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Iran has just clarified the Middle East
ifihadahif Posted: Wed Dec 31 11:29:42 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Iran clarifies the Middle East
Dennis Prager


December 30, 2003

If you want to understand the Middle East conflict, Iran has just provided all you need to know.

A massive earthquake kills between 20,000 and 40,000 Iranians, and the government of Iran announces that help is welcome from every country in the world . . . except Israel.

This little-reported news item is of great significance. It begs commentary.

Israel not only has the world's most experienced crews in quickly finding survivors in bombed out buildings, it is also a mere two-hour flight from Iran. In other words, no country in the world would come close to Israel in its ability to save Iranian lives quickly.

But none of this means anything to the rulers of Iran. The Islamic government of Iran has announced to the world that it is better for fellow countrymen and fellow Muslims -- men, women and children -- to die buried under rubble than to be saved by a Jew from Israel.

That is how deep the hatred of Israel and Jews is in much of the Muslim world.

Hundreds of millions of Muslims -- Arab and non-Arab, Sunni and Shi'a -- hate Israel more than they love life. Leaders of the Palestinian terror organization Hamas repeatedly state, "We love death more than the Jews love life." And now, Iran announces that it is better for a Muslim to asphyxiate under the earth than be rescued by a Jew from Israel.

Naive Westerners -- which includes most academics, intellectuals, members of the international news media, and nearly all others on the Left -- refuse to acknowledge the uniqueness of the Arab/Muslim hatred of Israel and Jews. Yet, there is no hatred in the world analogous to it. Not since the Nazi hatred of Jews has humanity witnessed such hate.

That is why finding survivors from earthquakes, creating a Palestinian state and life itself are all far less important in much of the Islamic and Arab worlds than killing Jews and destroying the little Jewish state.

That is why Arab newspapers run articles by Arab professors describing how Jews butcher non-Jewish children to use their blood for holiday meals.

That is why Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad could get a standing ovation from the heads of every Muslim country when he told them "the Jews rule the world by proxy."

That is why Palestinian parents celebrate the suicide terror of their sons -- the joy of killing Israeli families far outweighs the pain of the death of their child.

Western naifs like to believe platitudes such as "Deep down, all people are really the same," "All people want peace," and the great untruth of multiculturalism that no culture is morally superior to another. That is why they choose not to face the truth about the Nazi-like hatred that permeates the Arab/Muslim world and the consequent moral gulf that exists between it and Israel. It shatters too many of their illusions.

Surely the Iranian refusal of rescuers from the Jewish state ought to help all these people acknowledge the unique hatred that is at the root of the Arab-Israeli dispute and recognize that it is therefore a conflict unlike any other on earth.

So, too, the immediate and sincere Israeli offer of rescuers to Iran should make the moral gulf between Israel and its enemies as clear as day. Despite the fact that Iran is the greatest backer of anti-Israel (and anti-American) terror and despite the fact that Iran repeatedly declares that Israel must be annihilated (in other words, seeks a second Jewish Holocaust), Israel offered to send its people to save Iranian lives.

The two reactions -- Iran's preference for Iranian deaths to Israeli help and the Jewish state's instinctive offer to help save Iranian lives -- ought to be enough anyone needs to understand the source of the Middle East conflict. But they won't. Because those who are anti-Israel or "evenhanded" are not so because of the facts, but despite them.





 
addi Posted: Wed Dec 31 12:39:50 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>
> Israel not only has the world's most experienced crews in quickly finding survivors in bombed out buildings, it is also a mere two-hour flight from Iran. In other words, no country in the world would come close to Israel in its ability to save Iranian lives quickly.
Interesting...

> But none of this means anything to the rulers of Iran. The Islamic government of Iran has announced to the world that it is better for fellow countrymen and fellow Muslims -- men, women and children -- to die buried under rubble than to be saved by a Jew from Israel.

Okay, I need to read more...

>
> Hundreds of millions of Muslims -- Arab and non-Arab, Sunni and Shi'a -- hate Israel more than they love life. Leaders of the Palestinian terror organization Hamas repeatedly state, "We love death more than the Jews love life." And now, Iran announces that it is better for a Muslim to asphyxiate under the earth than be rescued by a Jew from Israel.

This guys making sense...

> Naive Westerners -- which includes most academics, intellectuals, members of the international news media, and nearly all others on the Left -- refuse to acknowledge the uniqueness of the Arab/Muslim hatred of Israel and Jews.

Oops, lost me : (
"most academics, intellectuals" sadly falls into the category of almost every article you repost here. Bombastic overgeneralization from a politically conservative writer. Sad thing is the guy might have some valid points to make, but when he resorts to below the belt tactics like this even his "valid" statements become suspect because his true agenda behind the story has been made:
liberals are morons because they don't understand the unique hatred the muslims have for jews. I guess right wing conservatives have a lock on that one, eh? That's tantamount to Christophe justifying a hatred for ALL Americans because he believes we all have the same beliefs as Bush. Silliness that I'd expect to read in the National Enquirer



 
socialyD Posted: Wed Dec 31 12:44:37 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I took a history of world through religions course in college. It was said that the root of the Jewish/Muslum conflict was found in the bible.
According to my Prof. the conflict originated in the story of Abraham and Sarah. Abraham was supposed to be the father of Jews. God promised Abraham a son but Sarah was barren so Sarah gave Abraham her servant so that they could have a son that would be Sarah and Abraham's. Abraham and the servant did have child who was named Ishmal (? i think. Later when God fufilled his promise and Sarah became pregnant and had Isacc (?) she became jealous of her servants son and told Abraham to remove them. Abraham did cast them out and God came to the servant and her son and told him that he would be the father of a great nation - Islam.

And therefor the Islamics hates the Isrealities.

I think it's kind of a neat story.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Wed Dec 31 13:04:20 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>ifihadahif said:
>
>>
>> Israel not only has the world's most experienced crews in quickly finding survivors in bombed out buildings, it is also a mere two-hour flight from Iran. In other words, no country in the world would come close to Israel in its ability to save Iranian lives quickly.
>Interesting...
>
>> But none of this means anything to the rulers of Iran. The Islamic government of Iran has announced to the world that it is better for fellow countrymen and fellow Muslims -- men, women and children -- to die buried under rubble than to be saved by a Jew from Israel.
>
>Okay, I need to read more...
>
>>
>> Hundreds of millions of Muslims -- Arab and non-Arab, Sunni and Shi'a -- hate Israel more than they love life. Leaders of the Palestinian terror organization Hamas repeatedly state, "We love death more than the Jews love life." And now, Iran announces that it is better for a Muslim to asphyxiate under the earth than be rescued by a Jew from Israel.
>
>This guys making sense...
>
>> Naive Westerners -- which includes most academics, intellectuals, members of the international news media, and nearly all others on the Left -- refuse to acknowledge the uniqueness of the Arab/Muslim hatred of Israel and Jews.
>
>Oops, lost me : (
> "most academics, intellectuals" sadly falls into the category of almost every article you repost here. Bombastic overgeneralization from a politically conservative writer. Sad thing is the guy might have some valid points to make, but when he resorts to below the belt tactics like this even his "valid" statements become suspect because his true agenda behind the story has been made:
> liberals are morons because they don't understand the unique hatred the muslims have for jews. I guess right wing conservatives have a lock on that one, eh? That's tantamount to Christophe justifying a hatred for ALL Americans because he believes we all have the same beliefs as Bush. Silliness that I'd expect to read in the National Enquirer

that's an opinion that the author is entitled to have. i would invite you to read the entire article and refute anything he has to say.
i would tend to agree with him that "most academics, intellectuals, members of the international news media, and nearly all others on the Left -- refuse to acknowledge this", just based on the way it is covered in the media. hell the network news won't even use the term "terrorist" or "suicide bombers" anymore. they resort to terms like "militant" and "freedom fighter". what a PC bunch of crap ! That is a product of the left. This does not mean that all liberals are morons, just that the guys in charge are morons.
>


 
addi Posted: Wed Dec 31 14:16:00 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>
>that's an opinion that the author is entitled to have. i would invite you to read the entire article and refute anything he has to say.

well of course it's an opinion the author is entitled to have. I don't disput his right to have an opinion. I'm just disputing the validity of his opinion when he makes broad overgeneralizations.
If I did a thread here and stated my opinion on some current world issue and then said, "sadly most political conservatives and right wingers are naive and can't grasp this concept" it would be stating an unverifiable opinion I hold. I guess I'd expect you to reply rather quickly requesting some factual verification of my claims. To put every conservative media source, politician, and voter into the same demeaning category wouldn't be something I could substantiate with facts. You would have a valid dispute with my opinion. I have a valid dispute with his opinion. I'm just nitpicky that way I guess. If someone (liberal or conservative) is claiming a truth about a large group of people journalistic integrity demands that they better have verifiable facts to back up their claims. Otherwise it's nothing more than propoganda for their particular cause du jour.



 
ifihadahif Posted: Wed Dec 31 16:32:11 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>well of course it's an opinion the author is entitled to have. I don't disput his right to have an opinion. I'm just disputing the validity of his opinion when he makes broad overgeneralizations.
>If I did a thread here and stated my opinion on some current world issue and then said, "sadly most political conservatives and right wingers are naive and can't grasp this concept" it would be stating an unverifiable opinion I hold. I guess I'd expect you to reply rather quickly requesting some factual verification of my claims. To put every conservative media source, politician, and voter into the same demeaning category wouldn't be something I could substantiate with facts. You would have a valid dispute with my opinion. I have a valid dispute with his opinion. I'm just nitpicky that way I guess. If someone (liberal or conservative) is claiming a truth about a large group of people journalistic integrity demands that they better have verifiable facts to back up their claims.

I actually did provide a couple of facts in my last post

Otherwise it's nothing more than propoganda for their particular cause du jour.

so what did you think of the essay as a whole ?
or did you flunk the guy for one sentence ?


 
Asswipe Posted: Wed Dec 31 17:06:20 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  the question that comes to my mind after reading the whole thing is "why?" and "if this is all true, what do you intend we do about it?"

I don't think this article even scratches the surface of the truth here. what is behind all of the hatred? I don't think it can all be from 9,000 years ago w/ a brotherly feud between isaac and ishmal.

basically all of the blame was thrown at the iranians. they have ugly propaganda and shit where they say jews kill un-jew children? i'm gonna say it takes two to tango. either the jews did something to piss off the iranians and they want revenge OR the iranians are interested in something the jews have. does the article touch on the possible root of the problem or is it just calling the iranians devil worshippers?

some of us fail to believe blind hatred can exist w/ out reason for it to exist.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Wed Dec 31 17:23:10 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  The whole point of the essay is that the "elite media" of the world places the jew hating arabs on the same moral ground as the jews themselves, and that is just PC bullshit.
If Israel suffered a natural catastrophe that killed 50,000 of their citizens, do you think that iran would offer assistance ? ha ! They would be dancing in the streets.
That is the difference between the two factions and that is what the author was trying to illustrate.


 
Asswipe Posted: Wed Dec 31 17:32:00 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  in all your experience on this world you really can't believe blind hatred for a person or group can exist in just a one way street. there are reasons to hate someone, and no logical reasons for hate were expressed in this article.

the author pointed out these "facts" showing where and how iran has blindly hated the jews, but as you've said in the past, facts can be manipulated, some overstressed and others left out, in order to prove a point. truth then, comes from principles, something this author completely disregarded.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Wed Dec 31 17:38:27 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:
>in all your experience on this world you really can't believe blind hatred for a person or group can exist in just a one way street. there are reasons to hate someone, and no logical reasons for hate were expressed in this article.
>
>the author pointed out these "facts" showing where and how iran has blindly hated the jews, but as you've said in the past, facts can be manipulated, some overstressed and others left out, in order to prove a point. truth then, comes from principles, something this author completely disregarded.

The reasons for the hate are not important anymore. none of the people alive today had anything to do with it.
the whole article was about morality.
hate exists all over the world today, but not like this. Even at the height of the cold war, Russia and America offered and accepted assistance from each other during disasters. This is what the author was trying to illustrate.


 
Malik Posted: Wed Dec 31 17:48:35 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Wow, people are racist. People don't like each other. People have prejudices against other countries. People sometimes don't along.

Hate exists, and we shouldn't be surprised to see countries who are fundamentally against each other sending little personal attacks to other countries.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Wed Dec 31 17:54:39 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Malik said:
>Wow, people are racist. People don't like each other. People have prejudices against other countries. People sometimes don't along.
>
>Hate exists, and we shouldn't be surprised to see countries who are fundamentally against each other sending little personal attacks to other countries.

you're missing the whole point.
racism and hatred are part of human nature and always have been, but nowhere does this kind of hatred exist.
where do you know of hatred that runs so deep you would rather have your sons and daughters dying than to accept help from someone ?
We certainly have racism and hatred here in america, but on 9/11, we pulled together, all of us, to help each other out.
it's a different kind of hatred over there and you just cannot continue to put the arabs/palestinians on the same moral ground as the israelies.


 
marsi Posted: Wed Dec 31 19:10:37 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  This is not about racism it's about religion.
And Asswipe blind hatred can exist in the name of religion.
And those muslim terrorists that kill people do it in the name of their god. And this is terrible.
Vladimir Bartol wrote (in the year 1938) a novel Alamut. I think it was translated in english.
Based on the actual historical events, the story of Alamut is set in northern Persia (today's Iran) in 1092. Hassan Ibn Saba, known as the "old man of the mountain", is a demonic and charismatic leader of Assassins, a Persian sect of Ismailis. In his fortified castle - Eagle's Nest - of Alamut, he teaches his faithful fedayeen blind obedience and trains them to become "live daggers" in order to fight a holy war against Seldjuk Turks that rule Iran. He cunningly turns them into fanatics: with hashish and beautiful girls in harem he gives them an illusion of paradise, which is promised to brave martyrs. Usurping the world's great religions and philosophies for his own gain, Hassan implants in his followers spiritual yearnings and delusions, manipulating them in order to carry out a plan of mass destruction.



 
Asswipe Posted: Wed Dec 31 19:52:59 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  yes, as our high school history teachers tell us, hatred can exist because of religion. but what is it about the religion that makes people hate someone of a different religion?

in the old testament, God promised Abraham much land and to be the father of many nations. for the jews, it goes back to this. God promised them land and they want land, not just because God promised them it, but because land allows them to flourish. so for the jews, its not really about religion, its about land.

I'm not familiar w/ the Islamic teachings and why they are pissed off. maybe i'll have a better understanding of it after reading hif's copy/paste job he pulled in a new topic, but that has to wait till tomorrow 'cause i must go get trashed. Happy New Year

but oh yes, no one will ever say "our god wants us to kill these people so we will kill them", there are reasons for it all.

yeah marsi your story can be used as evidance of something... quite reliable writing a story about something 1000 years ago.

bottom line is this, people hate each other for very few reasons. 1. a struggle of power and 2. justice, ie revenge for some wrong doing. all else is just clutter


 
addi Posted: Wed Dec 31 22:31:05 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>or did you flunk the guy for one sentence ?

I flunked the guy for one sentence.

Example:
Hif is brilliant. Gters are all very sexy. THE HOLOCAUST NEVER HAPPENED. I live in Georgia.

The upper case sentence is only one sentence, but should be enough for any rational person to realize that the author is very biased and everything he writes should be scrutinized closely.

Hapy New Year, Dudes and Dudettes



 
Malik Posted: Thu Jan 1 03:39:52 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Right on, addison.

*raises addi's post to the 10th power*




 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Jan 1 09:04:04 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>ifihadahif said:
>
>>or did you flunk the guy for one sentence ?
>
>I flunked the guy for one sentence.
>
>Example:
>Hif is brilliant. Gters are all very sexy. THE HOLOCAUST NEVER HAPPENED. I live in Georgia.
>
>The upper case sentence is only one sentence, but should be enough for any rational person to realize that the author is very biased and everything he writes should be scrutinized closely.
>
>Hapy New Year, Dudes and Dudettes

Isn't saying the holocaust never happened just a little different than expressing an opinion ?
and did I or did I not provide evidence that his opinion might be correct ? Go ahead and scrutinize his writings, that's what it's there for.
What else did he say that was suspect in your opinion ?
>


 
addi Posted: Thu Jan 1 09:55:29 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  saying the holocaust never happened is an opinion some people hold, even though it's referring to a historical event.
I guess what it boils down to is that I don't see any positive purpose in writing it, except to fan the flames of Americans who already are filled with hate for anything muslim.
I already knew there is a bitter hatred between the jews and muslims in that area. Did I need to know that the jews hate the muslims, but the muslims really really really hate the jews? What purpose does it serve to categorize hundreds of millions of muslims into irrational jew haters? And then to throw in that the liberals (academics, intellectuals, and media) don't comprehend this fact like the smart conservatives do. Is he trying to dehumanize these muslims making it justifiable for us to think of them as something less than human, and therefore okay to hate and kill?

IMO the Israelies need to give to the Palestinians a place to live and get the hell out of west bank settlements. The muslims need to learn that the nation of Israel has a right to exist and stop their terrorist actions against jews. They don't have to love each other, just learn to live next to each other. I scratch my head that such a simple concept seems so impossible to make a reality. Both sides are guilty of horrible atrosities and making one side out to be the guys in white hats, and the other in black hats seems kinda counterproductive to me.



 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Jan 1 09:59:53 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>saying the holocaust never happened is an opinion some people hold, even though it's referring to a historical event.
>I guess what it boils down to is that I don't see any positive purpose in writing it, except to fan the flames of Americans who already are filled with hate for anything muslim.
>I already knew there is a bitter hatred between the jews and muslims in that area. Did I need to know that the jews hate the muslims, but the muslims really really really hate the jews? What purpose does it serve to categorize hundreds of millions of muslims into irrational jew haters? And then to throw in that the liberals (academics, intellectuals, and media) don't comprehend this fact like the smart conservatives do. Is he trying to dehumanize these muslims making it justifiable for us to think of them as something less than human, and therefore okay to hate and kill?
>
>IMO the Israelies need to give to the Palestinians a place to live and get the hell out of west bank settlements. The muslims need to learn that the nation of Israel has a right to exist and stop their terrorist actions against jews. They don't have to love each other, just learn to live next to each other. I scratch my head that such a simple concept seems so impossible to make a reality. Both sides are guilty of horrible atrosities and making one side out to be the guys in white hats, and the other in black hats seems kinda counterproductive to me.

and you would put them both on the same moral ground ?


 
addi Posted: Thu Jan 1 10:49:38 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>and you would put them both on the same moral ground ?
You're trying to bait me here, hif. Good one lol
Is a suicide bomber that kills Israelies a worse act than an Israeli soldier killing a palestinian child caught in crossfire? I guess I'll sidestep that and leave it for a higher being to determine. I do feel that both sides are on shakey moral ground though. The tit for tat mentality that's been perpetuated for decades has long since become absurd and beyond reason.
Humans are ignorant, and left to our own devices will eventually destroy all that is pure and good in this world. It's the one thing all civilizations and cultures throughout recorded history have in common.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Jan 1 11:32:19 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>ifihadahif said:
>
>>and you would put them both on the same moral ground ?
>You're trying to bait me here, hif. Good one lol
>Is a suicide bomber that kills Israelies a worse act than an Israeli soldier killing a palestinian child caught in crossfire? I guess I'll sidestep that and leave it for a higher being to determine. I do feel that both sides are on shakey moral ground though. The tit for tat mentality that's been perpetuated for decades has long since become absurd and beyond reason.
>Humans are ignorant, and left to our own devices will eventually destroy all that is pure and good in this world. It's the one thing all civilizations and cultures throughout recorded history have in common.

That is exactly what the article is trying to convey and you have sidestepped it quite nicely.
As a matter of policy, the israelis have dealt out their "atrocities" in self defense.
Where do you ever see Israel target civilian women and children on purpose?
Where in Israel will you read about arabs killing jewish children and using their blood to make bread ?
Where in Israel will you find schools and universities that teach hatred instead of math and history ?
It simply doesn't exist.
The Palestinians have no legitimate historical claim to a homeland, yet they have been offered one and they refused it. Why ? Because Mr. Arafat new that if he accepted their offer, that his people would have him killed.
Their goal is not a homeland, but the destruction of Israel.
The Palestinians are but a pawn for the rest of the arab world to use against the jews.


 
addi Posted: Thu Jan 1 12:38:19 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>
>That is exactly what the article is trying to convey and you have sidestepped it quite nicely.

Okay, now addi's pissed.
I didn't sidestep shit. I sidestepped your question on the morality of killing.
Here's the ultimate difference between you and I hif. You see the world in black and white. You are not comfortable seeing it any other way. Your brain cannot deal and process it any other way. You (conservatives) have to have order and simplicity to function, even if it means sacrificing the truth.
The world is shades of gray. SHOCKER!It can't be neatly packaged into the Israelies are right and the muslims are wrong. There's complexities and variables that defy simplistic conclusions to every subject of importance in the world today, from the environment, to religion, to foreign policy, to cultural differences. Understanding and accepting these paradoxes is what ultimately separates you and I. I don't like not having all the answers, but I understand that's the way of the world. You and your right wing friends can not deal with the discrepancies, duality, and complexity of our human condition and therefore you reject the uncertainty of gray and embrance the simplicity and clarity of black and white. It makes for an orderly and understandable world, but it carries the price of living in a shadow of the way life really is. This outlook on life is what makes you and I look at exactly the same event and come to two totally different conclusions.
I sincerely like you hif, but we will always be walking down two separate paths on life's journey because I refuse to accept oversimplistic answers to complex problems, even if it means that I have to live with the confusion and uncertainty that my path carries with it.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Jan 1 12:55:00 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>ifihadahif said:
>
>>
>>That is exactly what the article is trying to convey and you have sidestepped it quite nicely.
>
>Okay, now addi's pissed.
>I didn't sidestep shit. I sidestepped your question on the morality of killing.
>Here's the ultimate difference between you and I hif. You see the world in black and white. You are not comfortable seeing it any other way. Your brain cannot deal and process it any other way. You (conservatives) have to have order and simplicity to function, even if it means sacrificing the truth.
> The world is shades of gray. SHOCKER!It can't be neatly packaged into the Israelies are right and the muslims are wrong. There's complexities and variables that defy simplistic conclusions to every subject of importance in the world today, from the environment, to religion, to foreign policy, to cultural differences. Understanding and accepting these paradoxes is what ultimately separates you and I. I don't like not having all the answers, but I understand that's the way of the world. You and your right wing friends can not deal with the discrepancies, duality, and complexity of our human condition and therefore you reject the uncertainty of gray and embrance the simplicity and clarity of black and white. It makes for an orderly and understandable world, but it carries the price of living in a shadow of the way life really is. This outlook on life is what makes you and I look at exactly the same event and come to two totally different conclusions.
>I sincerely like you hif, but we will always be walking down two separate paths on life's journey because I refuse to accept oversimplistic answers to complex problems, even if it means that I have to live with the confusion and uncertainty that my path carries with it.

That's cool, i sincerely believe the world needs both of us.
Democracy absolutely cannot work without a vigorous opposition to whomever is in control. I understand that.
I also believe that there are shades of grey to many stories, but not in the case of the Israeli/Palestine problem.
Sometimes you have to see right for what it is and wrong for what it is.
Killing is never a good thing, but killing for self defense is infinitely more right than killing for mere hatred.
Just look at both societies today and tell me which breeds hatred of jews from the cradle to the grave and which offered much needed assistance to those who would anhilate them.
sorry bout pissin' you off dude.



 
addi Posted: Thu Jan 1 13:42:35 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>sorry bout pissin' you off dude.
>
no worries, mate!
I vented, got it out of my system, and it's done.


 
Asswipe Posted: Thu Jan 1 17:38:41 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  i don't know how or why you're so eager to accept that a whole society of people are simply bred to hate and kill. have you experienced these "classrooms of evil"?

These suicide bombers and terrorists exist on both sides of the equation. including entire nations in this is foolish. There's no way the majority of either side would be willing to die to kill the other side. I'm sure there are some fanatics on each side that do this sort of shit, however if an entire society was bred to hate and kill, the violence there would have already escalated into something worse, ie. an all out war.

that's the main reason i doubt this man's point of view. if there was as much hatred as you're describing, there would be an invasion.



 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Jan 1 20:44:56 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:
>i don't know how or why you're so eager to accept that a whole society of people are simply bred to hate and kill. have you experienced these "classrooms of evil"?

They make no attempt to hide this fact. The Palestinians indoctrinate their children to hate all Jews from day one.
None of their textbooks even acknowledge the existence of Israel.
In their schools, they teach the koran, and hatred of Jews. Not math, history, geography, etc.

>These suicide bombers and terrorists exist on both sides of the equation.

No, there are not suicide bombers and terrorist on both sides of this equation.
When have you ever heard of an Israeli suicide bomber going into a Palestinian cafe and blowing himself up ?


including entire nations in this is foolish. There's no way the majority of either side would be willing to die to kill the other side.

That is true, the Israelis would be willing to live side by side with Palestine. It's the Palestinians that won't recognize Israel's right to exist.
As I stated before, Israel has offered two times now, to revert to the 1967 borders, which is what they have been demanding now for couple of decades, and Mr Arafat refused because he knew that his people would have him killed for accepting this. They do not want land as much as they want Israel's destruction.

I'm sure there are some fanatics on each side that do this sort of shit, however if an entire society was bred to hate and kill, the violence there would have already escalated into something worse, ie. an all out war.

There have already been several wars, but the last one was pretty decisive. It was called the 6 day war in 1967.
Israel was confronted with the armies of Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Algeria, and Kuwait. It took Israel only 6 days to defeat them, and take the West Bank and Gaza from them.
After this humiliating defeat, Egypt signed the Camp David accords and the rest, as they say, is history. They no longer have the means to wage war, so they wage terror.
Read my copy/paste thread on why the Palestinians hate the Israelis and you will see how the Arab world uses the Palestinians as their pawns against Israel.
I have no great love for Israel, (they ruthlessly killed American sailors - See USS Liberty), but they are most definitely in the right against the Palestinians.
Btw, Palestine is not a nation.

>that's the main reason i doubt this man's point of view. if there was as much hatred as you're describing, there would be an invasion.

see above
>


 
mat_j Posted: Thu Jan 1 21:10:51 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  awe Hif, that's just superstition


 
Asswipe Posted: Thu Jan 1 23:50:44 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  good to know


 



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