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Climate changes.
Mesh Posted: Wed Feb 25 15:10:43 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  A news article I did think was kind of important.


Leaked Pentagon report warns climate change may bring famine, war: report
Sun Feb 22, 5:17 PM ET Add Politics -



LONDON (AFP) - A secret report prepared by the Pentagon (news - web sites) warns that climate change may lead to global catastrophe costing millions of lives and is a far greater threat than terrorism.








The report was ordered by an influential US Pentagon advisor but was covered up by "US defense chiefs" for four months, until it was "obtained" by the British weekly The Observer.


The leak promises to draw angry attention to US environmental and military policies, following Washington's rejection of the Kyoto Protocol (news - web sites) on climate change and President George W. Bush (news - web sites)'s skepticism about global warning -- a stance that has stunned scientists worldwide.


The Pentagon report, commissioned by Andrew Marshall, predicts that "abrupt climate change could bring the planet to the edge of anarchy as countries develop a nuclear threat to defend and secure dwindling food, water and energy supplies," The Observer reported.


The report, quoted in the paper, concluded: "Disruption and conflict will be endemic features of life.... Once again, warfare would define human life."


Its authors -- Peter Schwartz, a CIA (news - web sites) consultant and former head of planning at Royal Dutch/Shell Group, and Doug Randall of Global Business Network based in California -- said climate change should be considered "immediately" as a top political and military issue.


It "should be elevated beyond a scientific debate to a US national security concern", they were quoted as saying.


Some examples given of probable scenarios in the dramatic report include:


-- Britain will have winters similar to those in current-day Siberia as European temperatures drop off radically by 2020.


-- by 2007 violent storms will make large parts of the Netherlands uninhabitable and lead to a breach in the acqueduct system in California that supplies all water to densely populated southern California


-- Europe and the United States become "virtual fortresses" trying to keep out millions of migrants whose homelands have been wiped out by rising sea levels or made unfarmable by drought.


-- "catastrophic" shortages of potable water and energy will lead to widespread war by 2020.


Randall, one of the authors, called his findings "depressing stuff" and warned that it might even be too late to prevent future disasters.


"We don't know exactly where we are in the process. It could start tomorrow and we would not know for another five years," he told the paper.


Experts familiar with the report told the newspaper that the threat to global stability "vastly eclipses that of terrorism".


Taking environmental pollution and climate change into account in political and military strategy is a new, complicated and necessary challenge for leaders, Randall said.


"It is a national security threat that is unique because there is no enemy to point your guns at and we have no control over the threat," he said.





Coming from the Pentagon, normally a bastion of conservative politics, the report is expected to bring environmental issues to the fore in the US presidential race.

Last week the Union of Concerned Scientists, an influential and non-partisan group that includes 20 Nobel laureates, accused the Bush administration of having deliberately distorted scientific fact to serve its policy agenda and having "misled the public".

Its 38-page report, which it said took over a year to prepare and was not time to coincide with the campaign season, details how Washington "systematically" skewed government scientific studies, suppressed others, stacked panels with political and unqualified appointees and often refused to seek independent expertise on issues.

Critics of the report quoted by the New York Times denied there was deliberate misrepresentation and called it politically motivated.

The person behind the leaked Pentagon report, Andrew Marsall, cannot be accused of the same partisan politicking.

Marsall, 82, has been an advisor for the defense department for decades, and was described by The Observer as the author of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's plans for a major transformation of the US military.





 
FN Posted: Wed Feb 25 15:41:52 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  But why would America (the biggest energy consumer in the world, and also per capita) sign the Kyoto pact, right?


 
Asswipe Posted: Wed Feb 25 15:45:52 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  sweet, doesn't really note the causes of these problems though which annoys the fack outta me. umm, yeah... until i see some causes... bull shit, is my response.


 
FN Posted: Wed Feb 25 15:49:06 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I heard about this report as well.

Asswipe somehow I think you know at least some of the factors behind climate changes?


 
ifihadahif Posted: Wed Feb 25 15:50:27 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  yeah, and where is the fucking pentagon contingency plan for when a giant asteroid slams into the planet ?


 
FN Posted: Wed Feb 25 15:51:26 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>yeah, and where is the fucking pentagon contingency plan for when a giant asteroid slams into the planet ?

Yes hif, that is exactly the same thing.


 
Iamjustdancing. Posted: Wed Feb 25 16:48:10 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  yea and Y2K was supposed to destroy us all...



 
FN Posted: Wed Feb 25 17:29:47 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  WSU-Dave said:
>yea and Y2K was supposed to destroy us all...
>

Once more, shut the fuck up if yo don't know what you're talking about.


Really, how old are you, 12?


 
ifihadahif Posted: Wed Feb 25 17:42:12 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>WSU-Dave said:
>>yea and Y2K was supposed to destroy us all...
>>
>
>Once more, shut the fuck up if yo don't know what you're talking about.
>
>
>Really, how old are you, 12?

aren't you the one who says age should not be a factor in our discussions ?


 
ifihadahif Posted: Wed Feb 25 17:44:46 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  as a matter of fact this "leaked pentagon report" is no different than the asteroid contingency or they y2k thing.
The pentagon has a contigency plan for seemingly every possible scenario including climate change and an asteroid impact.



 
ifihadahif Posted: Wed Feb 25 17:46:06 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>as a matter of fact this "leaked pentagon report" is no different than the asteroid contingency or they y2k thing.
>The pentagon has a contigency plan for seemingly every possible scenario including climate change and an asteroid impact.
>
none of this means that it is probably going to happen or that they even think it might happen, only that it is possible. big deal.


 
FN Posted: Wed Feb 25 17:59:16 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>Christophe said:
>>WSU-Dave said:
>>>yea and Y2K was supposed to destroy us all...
>>>
>>
>>Once more, shut the fuck up if yo don't know what you're talking about.
>>
>>
>>Really, how old are you, 12?
>
>aren't you the one who says age should not be a factor in our discussions ?


Because I don't think I act like a 12-year old but he does.


 
Mesh Posted: Wed Feb 25 18:15:47 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  My thinking on it is, there will probably be some not so good effects on the enviroment in the future. But not near, no where near, as bad as that prediction, not near as soon, and it isnt inevitable.


 
Blackstar Posted: Wed Feb 25 21:54:43 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:
>doesn't really note the causes of these problems


a few years back i remember seeing stalite footage of harmful atmospheric emmisions. The US paled in comparison to Brazil and other parts of south america. the atlantic coast mainly.


 
Asswipe Posted: Wed Feb 25 23:42:27 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  i've heard the "global warming" shit was all displaced as natural changes in the earth. my environmental science teacher actually spoke of it calling it "global cooling" 'cause compared to the, not so distant, past, the earth is a lot cooler than it was.

so yeah, i'm not buying the whole "harmful atmospheric emmisions" slowly microwaving the polar icecaps. it's -30000 F during the summer there and they won't melt till it reaches 32 F. and this is going to suddenly happen w/ in the next 20 years? i'd imagine w/ semi-recent regulations and shit controlling the amount of dangerous chemical emissions, they would be lower than the past, and like i said: neg30000 F(no lie).

get bent


 
Iamjustdancing. Posted: Thu Feb 26 09:17:42 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>WSU-Dave said:
>>yea and Y2K was supposed to destroy us all...
>>
>
>Once more, shut the fuck up if yo don't know what you're talking about.
>
>
>Really, how old are you, 12?

Dude, i really don't wanna get into it with you. Just because you like calling people names doesn't make you cool. or popular. or even funny. (so maybe you should be the one growing up)


 
FN Posted: Thu Feb 26 10:14:20 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  WSU-Dave said:
>Christophe said:
>>WSU-Dave said:
>>>yea and Y2K was supposed to destroy us all...
>>>
>>
>>Once more, shut the fuck up if yo don't know what you're talking about.
>>
>>
>>Really, how old are you, 12?
>
>Dude, i really don't wanna get into it with you. Just because you like calling people names doesn't make you cool. or popular. or even funny. (so maybe you should be the one growing up)


Alright, I apologize, I should hit the ball and not the player.


One thing though: I don't believe in doing stuff to be cool/popular/whatever.


 
Sheoul Posted: Thu Feb 26 10:33:50 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>
>Because I don't think I act like a 12-year old but he does.

*cough* You act more like a child than most on this board.


 
FN Posted: Thu Feb 26 10:43:27 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Sheoul said:
>Christophe said:
>>
>>Because I don't think I act like a 12-year old but he does.
>
>*cough* You act more like a child than most on this board.

Because I disagree with you?

I wonder whose arguements are valued the most, yours or mine.


 
libra Posted: Thu Feb 26 12:33:28 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ok, i don't mean to butt into this argument. But I do have to say that Christophe definitely doesn't act like a 12 year old, he doesn't even act his own age. Before I knew he was 17, I thought he had to be older than me (i'm 18.) I figured he was in his twenties...

And I definitely value his arguments, he says things I'd like to say but can't cause I don't have the guts or the knowledge that he does.


 
Iamjustdancing. Posted: Thu Feb 26 14:03:41 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>Sheoul said:
>>Christophe said:
>>>
>>>Because I don't think I act like a 12-year old but he does.
>>
>>*cough* You act more like a child than most on this board.
>
>Because I disagree with you?
>
>I wonder whose arguements are valued the most, yours or mine.

how ironic. the reason why you call me names is because you obviosly dissagree with my opinions, yet you charge someone else with the same thing when it happens to you.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Feb 26 16:14:01 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  libra said:
>ok, i don't mean to butt into this argument. But I do have to say that Christophe definitely doesn't act like a 12 year old, he doesn't even act his own age. Before I knew he was 17, I thought he had to be older than me (i'm 18.) I figured he was in his twenties...
>
>And I definitely value his arguments, he says things I'd like to say but can't cause I don't have the guts or the knowledge that he does.

heheheh Christophe makes Libra wet . . .


 
FN Posted: Thu Feb 26 16:37:08 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  libra said:
>ok, i don't mean to butt into this argument. But I do have to say that Christophe definitely doesn't act like a 12 year old, he doesn't even act his own age. Before I knew he was 17, I thought he had to be older than me (i'm 18.) I figured he was in his twenties...
>
>And I definitely value his arguments, he says things I'd like to say but can't cause I don't have the guts or the knowledge that he does.


*blushes*

Glad to be of service milady ;o)


 
FN Posted: Thu Feb 26 16:37:45 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>libra said:
>>ok, i don't mean to butt into this argument. But I do have to say that Christophe definitely doesn't act like a 12 year old, he doesn't even act his own age. Before I knew he was 17, I thought he had to be older than me (i'm 18.) I figured he was in his twenties...
>>
>>And I definitely value his arguments, he says things I'd like to say but can't cause I don't have the guts or the knowledge that he does.
>
>heheheh Christophe makes Libra wet . . .


Hearing stuff like that never gets tiresome you know.


 
libra Posted: Thu Feb 26 18:18:13 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>ifihadahif said:
>>libra said:
>>>ok, i don't mean to butt into this argument. But I do have to say that Christophe definitely doesn't act like a 12 year old, he doesn't even act his own age. Before I knew he was 17, I thought he had to be older than me (i'm 18.) I figured he was in his twenties...
>>>
>>>And I definitely value his arguments, he says things I'd like to say but can't cause I don't have the guts or the knowledge that he does.
>>
>>heheheh Christophe makes Libra wet . . .
>
>
>Hearing stuff like that never gets tiresome you know.

yea, i know what you mean.


 



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