 20 20:56:21 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  meshuggah said:
>
>hmmmmm. libra typed penis. for some reason i found that vary funny :P

hahaha, you guys treat me almost exactly the way my closest friends do...its so strange...


 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Oct 20 21:15:53 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  actually if what you mean by "equal" is to put women and men on the same level, both socially and economically, then yes it is not only possible, but i think we are well on the way towards achieving that now. of course there will always be stupid people, but they will be in the minority.
i think we will achieve this in my lifetime. at least i hope so.



 
Dancer Posted: Mon Oct 20 21:39:08 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  depending on which country you come from. at least from what i see here in my country, it is possible. it is possible in china too.. but it is not possible in the arab world. they are still practising honour killings there. unbelievable.


 
sweet p Posted: Tue Oct 21 00:06:50 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>actually if what you mean by "equal" is to put women and men on the same level, both socially and economically, then yes it is not only possible, but i think we are well on the way towards achieving that now. of course there will always be stupid people, but they will be in the minority.
>i think we will achieve this in my lifetime. at least i hope so.
>

heh I agree very much with this....and that women smell very nice : ). What's wrong with you men...some of you are so incapable in that department.


 
addi Posted: Tue Oct 21 07:28:07 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Sweet P said:

>>
>
>heh I agree very much with this....and that women smell very nice : ). What's wrong with you men...some of you are so incapable in that department.

I hear ya sister! Some guys are so stinky, and clueless. I shower every morning (i know some of you are concerned about my hygene), and sing. It cleans the brain.
I also put on Arimus cologne, not too much, just a little. Never underestimate the power of the olfactory sense. If I'm in a crowded elevator next to a woman that smells good (like vanilla, for instance) I get weak in the knees. It takes all my self discipline not to start nibbling on her neck.

Sorry that was probably more than you wanted to know. :0


 
libra Posted: Tue Oct 21 12:45:00 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  You know, thats a question to ask that hasn't been asked yet...

What do you smell like? (name the perfume, if you don't wear perfume, then ask someone what you smell like-everyone has a smell...)


 
addi Posted: Tue Oct 21 13:35:12 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  libra said:

>
>What do you smell like? (name the perfume, if you don't wear perfume, then ask someone what you smell like-everyone has a smell...)

GTer Smells like Comment

Libra Kelp and clams Ahhh the beach

Hif Chickens What else?

SweetP V8 juice Earthy,but spicey

Addi Sheep no comment

Mesh stale beer drives women crazy


Ant crude oil manly, but slick!

mat_j toilet water blame Bush

Chris peacock sweat do they sweat?



at work ! gotta go. please add more


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Oct 21 13:42:35 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  i wish i smelled like libra, cuz that would mean that i got to rub myself all over her . .yummy !



 
libra Posted: Tue Oct 21 14:50:10 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  i smell like the beach? the beach smell gross...kelp? clams? i hate clams...thats ok tho addi, i actually probably smell kind of like freesias, cause that's the lotion i have...


 
addi Posted: Tue Oct 21 15:30:50 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  libra said:
>i smell like the beach? the beach smell gross...kelp? clams? i hate clams...thats ok tho addi, i actually probably smell kind of like freesias, cause that's the lotion i have...

I know this may come as a shock to you, but I have no idea what you smell like. Was just having a little fun. Notice I said I smelled like sheep. : )

I have no idea what freesias are. Flower?


 
Mesh Posted: Tue Oct 21 16:54:47 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
 
>heh I agree very much with this....and that women smell very nice : ). What's wrong with you men...some of you are so incapable in that department.


I smell good, all the time


 
Mesh Posted: Tue Oct 21 16:56:07 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
 
>
>I hear ya sister! Some guys are so stinky, and clueless. I shower every morning (i know some of you are concerned about my hygene), and sing. It cleans the brain.
>I also put on Arimus cologne, not too much, just a little. Never underestimate the power of the olfactory sense. If I'm in a crowded elevator next to a woman that smells good (like vanilla, for instance) I get weak in the knees. It takes all my self discipline not to start nibbling on her neck.



I take two shower a day. and put on a nice cologne i have found, Curve for men.


 
libra Posted: Tue Oct 21 18:07:57 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  meshuggah said:
>
>I take two shower a day. and put on a nice cologne i have found, Curve for men.

ooo, curve does smell good...


 
libra Posted: Tue Oct 21 18:09:10 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>I know this may come as a shock to you, but I have no idea what you smell like. Was just having a little fun. Notice I said I smelled like sheep. : )
>
>I have no idea what freesias are. Flower?

i know you were just joking, yes freesias are flowers, they're white or yellow or purple usually, they come up in the spring, they smell really good...


 
addi Posted: Tue Oct 21 22:03:09 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  libra said:

>
>yes freesias are flowers, they're white or yellow or purple usually, they come up in the spring, they smell really good...

well it's a darn good thing there aren't any around here. Otherwise every time I smelled one I'd think, "Ahhh, Libra!", and that just wouldn't look good. lol


 
libra Posted: Tue Oct 21 23:24:32 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>libra said:
>
>>
>>yes freesias are flowers, they're white or yellow or purple usually, they come up in the spring, they smell really good...
>
>well it's a darn good thing there aren't any around here. Otherwise every time I smelled one I'd think, "Ahhh, Libra!", and that just wouldn't look good. lol


hehe


 
Kira Posted: Tue Oct 21 23:37:55 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Sailovzi smells like a sweetly surprising spicy summer wind! I on the other hand..

I would guess I usually smell like soap and clean sheets, something plain like that. Not today though, today I smelled like my dog's shampoo. Fun.


 
libra Posted: Wed Oct 22 01:23:56 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  yea, dog shampoo is not fun. it seems like it should be lethal. we have this green stuff that probably eats away at your skin...but luckily my dogs are small and short haired, so they dont need much bathing


 
sweet p Posted: Wed Oct 22 16:41:07 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:

>SweetP V8 juice Earthy,but spicey

I've always wanted to smell like tomatoes, carrots, beets, celery, watercress...all in ONE : )

But really, I am all veggied out...I smell more like my anti-perspirant and shampoo and polo sport...
Though I will amdit that I prefer the smell of men's deodorant.

Some boys smell like maple syrup...i like that.




 
addi Posted: Wed Oct 22 17:19:33 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Sweet P said:

>
>Some boys smell like maple syrup...i like that.

do you prefer Vermont or Canadian?

I think I'm going to go to work tomorrow with a little dab of maple syrup in my navel to see if it works. Heck, if it doesn't I'll just pop a couple Eggo waffles in the toaster and rub them across my belly button when no ones looking.


 
Mesh Posted: Wed Oct 22 18:31:02 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  libra said:
>yea, dog shampoo is not fun. it seems like it should be lethal. we have this green stuff that probably eats away at your skin...but luckily my dogs are small and short haired, so they dont need much bathing


I like dog shampoo smells


 
Cytherean Posted: Wed Oct 22 23:11:25 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  bluellama said:
>Christophe said:

>I do agree with you there...equallity is against our nature, but I beleive that equallity is possible. To conform, but make sure no one is discriminated against....there is a possiblibly

There is a possibility but not much of a probability. Equality is more of an ideal, like socialism or perhaps even Utopianism. Its good to speculate, it's good to idealize. That's how ideas are born. Nevertheless, we should never lose sight of reality, and the harsh truth of things. We must suppose, within the boundaries of reason and prudence to the preservation of the state. I'm not advocating or condoning patriarchy or any other form of male dominance in society, I'm merely reiterating the importance of respect for what works in society without pissing too many people off. We need understand that men and women were given, since the beginning of time, different bodily attributes in order to avail them most suitably according to their intended roles. Differences are good. The last thing we need is a short-sighted, homogenous society of universal equality. Inequality does not necessarily mean degradation of a lesser valued group against a dominant one, as feminists would tell you. We need to remember our roles. They aren't absolute by any means, but let's face it, some professions are suited for specific genders. Will there be exceptions? Of course, there always are. But as a general principle, gender roles exist and shouldn't necessarily be broken just to prove a moot point or to eliminate some sexual insecurity if its going to be to society's detriment.

-Cytherean


 
addi Posted: Thu Oct 23 08:09:20 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Cytherean said:

> We need to remember our roles.

Please excuse me if I pull a "mesh" here and get your gender wrong (sorry, mesh lol). I haven't seen enough posts from you to be sure, but I'm taking a wild guess that you're female from your online name.

Who defines these roles? Not that long ago white southerners were saying that same thing to blacks, "Please remember your role, N****er!" I think I actually agree with you about differences not necessarily equating to inequality, but a hard look has to given to the "roles" individuals find themselves in. Are they cultural/society based roles, or in my case, does my role as a male transcend cultural time constraints and fit into some universal role?


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Oct 23 08:27:19 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Cytherean said:
We need understand that men and women were given, since the beginning of time, different bodily attributes in order to avail them most suitably according to their intended roles. Differences are good. The last thing we need is a short-sighted, homogenous society of universal equality. Inequality does not necessarily mean degradation of a lesser valued group against a dominant one, as feminists would tell you. We need to remember our roles.

other than the reproductive organs, the main bodily attribute men and women are given is the human brain. that is the only thing that keeps us from being at the bottom of the food chain. and that is why equality is attainable and the inequalities that occur today are only cultural and on their way out.
"we need to remember our roles" ?
sounds like a line uttered by a toothless clown in a white sheet and a burning cross.
i know that's not what you meant but that's the gist of it.


 
Mesh Posted: Thu Oct 23 15:19:13 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>Cytherean said:
>
>> We need to remember our roles.
>
>Please excuse me if I pull a "mesh" here and get your gender wrong (sorry, mesh lol).


LOL, no problem :)


 
baristapro Posted: Fri Oct 24 20:29:20 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  meshuggah said:
>The caste system in india, i have read many things on this, and it is horrible how are the lower castes treated.

Oh you don't think that exists here in good ole' liberated America? Oh God! Look around you, it happens everyday. People are judged simply by looks, style, mannerisms. Er...I have to gather my thoughts for a moment.

Okay.

Equality is not only possible, but already there. It's just that people don't practice the said politics behind it. People are equal, they just aren't treated equally. Gender equality, race equality, class equality, all of these things are already existent.
It's true that men and women are different, chemically and physically, but we need to be able to throw away these gender based stereotypes that are clouding our view of the big picture; No matter what your gender, or sexual preference, you are still human. And doesnt that, in of itself, make you equal to another person?

Race, same exact thing. The color of your skin does not determine who you are. It does not define you as a person, and who cares that you don't look the same as someone else? Does it make you less of a person because you have black skin, brown skin, yellow, white, tan, blue, gold, rainbow? Or does it make you a better person because you have creamy skin tones, with blonde hair and blue eyes?

Who made up the rule that "he who dies with the most toys wins"? And why is it that a man who begs for quarters is treated as a piece of shit, or worse, non existent? (The caste system my dear. Bums, crack heads and poverty stricken homeless people are the untouchables of America) And a man in a business suit can walk into a place and not be thrown out, or treated as less of a person.

I watch people every day beg for change. I watch people beg for cigarettes, and money for booze, drugs, a sandwich...Necessities in some areas.
Who was so mighty and pious as to say that these people are not equal to those who drive a mercedes benz? They breathe the same air, the walk the same earth, the speak the same language. These people all had mother's, father's, cousins, and generations going back to the very first person who sucked in breath from the air.

Who is to determine the quality of life, and what makes someone better then another? That is such a White Christian Upper/Middle Class viewpoint. And what makes these people so great? I mean really, how are these people so much better?

People are equal. They may not have the same clothing, lifestyle, education or values as someone else, but that does not mean that they are less of a person.
To say that people are not equal is only valid if you say that no person is equal, thus negating the thought, and making everyone equal in their non-equality. Er...it makes sense to me.




 
baristapro Posted: Fri Oct 24 20:33:39 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Oh and for the record, I smell like oranges and coffee.

My boyfriend always smells like curry.


 
Cytherean Posted: Mon Oct 27 17:55:42 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>Who defines these roles? Are they cultural/society based roles, or in my case, does my role as a male transcend cultural time constraints and fit into some universal role?

>"we need to remember our roles" ?
sounds like a line uttered by a toothless clown in a white sheet and a burning cross.

Now that's a bit extreme don't you think?

I was not implying any racially or discriminatory opinion when I used the phrase "we need to remember our roles." I meant only that we need to be mindful of our position as coexistent human beings in a world where genders differ physically and emotionally, yielding an importance of doing what benefits humanity the most. A proletarian male factory worker is not going to serve society as well in a secretary position with a massive corporation that is held by a female with a business degree. Likewise, an intellectual female artist would generally be worthless in a cutthroat business profession like a CEO. We should perform as well and be as well-educated as possible in whatever position we hold in society regardless of gender and race. Positions and "roles," as I may have unwisely referred to them as, should be determined by educational merit, vocational proficiency, and all the other standardized bullshit that we dillute ourselves with.

Moreover, our "roles", as far as business and worldly affairs are concerned in a capitalistic system such as ours, are defined by society. There are other, more important "roles" that we define ourselves as individuals. We are not our jobs, our clothes, our companies, our cars, our cosmetics, our mass-produced possessions. We are human beings. We are WHO we are, not WHAT we are, to be subjective. If I had it my way, a widespread revolution would lead to the dissolution of the consumer-culture and modern civilization as we know it. We would embrace agriculture not industry. We would PRODUCE, and not consume. Spiritualism would replace materialism. Instead of a hollow, gluttonous, lusting wraith man would be a spiritually acute, content, autonomous farmer. Clusters of individuals. The household would be restored as the primary unit of production. I speak of the primitive agrarian ideal. I speak of Rousseauism, and the glorification of a simple and natural existence. Civilization has corrupted us. And since its advent, man has forsook the hills and the forests for the towering structures and smokestacks of the city. Civilization, the Industrial Revolution, the mechanization of labor, mass-production and the birth of the consumer-culture has made us into materialists and causticized our perspectives. I say we reattach ourselves to nature. Restablish the symbiotic tie to nature that once existed in the days of the wandering nomad and the hunter/gatherer.

just thoughts...



 
Cytherean Posted: Mon Oct 27 21:29:45 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  In keeping with the trend of sharing what we smell like with the forum, I can honestly say that I smell like sunscreen.


 
baristapro Posted: Tue Oct 28 00:54:34 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Cytherean,


AMEN!!!!


 
addi Posted: Tue Oct 28 07:35:45 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Cytherean said:
>addison said:

>
>>"we need to remember our roles" ?
>sounds like a line uttered by a toothless clown in a white sheet and a burning cross.
>
>Now that's a bit extreme don't you think?

That's Hifs response, not mine. I write plenty of things worthy of disagreeing with. I don't need a staunch republicans thoughts attributed to me. :) (hugs, Hif)

BTW I add a second Amen to your response. Very thoughtful.



 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Oct 28 08:03:32 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Cytherean said:
>addison said:
>>Who defines these roles? Are they cultural/society based roles, or in my case, does my role as a male transcend cultural time constraints and fit into some universal role?
>
>>"we need to remember our roles" ?
>sounds like a line uttered by a toothless clown in a white sheet and a burning cross.
>
>Now that's a bit extreme don't you think?
>
>I was not implying any racially or discriminatory opinion when I used the phrase "we need to remember our roles." I meant only that we need to be mindful of our position as coexistent human beings in a world where genders differ physically and emotionally, yielding an importance of doing what benefits humanity the most. A proletarian male factory worker is not going to serve society as well in a secretary position with a massive corporation that is held by a female with a business degree. Likewise, an intellectual female artist would generally be worthless in a cutthroat business profession like a CEO. We should perform as well and be as well-educated as possible in whatever position we hold in society regardless of gender and race. Positions and "roles," as I may have unwisely referred to them as, should be determined by educational merit, vocational proficiency, and all the other standardized bullshit that we dillute ourselves with.

what about the proletarian male factory worker who goes to night school and becomes the elementary school teacher for your children. is he abandoning his role ? or the female artist who is CEO of her own company to market her art ? which role is hers ?

>Moreover, our "roles", as far as business and worldly affairs are concerned in a capitalistic system such as ours, are defined by society. There are other, more important "roles" that we define ourselves as individuals. We are not our jobs, our clothes, our companies, our cars, our cosmetics, our mass-produced possessions. We are human beings. We are WHO we are, not WHAT we are, to be subjective. If I had it my way, a widespread revolution would lead to the dissolution of the consumer-culture and modern civilization as we know it. We would embrace agriculture not industry. We would PRODUCE, and not consume. Spiritualism would replace materialism. Instead of a hollow, gluttonous, lusting wraith man would be a spiritually acute, content, autonomous farmer. Clusters of individuals. The household would be restored as the primary unit of production. I speak of the primitive agrarian ideal. I speak of Rousseauism, and the glorification of a simple and natural existence. Civilization has corrupted us. And since its advent, man has forsook the hills and the forests for the towering structures and smokestacks of the city. Civilization, the Industrial Revolution, the mechanization of labor, mass-production and the birth of the consumer-culture has made us into materialists and causticized our perspectives. I say we reattach ourselves to nature. Restablish the symbiotic tie to nature that once existed in the days of the wandering nomad and the hunter/gatherer.
>
>just thoughts...

you forget that while we are a nation of consumers, we also produce more than the rest of the world combined. we are a nation of producers.
you seem to be caught up in the romantic idea of living in harmony with nature much like the native american hunter gatherers. that's a nice notion but you would miss antibiotics and soap for sure.
>


 
Cytherean Posted: Tue Oct 28 15:25:25 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  >ifihadahif said:

>what about the proletarian male factory worker who goes to night school and becomes the elementary school teacher for your children. is he abandoning his role ? or the female artist who is CEO of her own company to market her art ? which role is hers ?

Why are you using specifics to support your point? Your just speculating and supposing, that doesn't help your case. I respect the fact that there are exceptions, but I'm making broad observations based on what I see in my limited sphere of influence and experience. I'm generalizing. I thought I established that with the context clues of my long elaboration. Forgive me if I did not make that apparent.


>you forget that while we are a nation of consumers, we also produce more than the rest of the world combined. we are a nation of producers.
>you seem to be caught up in the romantic idea of living in harmony with nature much like the native american hunter gatherers. that's a nice notion but you would miss antibiotics and soap for sure.

I'm talking about exclusive production of natural, biological, agricultural crop. Not plastics or steel or synthetic chemicals. Besides, a large amount of what we produce in this country is environmentally expensive and biohazardous. There's a difference between produce and production :) As for missing the comforts of advanced civilization, your probably right. But that is the challenge. I know in my case, if civilization were to collapse and this new sytem to be embraced, I would have to live in a cave for the rest of my life or die (I happen to have photosensitivity and lupus). But is that a sacrifice that I'm willing to make for the rest of humanity? I don't know, and probably will never know, however, I can enjoy the idea can't I? Afterall, it was just an idea. Just thoughts. Just my romantic idealism seeping out.


 
Cytherean Posted: Tue Oct 28 15:55:02 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
 
>That's Hifs response, not mine. I write plenty of things worthy of disagreeing with. I don't need a staunch republicans thoughts attributed to me. :) (hugs, Hif)

I know, I was trying to respond to both of you in the same box. I probably should have specified with your names, sorry.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Oct 28 16:16:26 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  hey, addie thinks i'm staunch. cool !


 



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