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Video of terror
socialyD Posted: Thu Jan 29 15:06:34 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  The Isreal's MSA has posted a video of the J'lem bombing. http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/home.asp

It is very gory and graphic video some people may want to avoid watching it.

The video shows the realictic horrific aftermath of terrorism. It shows you the truth that is wirtten in the deaths and blood of the innocent vitcims that died there today.

10 people were killed
50 people injured
10 of which were seriously injured.

The Palestines have claimed responsiblity for the act. Surprise.

An anti-terrorist fence may have be able to prevent this but UN is forcing Irealies to dock at the International Court of Justice over the fence. Believeing that that fence is in violation of some code or another.

May the souls of the dead find comfort beyond this earth.


 
FN Posted: Thu Jan 29 15:29:17 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Maybe you should watch the documentary 'checkpoint'


 
Iamjustdancing. Posted: Thu Jan 29 16:02:00 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  We should let Isreal do what they want to do, stop trying to hold them back. They have it right in my opinion, eye for an eye. I think the isreali army was free to dominate their oposition, they would, in a heartbeat. It's the _morons_ at the UN , and yes the united states, that keep them from obtaining peace in the region. Obviuosly this isn't going to stop till one side is completely obliterated. That's the trtouble with the middle east, there is no middle ground. It's all or nothing... (btw has there ever been peace in the middle east?) those ppl are so fucked in the head they haven't been civilized toward eachother or anyone ever since i can remember. (granted i am not that old or anything but still) Well, i guess they really arn't a civilized nation as we know it, and if we have to treat them like animals to obtain 'peace', so be it.


 
FN Posted: Thu Jan 29 16:11:14 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  It's the palestinians who are terrorised.


Really, try to find 'Checkpoint'.


If you see stuff like that it isn't too farfetched to think that people who are desperate blow themselves up.


 
socialyD Posted: Thu Jan 29 16:14:40 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  There is no excuse for killing innocent people ever!



 
addi Posted: Thu Jan 29 16:16:06 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  If I was born and raised a Palestinean I would want to kill Israelies

If I was born and raised an Israeli I would want to kill Palestineans

Conclusion:
Humans are hopeless fools


 
FN Posted: Thu Jan 29 16:23:07 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  socialyD said:
>There is no excuse for killing innocent people ever!
>

Do you think the isreali's have golden rings floating over their heads?




Do you know anything about the situations at the checkpoints?


Don't you see why they put stuff like that online?

It's just to influence the easily persuaded.


 
FN Posted: Thu Jan 29 16:24:04 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  It's called propaganda.


I wonder if you'll find the result of what the israelian army does.


 
Iamjustdancing. Posted: Thu Jan 29 16:44:34 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  the palistiniens were given the option of full isreali citizenship way back when isreal was founded. They chose to move out and not accept the isreali's offer. Now they are bitching and moaning and fighting etc. Though i have to agree with addison. Humans (especially in that part of the world) are hopeless. but seriously... blowing up busses and children? how fucking low can you get. Christophe how about you go blow yourself up for their cause if you feel so strongly about it?


 
Iamjustdancing. Posted: Thu Jan 29 16:45:12 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  or even better. what if your family was blown up by terrorists. how would YOU feel then?


 
novemberrain Posted: Thu Jan 29 16:47:05 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>If I was born and raised a Palestinean I would want to kill Israelies
>
>If I was born and raised an Israeli I would want to kill Palestineans
>
>Conclusion:
>Humans are hopeless fools

Amen, addi. Amen.


 
FN Posted: Thu Jan 29 17:23:41 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  WSU-Dave said:
>the palistiniens were given the option of full isreali citizenship way back when isreal was founded. They chose to move out and not accept the isreali's offer. Now they are bitching and moaning and fighting etc. Though i have to agree with addison. Humans (especially in that part of the world) are hopeless. but seriously... blowing up busses and children? how fucking low can you get. Christophe how about you go blow yourself up for their cause if you feel so strongly about it?


What the fuck is wrong with you you immature prick?

There's no need to get personal, so watch it or I'll come and bitch-slap yo mamma lol


I don't know which country you live in, but I wonder what you'd say if some day somebody decides over your head that from now one that stretch of land belongs to other people and you have the choice between either joining them or fuck off.

You think the israeli's have never hurt innocent people?

And if it was my cause I think that under certain circumstances I'd be prepared to die if that means I can take some of the people who opress me along.


I wonder how you'd react if you were being treated like an animal.

I wonder what you would say if some isreali soldier on an ego trip decides that you can't go through the checkpoint anymore (you can't go to work or can't go home).

I wonder what you'd say if they shout and yell at you for no reason at all and make you wait for hours on end in the blazing sun or drenching rain to break you (Literally the words of an isreali checkpoint guard at a checkpoint in some major israelian city, forgot the name but if I hear it I'll probably remember it)

I'd like to see your reaction if they decided to let forbid you to pass somewhere and see them hitting on your daughter or wife like they're nothing but sex objects.



Go fuck yourself, I'm not in the mood for some childish fuck who doesn't know shit about what he's talking and gets whipped up by some bullshit propaganda video.


 
FN Posted: Thu Jan 29 17:25:52 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Btw, I'm not saying that blowing innocent people up is the way to do it, I'm saying that you should have a look at both sides of the story before drawing any conclusions.



There are always 3 sides to a story, the one of each of the 2 parties involved, and the truth.


 
Aeon Posted: Thu Jan 29 17:38:06 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Shit happens. I doubt there will ever be a true peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians because both believe so strongly about what they're doing. No hope for them.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Jan 29 17:59:39 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Who Wants to Be a Palestinian Refugee?
By Steven Plaut


In the American War of Independence, many thousands of Tory "Loyalists" fled
the newborn country as "refugees." The American War of Independence was in
reality a civil war. The local Tories opposed the creation of the newly
declared independent state, sought to remain a part of the greater British
Empire, allied themselves with the British forces trying to suppress the new
state, participated in "terrorist" attacks and tried to destroy the American
independence movement from within. The Tory refugees fled the 13 colonies to
Canada, the Caribbean, and elsewhere because they wished to escape battle
zones, feared reprisals, were expelled or simply did not wish to be part of
the United States.
Those Tory refugees were absorbed by the countries to which they fled,
mainly Maritime British Canada. They forfeited all the property left behind
in the United States. The Patriot leaders opposed any sort of compensation
or settlement for them. The most militant opponent of any sort of deal was
Benjamin Franklin. They would never be granted any "right of return" to the
territories they had left.
Flash forward to the twentieth century. In the late 1940s the world saw tens
of millions of refugees created by the political upheavals in various parts
of the world. World War II left behind large numbers of refugees and people
displaced from the lands of their birth. Among these, the nations of Eastern
Europe expelled millions of ethnic Germans from their territories, probably
around 12 million in total. These were people who had collaborated with Nazi
Germany and identified with it, people who had assisted Hitler in invading
their own countries. Ethnic Germans were expelled from the Sudeten area of
Czechoslovakia, where they had served as the pawns for Hitler's opening
gambit during World War II. They were also expelled from Hungary, Romania,
Poland, Russia and Yugoslavia. (From the last, Moslems and others were
expelled as well.) The ethnic Germans were expelled to their Fatherland,
which had been the aggressor in the war. The same fate befell the Japanese
Diaspora in Asia, especially in Manchuria and Korea.
But the ethnic Germans and Japanese were not the only refugees. Ethnic
Hungarians were expelled from Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia to their "Mother
Country." There were millions of refugees created by the partition of the
Indian subcontinent, especially in the Punjab. There followed population
movements of disenfranchised peoples in South America and in Africa. Jewish
survivors of World War II, Poles expelled from the areas of Poland annexed
by Russia, Italians from Africa, the list of refugees goes on and on.
And amid this endless list of millions of human tragedies, a mini-tragedy
took place in the Middle East. The United Nations proposed partitioning
Mandatory Palestine into two new states, one Jewish and one Arab, in a
manner that was similar to what was being proposed for the Indian
subcontinent. There had never been any independent Palestinian Arab state
ever, and no Jewish state since the time of Jesus. Palestine had been a
colony of assorted outside invaders and colonialists, the most recent being
the British and before them the Turks.
The Jews accepted the proposal. The Arabs, including the leadership of the
"Palestinian" Arabs, rejected the proposal. The Arab countries illegally
annexed the territories of the proposed Palestinian Arab state and then
attacked the newborn Jewish state, in exactly the same manner as Britain and
its Hessian allies attacking the newborn United States in 1776. The Israeli
Arabs served as a fifth column, joining the invading forces and engaging in
terrorist atrocities, just as the Tory Loyalists did in the United States.
And like the Tory Loyalists, the Arabs lost.
During the course of the war, some of the Arabs living in the area that
became Israel emigrated <http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~samuel/refugees.html>.
The number of those who left has since been converted into a propaganda
weapon by the Hate-Israel lobby. Based on demographic evidence, the range of
reasonable numbers for the émigrés is between 400,000 and 700,000 people,
with the former number much more likely than the latter, and in any case
little more than a drop in the sea of refugees in the late 1940s. These
people moved or fled to sister Arab countries, just as the Tory refugees
moved to British territories. The exact reason for their leaving has long
since been purposely obfuscated to allow the "refugee" issue to serve as an
anti-Israel bludgeon. Some of the best analyses of this "refugee problem"
have been by Prof. Efraim Karsh of the University of London, in Commentary
Magazine (Commentary, July-August, 2000, and "The Palestinians and the
"right of return" Commentary; May 2001; Vol. 111, Iss. 5; see also this
website <http://www.aijac.org.au/review/2001/266/essay266.html> and "What
Occupation?" Commentary; Jul/Aug 2002; Vol. 114, Iss. 1).
Probably the main reason for the outflow of Arab refugees from what became
Israel was their understandable desire to get away from the battle zones. In
most cases, the Jews went out of their way to dissuade the Arabs from
fleeing. The leadership of the local Arabs and of the attacking Arab states
repeatedly urged the local Arabs to flee the battle zones so they would not
be in the way of the invading Arab juggernaut that would annihilate the Jews
and perpetrate a new Holocaust.
The Arab countries and their anti-Jewish "amen chorus" claim that that
Israel expelled the 400,000 or so "refugees."
<http://arabterrorism.tripod.com/FAQ/refugees.html> Even if it had, it was
at least as justified in doing so as were the American patriots in expelling
the Tory Loyalists, or the Eastern European countries that expelled ethnic
Germans. The Arab states also conveniently "forget" that they attacked
Israel in 1948 when there were absolutely no Arab refugees to be rescued
<http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~samuel/origins.html>, meaning Arab aggression
produced the refugee problem and was not a reaction to Israel's creation. Be
that as it may, even if there were some partial truth to the Arab
accusations against Israel, it is little more that the pot calling the
kettle black. Within a short period of Israel's winning its War of
Independence, the Arab and Moslem countries perpetrated one of the great
ethnic cleansings of modern human history. They expelled around a million
Jews from their territories, most of whom were resettled inside Israel,
despite that fact that these Jews had lived in the territories of the Moslem
world centuries before the birth of the Prophet Mohammed and a thousand
years before the Arab Empire was created.
Thus by the early 1950s, the main refugee problem in the Middle East was the
million Jews expelled by the Arabs
<http://www.ajds.org.au/mendes_refugees.htm>, while a minor secondary
problem was the 400,000 or so Arabs who had fled Israel after its creation.
Not only were there far more Jewish refugees
<http://www.jewishrefugees.org/> than Arab refugees
<http://jewishrefugees.org/JusticeForJews.htm>, but the Jews had left behind
far greater amounts of property. The Jews in the Moslem world had been
largely educated and middle class, whereas most of the Arabs fleeing the
newly born Israel had been impoverished serfs living and working on Arab
feudal estates.
And that, in brief, is the entire story of the creation of the "Palestinian
refugee problem." It is not the story you will hear on the many anti-Israel
media outlets, perhaps the latest being MSNBC
<http://msnbc.com/modules/interactive.asp?id=/news/wld/intl/brill/palestine_
refugees.htm&navid=mideast&0cb=-516133952>. It is also not the story being
proliferated by the apologists for the Arab aggressors and Jihadists, who
invariably base themselves these days on Israel's own far-left,
pseudo-academic "New Historians," a bit like basing an analysis of American
mendacity on the scribblings of Noam Chomsky.
The Jewish refugee problem was resolved the same way other refugee problems
were solved. They were absorbed and integrated into the country in which
they obtained refuge, in their "Mother Country," namely in Israel. In
reality, the twin Middle Eastern refugee streams of the late 1940s and early
1950s were very similar to other twin streams of refugees, in which national
conflicts were settled de facto via population transfer. This is how the
India-Pakistani conflict of 1949 ended and how the Greek-Turkish and Cypriot
conflicts reached cooled. It is how the countries of Eastern Europe ended
the demographic disruptions from the aftermath of World War II. And it is
even how the American War of Independence ended.
But the Arabs refused to absorb and resettle their refugees
<http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~peters/resettlement.html>. Of the countless
millions of refugees from the 1940s, the only ones not absorbed and
resettled by their "Mother Countries," by the countries in which they sought
refuge, were the "Palestinian refugees." The Arab world realized that they
could be used as pawns and as weapons to continue the Arab jihad of
annihilation against Israel. These refugees were kept in "refugee camps" run
by the Arab world and financed by the United Nations and the world community
(that is, mainly the United States). The camp residents were trained in
terrorism and mass murder.
Meanwhile, since the world community was handing out free food and cash to
those claiming to be "Palestinian refugees," hundreds of thousands of other
Arabs from the Arab countries of refuge for these people signed up as
"refugees" in order to get the handouts. It was as if a new TV show were
invented with generous prizes, called "Who Wants to be a Palestinian
Refugee?" This pretence is the source of the absurd claims that the 400,000
refugees from 1949 have since morphed into 3.5 million refugees today.
Imagine that the British Empire had taken the Tory Loyalists who left
America, set them up in terrorist training camps along the Canadian border,
organized them into murderous legions and death squads, armed them with
heavy firepower, bankrolled them, and all the while built up its own armies
for the day of reckoning when the Americans would be annihilated and thrown
into the sea. Imagine that the British Empire underwent nazification, by
which its schoolchildren were taught that the greatest act of patriotism was
to murder American children and bomb American schools and meeting houses.
Imagine that for decades the British kept the Tory Loyalists who had fled
the United States locked up in squalid camps for their public relations
value.
And then imagine that the British Empire announced that it would never agree
to recognize the existence of the United States until the Tory Loyalists had
been granted the "Right of Return." Imagine that the British insisted that
until all property, real or imaginary, claimed by those Tory refugees were
"returned," the anti-American jihad would continue.
And if you can imagine such a thing, you have the entire story of the
Palestinian "Right of Return." Of the tens of millions of refugees from the
1940s, the only ones on the planet who are regarded as having an entitlement
to the property and lands from which they left in the 1940s are the
Palestinians <http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~peters/different.html>. Certainly
the Jewish refugees from the Moslem countries, who were twice the numbers of
the Palestinian refugees, have never been granted any such right.
<http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/legal.html>
Let us state this even more clearly.: The Arab world and its apologists have
demanded that the Palestinians be granted their own state, and insisting
that anyone claiming now to be a Palestinian "refugee" - 55 years after the
war launched by the Arabs - should be entitled to move to Israel and reclaim
property. Obviously the true reason for this demand is to derail Israel
demographically and turn it into the Rwanda of the Levant.
Israel has expressed willingness since 1949 to talk about some sort of
financial settlement and resolution scheme for Arabs who did indeed become
refugees in 1948-9 as part of any comprehensive peace agreement, unlike
Benjamin Franklin and the Patriots of 1776. The Arabs have refused to
negotiate peace. As a result, there has been no resolution. No such scheme
should be unilateral, given the fact that the Jewish refugees from the
Moslem world left behind property worth perhaps ten times as much as what
was lost by the "Palestinians."
But a "Right of Reurn"? One that allows anyone pretending to be a
Palestinian "refugee" to move to Israel, even after erection of a
Palestinian terrorist state? Nothing could be a more absurd idea. That is
the recipe for converting Israel into Rwanda.
When the Czechs let the Sudeten Germans return, when Pakistan invites the
Hindu Punjabis to return and India invites back the Moslems, when Turkey
invites the Greeks to return to Anatolia, when the Greeks invite the Turks
back to Athens and Cyprus, when the ethnic Japanese expelled from Korea and
China are invited back, and when the United States agrees to allow all
descendents of Tory Loyalists to reclaim lands in New England - only then
should the world consider whether the Palestinians have any "Right of
Return" to Israel.
The "Right of Return" for "Palestinians" is nothing more than an instrument
of aggression being bandied about by the genocidal Jihadists and
Islamofascists of the Arab world.



 
socialyD Posted: Thu Jan 29 18:43:27 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I am not trying to pick a side here. I think that the video show you the reality of terrorism and what it does to people.


 
FN Posted: Thu Jan 29 18:47:08 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  socialyD said:
>I am not trying to pick a side here. I think that the video show you the reality of terrorism and what it does to people.

It doesn't show the reality the palestinian people have to live in day after day though.

Like I said, I don't agree with the way they express their frustration but what can you do if that's all you have?

Palestinians don't have tanks and apache's, they only have their own body to deliver a blow to the enemy.



And another thing, the video is posted ona government website, shouldn't that make some warning lights flash before you decide to lose all objectivity?


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Jan 29 19:46:54 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>socialyD said:
>>I am not trying to pick a side here. I think that the video show you the reality of terrorism and what it does to people.
>
>It doesn't show the reality the palestinian people have to live in day after day though.
>
>Like I said, I don't agree with the way they express their frustration but what can you do if that's all you have?
>
>Palestinians don't have tanks and apache's, they only have their own body to deliver a blow to the enemy.
>
>
>
>And another thing, the video is posted ona government website, shouldn't that make some warning lights flash before you decide to lose all objectivity?

The Palestinians have only themselves to blame for their lot in life.
They were offered everything they have demanded twice now and both times turned it down because their real agenda is the destruction of Israel.
Yasser Arafat has made himself one of the world's richest men on the backs and blood of the ignorant Palestinians.
Their schools teach hatred of Jews from the time they are old enough to learn.
Yes, Israel has killed civilians from time to time, but it is not their governments policy like it is in Palestine, and they only act in retaliation. Israel has no problem living side by side in peace. It's the Palestinians that have the problem.


 
iggy Posted: Thu Jan 29 19:55:36 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>If I was born and raised a Palestinean I would want to kill Israelies
>
>If I was born and raised an Israeli I would want to kill Palestineans
>
>Conclusion:
>Humans are hopeless fools

i agree with the above. i like to read both the isreali and palestinian news online. and i get sick in the gut with both their versions of events.
then i get the third party point of view...

but the truth is, if u're not there and involved... u can;t say anything about it.

sometimes the reality that we 'see' and 'read' are lies more accurate than the truth... we may see the same thing. witness the entire event, but due to our different points of view, we create different truths in our heads.

for example.
if a car bomb goes off in the streets of israel. and both an lsraeli and a Palestinian saw it.

what would go off in their minds?

i don't believe in the peace talks between both countries. they're between the leaders.
the peace talks should be done with the people. and looking at the mindsets of the common people there, peace will be elusive for a very long time.
we can change laws, change policies and even governments... but we can never change the points of views of the common people over there in these 2 countries for a long time.


 
FN Posted: Fri Jan 30 13:35:19 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>Christophe said:
>>socialyD said:
>>>I am not trying to pick a side here. I think that the video show you the reality of terrorism and what it does to people.
>>
>>It doesn't show the reality the palestinian people have to live in day after day though.
>>
>>Like I said, I don't agree with the way they express their frustration but what can you do if that's all you have?
>>
>>Palestinians don't have tanks and apache's, they only have their own body to deliver a blow to the enemy.
>>
>>
>>
>>And another thing, the video is posted ona government website, shouldn't that make some warning lights flash before you decide to lose all objectivity?
>
>The Palestinians have only themselves to blame for their lot in life.
>They were offered everything they have demanded twice now and both times turned it down because their real agenda is the destruction of Israel.
>Yasser Arafat has made himself one of the world's richest men on the backs and blood of the ignorant Palestinians.
>Their schools teach hatred of Jews from the time they are old enough to learn.
>Yes, Israel has killed civilians from time to time, but it is not their governments policy like it is in Palestine, and they only act in retaliation. Israel has no problem living side by side in peace. It's the Palestinians that have the problem.

I'm not surprised to hear stuff like this from you hif.

I'm sure israelian leaders only act for the good of the world instead of for themselves.

I'm not talking about the palestinian leader anyway, I'm talking about the people.

Again, watch 'checkpoint'.


If somebody declares your hometown to be part of belgium tomorrow and the officials do the same thing to you as the stuff the palestinians have to go through I'd like to see how you'd react.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Fri Jan 30 14:02:05 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>
>I'm not surprised to hear stuff like this from you hif.
>
>I'm sure israelian leaders only act for the good of the world instead of for themselves.
>
>I'm not talking about the palestinian leader anyway, I'm talking about the people.
>
>Again, watch 'checkpoint'.

>
>If somebody declares your hometown to be part of belgium tomorrow and the officials do the same thing to you as the stuff the palestinians have to go
through I'd like to see how you'd react.

I never said Israelis act for the good of the world, you are putting words in my mouth. Israel acts in self defense.
You totally failed to address the fact that Israel is perfectly willing to live in peace with the Palestinians and the Palestinians only agenda is the destruction of Israel.
That is the reason for Israels acquisition of land.
You also failed to address the fact that Israel offered the land back to them in exchange for peace and it was refused.


 
mat_j Posted: Mon Feb 2 07:19:12 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Im sure that's exactly why Israel voted in Ariel Sharon wasn't it. Someone to lead them in a new spirit of peace and harmony?!!


 



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