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Suicide
socialyD Posted: Tue Jan 20 16:53:53 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I know that "What do you think 2" has a great suicide discussion going so I am trying to convince everyone to move that discussion here. It getting really hard to keep up in there.

So if you feel so inclined, begin posting here. Or not I don't minding feeling like and idiot. =)


 
FN Posted: Tue Jan 20 17:02:43 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Suicide is your own decision.

Nobody has the right to decide for another person.

By the way, we are discussing suicide in our religious class at the moment.


 
Mesh Posted: Tue Jan 20 17:05:30 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I am for doctor assisted suicide of terminally ill patients who are in unimaginably excruciating pain.


All other suicide though, this is just my opinion, is messed up. But I have no real room to talk, as I have attempted this act myself.


Now that I think back on it, if I would have succeeded, I feel bad on what my family and friends would have gone through because of something I did.


Now whenever I get those feelings again, I just tell myself that things are bad now, but they will get better, and I just have to bare it for a while.




 
Mesh Posted: Tue Jan 20 17:06:47 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>Suicide is your own decision.
>
>Nobody has the right to decide for another person.
>
>By the way, we are discussing suicide in our religious class at the moment.


When it comes right down to it, it really is up to the person if they want to live or die, I agree.






 
socialyD Posted: Tue Jan 20 17:10:33 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  But suicide can be a very selfish act. You death can affect so many people and can literaly ruin lives. Is okay to end your 'suffering' at the cost of anothers?


 
FN Posted: Tue Jan 20 17:12:42 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  socialyD said:
>But suicide can be a very selfish act. You death can affect so many people and can literaly ruin lives. Is okay to end your 'suffering' at the cost of anothers?


That question works the other way around as well.

Do you believe you have the right to demand from somebody that they keep on living even though they really don't want to anymore just so you won't get upset because of their death?


 
SntSaturn Posted: Tue Jan 20 17:50:04 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I'd like to think there is always even the slightest hope that the person could pull through. Maybe I'm an overly optimistic person; ok, i know i am, but still.


 
FN Posted: Tue Jan 20 18:01:29 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  SntSaturn said:
>I'd like to think there is always even the slightest hope that the person could pull through. Maybe I'm an overly optimistic person; ok, i know i am, but still.

So what?

If I'd have to chose between dying right now or having to live in pain or like a plant for the rest of my life to me it would be fairly obvious what to chose.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Jan 20 18:24:23 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  socialyD said:
>But suicide can be a very selfish act. You death can affect so many people and can literaly ruin lives. Is okay to end your 'suffering' at the cost of anothers?

Yes, the others have no claim on the life that belongs to you. It's just that simple.
Yes, suicide can be very selfish and I might not agree with every one who ends their life, but it is still their life to do with what they wish.
And besides, some people just need to be killed. . .



 
sry_not4sale Posted: Tue Jan 20 18:59:09 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>socialyD said:
>>But suicide can be a very selfish act. You death can affect so many people and can literaly ruin lives. Is okay to end your 'suffering' at the cost of anothers?
>
>
>That question works the other way around as well.
>
>Do you believe you have the right to demand from somebody that they keep on living even though they really don't want to anymore just so you won't get upset because of their death?

i think that side of the argument is overlooked too often


 
socialyD Posted: Tue Jan 20 19:04:06 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  If we're talking doctor assited suicide yes I believe it's right to allow someone to end their suffering.

But other than that I think suicide is selfish. If you're overwhelmed, emotionaly upset, or depressed get help. Suicide is the cowards way out. Ending your life because you can't deal with your reality, is cowardly and selfish.



 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Jan 20 19:11:35 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  socialyD said:
>But other than that I think suicide is selfish. If you're overwhelmed, emotionaly upset, or depressed get help. Suicide is the cowards way out. Ending your life because you can't deal with your reality, is cowardly and selfish.

all that might be true, but it is still their life to do with as they wish.


 
sry_not4sale Posted: Tue Jan 20 19:20:29 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  socialyD said:
>If we're talking doctor assited suicide yes I believe it's right to allow someone to end their suffering.
>
>But other than that I think suicide is selfish. If you're overwhelmed, emotionaly upset, or depressed get help. Suicide is the cowards way out. Ending your life because you can't deal with your reality, is cowardly and selfish.

Im guessing you've never been on the verge of suicide or someone extremely close 2 you has?
(my most humble and genuine apologize if this is not the case)

>But other than that I think suicide is selfish. If you're overwhelmed, emotionaly upset, or depressed get help. Suicide is the cowards way out. Ending your life because you can't deal with your reality, is cowardly and selfish.

In my opinion - i dont agree wif that argument. being a youth in this new millenium ive seen alot of ppl on (and over) the verge of suicide.
i think other people pushing, tormenting and taking joy in making people miserable are the _real_ cowards.

Although sumtimes the person wanting to commit (suicide) also does it 2 strike revenge, knowing full well the impact there deicision will cause. perhaps this makes him/her the coward then? tho it was the tormentors that drove them to it? giving up is a form of cowardice i agree.

and then on the medical side of things - i think for sum people rather than suicide being the cowardly way out, committing is the ONLY logical way out. when your stuck in a bed 24/7, under immense pain, not being able to think because your on so much drugs, are you really alive at all?

i think suicide cannot be deemed right or wrong - but must be considered on a case-by-case basis.

jst some thoughts


 
socialyD Posted: Tue Jan 20 19:22:41 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>That question works the other way around as well.
>
>Do you believe you have the right to demand from somebody that they keep on living even though they really don't want to anymore just so you won't get upset because of their death?

Ahh and now we cross over the bridge and into the land of Ethics 101.

It depends upon your ethics I guess. Is it better to sacrifice one for the good of the many, or sacrifice all for the good of one?





 
choke Posted: Tue Jan 20 20:37:10 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  sry_not4sale said:

>
>Although sumtimes the person wanting to commit (suicide) also does it 2 strike revenge, knowing full well the impact there deicision will cause. perhaps this makes him/her the coward then? tho it was the tormentors that drove them to it? giving up is a form of cowardice i agree.

emotion is a destructive thing. But i find indifference twice as painful.
>
>and then on the medical side of things - i think for sum people rather than suicide being the cowardly way out, committing is the ONLY logical way out. when your stuck in a bed 24/7, under immense pain, not being able to think because your on so much drugs, are you really alive at all?
>
Under my bed i have a peice of paper i have written on which states if that should ever happen to me i should be kept alive only as long as it takes to remove my organs and distribute them. Then i want to die. It also includes that i want to be buried in a pink jumpsuit with red hearts. ;)

>i think suicide cannot be deemed right or wrong - but must be considered on a case-by-case basis.
>
agreed.

>jst some thoughts

Heres some more :P

The fact that i am capable to decide i want to die scares the shit outta me. To want everything to end, never feel another emotion becuase the ones you house cause you too much pain - That is the most horrific choice you will ever be asked to make. Even worse is the choice you want to live -after- you've decided you want to die. Could you imagine how badly that would fuck you up being able to change your mind and take your hand away from the switch that would turn you off as simply as that? Death is around every corner and when you've become so determinedly close but been yanked away, it always stays with you. You become scared to think of suicide in case you decide to go for it. Impulse is my way of life, but when it goes that far it just scares me.


 
choke Posted: Tue Jan 20 20:45:27 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  choke said:
>>
>Under my bed i have a peice of paper i have written on which states if that should ever happen to me i should be kept alive only as long as it takes to remove my organs and distribute them. Then i want to die. It also includes that i want to be buried in a pink jumpsuit with red hearts. ;)
>
I am to receive the same treatment if i ever fall in love. :p


 
Mesh Posted: Tue Jan 20 20:49:22 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  choke said:
>choke said:
>>>
>>Under my bed i have a peice of paper i have written on which states if that should ever happen to me i should be kept alive only as long as it takes to remove my organs and distribute them. Then i want to die. It also includes that i want to be buried in a pink jumpsuit with red hearts. ;)
>>
>I am to receive the same treatment if i ever fall in love. :p



Ah to fall in love. "I'm in love with love love love". It is the only thing that lets me feel human. The only thing that makes me feel worth living. It lets me know that I am not pure evil, that I am capable of compassion and caring for others. Without it, I dont know where, or who I would be, and to be quite honest, I dont want to know, because I can tell you this much, I would be nothing less than a horrible monster of a soul.


Without love, I am nothing but a cold, unfeeling beast.


 
sry_not4sale Posted: Tue Jan 20 20:52:53 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  meshuggah said:
>Ah to fall in love. "I'm in love with love love love". It is the only thing that lets me feel human. The only thing that makes me feel worth living. It lets me know that I am not pure evil, that I am capable of compassion and caring for others. Without it, I dont know where, or who I would be, and to be quite honest, I dont want to know, because I can tell you this much, I would be nothing less than a horrible monster of a soul.
>
>
>Without love, I am nothing but a cold, unfeeling beast.

*waits for choke's arguement*

you picked a hell of a point 2 argue with against her!

*grabs a coke and popcorn*


 
choke Posted: Tue Jan 20 21:01:53 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  meshuggah said:
>choke said:

>Ah to fall in love. "I'm in love with love love love". It is the only thing that lets me feel human. The only thing that makes me feel worth living. It lets me know that I am not pure evil, that I am capable of compassion and caring for others. Without it, I dont know where, or who I would be, and to be quite honest, I dont want to know, because I can tell you this much, I would be nothing less than a horrible monster of a soul.
>
>
>Without love, I am nothing but a cold, unfeeling beast.

Are you calling me a cold unfeeling beast? How can you be in love with love, you're in love with an illusion! Love is a desperate attempt to make humankind forget about their instinct to beat others down in their quest to make their own lives better. Love does not, and shall not, ever exist in my eyes. The only acceptable reason i can see for love is its excuse for free sex.

I pity those in love. To beleive yourself in love you are one of two things. Unstable enough to create a myth, so desperate for a purpose that you hide the truth of your motives from even yourself behind your wall of sentimental disregard for the truth, or you are one of the deceived, endlessly sucked in by twisted lies, sugarcoated in sickly sweet cloyingly hollow recorded words, a player stuck on repeat until the 'lover' gets what they want and the player is turned off, leaving the naive no longer so.

*breaks off, eyes glazed, chest heaving*

love!
*spits*


 
Kira Posted: Tue Jan 20 21:13:08 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Now just wait, in six months she'll be posting here for advice about a boy.


 
Asswipe Posted: Tue Jan 20 21:39:35 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  you may not believe in "love" choke but do you believe in the admiration of other people's characteristics? that's what love is to me. seeing someone that i like and admire to a high degree = love. it's purely mental, and it has to be in order to mean the most. therefore the more i know and respect about myself and other people, the more i can deeply love a person. the physical "chemistry" shit is just a state of mind that i can have towards almost anyone after a few beers.

and i'm not saying this is a good reason to be alive. you should want to be alive because you're passionate about something, about anything... not another person. be passionate about something about yourself, a hobby, a sport, a career, jig saw puzzles... whatever.

but love is very real and its very not mystical.

oh yeah... and killing people's bad


 
Asswipe Posted: Tue Jan 20 21:41:25 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  "i'd rather be a crying pussy than a faggy goth kid"

name that quote


 
Mesh Posted: Tue Jan 20 22:54:14 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  choke said:
>meshuggah said:
>>choke said:
>
>>Ah to fall in love. "I'm in love with love love love". It is the only thing that lets me feel human. The only thing that makes me feel worth living. It lets me know that I am not pure evil, that I am capable of compassion and caring for others. Without it, I dont know where, or who I would be, and to be quite honest, I dont want to know, because I can tell you this much, I would be nothing less than a horrible monster of a soul.
>>
>>
>>Without love, I am nothing but a cold, unfeeling beast.

I was afraid someone would think that, I should have been more clear. I am an
>
>Are you calling me a cold unfeeling beast?

I was afraid someone would think thats what I meant, that any one who doesnt fall in love is cold and unfeeling. I should have been more clear. I am saying thats how I am without feeling love. Without that one emotion, I am cold and unfeeling. I understand that other people can go without out love, and of course it doesnt make them like that. But love is, and has been for many years, the only emotion I am capable of feeling. And yes, I will cling on to that one emotion. Before I found love, I was one of the most cruel, indifferent, vengeful people you would likely meet, and I never once felt remorse for any of the violent, or cold hearted things that I did. And I just didnt like being that way.



And I really dont care if anyone looks down on me for living in an illusion, because without that illusion, I can honestly think of a few occasions where, thinking of the girl I love was the only thing stopping me from pulling out that knife and plunging it into the other fellows heart.



 
Mesh Posted: Tue Jan 20 23:48:53 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:
>"i'd rather be a crying pussy than a faggy goth kid"
>
>name that quote


butters from south park?


 
choke Posted: Wed Jan 21 00:12:56 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Sailovzi said:
>Now just wait, in six months she'll be posting here for advice about a boy.

Hehehehe.. It probably wouldnt suprise me.. *starts the clock*


 
choke Posted: Wed Jan 21 00:17:05 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:
>you may not believe in "love" choke but do you believe in the admiration of other people's characteristics? that's what love is to me. seeing someone that i like and admire to a high degree = love. it's purely mental, and it has to be in order to mean the most. therefore the more i know and respect about myself and other people, the more i can deeply love a person. the physical "chemistry" shit is just a state of mind that i can have towards almost anyone after a few beers.
>
>and i'm not saying this is a good reason to be alive. you should want to be alive because you're passionate about something, about anything... not another person. be passionate about something about yourself, a hobby, a sport, a career, jig saw puzzles... whatever.
>
>but love is very real and its very not mystical.
>
>oh yeah... and killing people's bad

I find that once you find characteristics you like in a person you try to ignore the shit you hate about them. Later on, this becomes apparent and the mental love thing isnt all its cracked out to be.

I agree with the passion thing though, passion is great, i just cant let it have anything to do with people.


 
choke Posted: Wed Jan 21 00:21:33 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
 
Ok i getya, but now i have nothing to rant about :( why is everyone so agreeable?!


 
Sheoul Posted: Wed Jan 21 05:37:03 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  choke said:
>
>:( why is everyone so agreeable?!

Suicide? There's too many screwed up ppl in the world, feeling sorry for themselves. If they're on the edge, about to spare the world from their pathetic existance, then I say give them a friendly nudge.


 
antartica Posted: Wed Jan 21 05:51:32 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Sheoul said:
>choke said:
>>
>>:( why is everyone so agreeable?!
>
>Suicide? There's too many screwed up ppl in the world, feeling sorry for themselves. If they're on the edge, about to spare the world from their pathetic existance, then I say give them a friendly nudge.

damnned!
a planker and so much insight already!!!

velcum to the House of Dementia!
i like you already.... heh heh... friendly nudge...

i's glad you weren't around when i was younger and had stronger sucidal tendancies and used to sit the late nights away smoking on the parapet of my balconey...


 
Asswipe Posted: Wed Jan 21 15:30:06 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  meshuggah said:
>Asswipe said:
>>"i'd rather be a crying pussy than a faggy goth kid"
>>
>>name that quote
>
>
>butters from south park?

oh yeah


 
soberpam Posted: Fri Jan 23 06:21:03 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  socialyD said:
>If we're talking doctor assited suicide yes I believe it's right to allow someone to end their suffering.
>
>But other than that I think suicide is selfish. If you're overwhelmed, emotionaly upset, or depressed get help. Suicide is the cowards way out. Ending your life because you can't deal with your reality, is cowardly and selfish.
>no i dont think it's selfish.your life is YOUR life, where's the selfishness in that? although, yes it is cowardice. and weakness.


 



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