Generation Terrorists » Forum
Sign up   |   Start new thread   |   Lost password?   |   Edit profile   |   Member List   |   myGT   |   Blog
Keyword
From
To
 

Christianity and other beliefs revived
Christian Posted: Fri Mar 19 14:55:46 2004  
  Yes, hell even my NAME is "Christian"...but you are ALL assuming that we control our destiny...let's just say we are all predestined? Let's say that events are fixed and that we have no control over them...then what difference, really, does it make what we believe in?????


 
trogdor57 Posted: Fri Mar 19 15:24:29 2004  
  Christian said:
>Yes, hell even my NAME is "Christian"...but you are ALL assuming that we control our destiny...

Yep, it's called free will. This is why people can still do bad things.

let's just say we are all predestined?Let's say that events are fixed and
that we have no control over them...

OK

then what difference, really, does it make what we believe in?????

I'm not exactly sure. I suppose the point of believing isn't to find out what our destiny is. It's to have something there that we can turn to in times of trouble, to ask for those things we cannot do ourselves, etc.


 
FN Posted: Fri Mar 19 16:18:30 2004  
  If things are fixed already anyway there's no use in any 'help' it won't make any difference anyway


 
marsteller Posted: Fri Mar 19 16:54:59 2004  
  if things are fixed already, then we have no control over what happens...so no matter what you believe, it's not really your choice...and you're going to end up a certain way whether you like it or not.


 
Christian Posted: Fri Mar 19 19:44:22 2004  
  christophe...Marsteller...EXACTLY...what I mean...and yeah we DO have "free will" but it's about the freedom to "perceive" and not to "act"


 
trogdor57 Posted: Fri Mar 19 21:24:25 2004  
  Christian said:
>christophe...Marsteller...EXACTLY...what I mean...and yeah we DO have "free will" but it's about the freedom to "perceive" and not to "act"

What exactly do you mean by percieve. That all we can do is sit on the sidelines and commment however we want, but when push comes to shove, we can't do thing one to change the outcome? Why can't we have charge of our own destinies? What kind of God would he be if he didn't let us do what we want? I believe He's got a plan for every person, but we have free choice, and don't have to follow that plan. Hence, bad things happen. However, when we accept Christ, we gain an understanding of that plan. Not only that, but a desire to fulfill that plan.


 
webmaster Posted: Fri Mar 19 23:16:38 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>then what difference, really, does it make what we believe in?????
>
>I'm not exactly sure. I suppose the point of believing isn't to find out what our destiny is. It's to have something there that we can turn to in times of trouble, to ask for those things we cannot do ourselves, etc.

I am disturbed (not just by your statement) but by what I have also witnessed in the people around me. When times are troubled, they 'remember' God, go to church, read the Bible and pray. But when times are good, I don't see them doing as much.


 
Mouse Posted: Sat Mar 20 00:32:03 2004  
  Trogdor, You say god has a plan for us and when we don't follow that plan 'bad things happen'. Plenty of people don't believe in god and do wonderful things, make discoveries, help people. Is that not part of the plan? Does not believing in the same god as you make people unable to be good and just?
My main question, for every religion, is why do you say it is wrong to believe something else? Why do you have to drag your friends to church and preach at them while they try to be polite? Why should you hate me for not being like you?
Mouse


 
iggy Posted: Sat Mar 20 05:04:32 2004  
  webmaster said:
elves, etc.
>
>I am disturbed (not just by your statement) but by what I have also witnessed in the people around me. When times are troubled, they 'remember' God, go to church, read the Bible and pray. But when times are good, I don't see them doing as much.


oh them fair weathered christians.

haha i see them all the time


 
FN Posted: Sat Mar 20 05:28:50 2004  
  What is that plan that you want to fulfil then trogdor?


 
trogdor57 Posted: Sat Mar 20 07:43:02 2004  
  webmaster said:
>trogdor57 said:
>>then what difference, really, does it make what we believe in?????
>>
>>I'm not exactly sure. I suppose the point of believing isn't to find out what our destiny is. It's to have something there that we can turn to in times of trouble, to ask for those things we cannot do ourselves, etc.
>
>I am disturbed (not just by your statement) but by what I have also witnessed in the people around me. When times are troubled, they 'remember' God, go to church, read the Bible and pray. But when times are good, I don't see them doing as much.

Yes, I agree, SOME christians only turn to God when things are bad, but other times, when in a good mood, they will completely forget. Some do just the opposite. They say they believe in God, but when things don't go their way, they turn 180 degrees. It's sad, but true.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Sat Mar 20 07:49:34 2004  
  Mouse said:
>Trogdor, You say god has a plan for us and when we don't follow that plan 'bad things happen'.

No, I'm not. I'm saying God has a plan for us all. Some choose not to follow this plan. This does not mean that it is bad, just not in His design.

>Plenty of people don't believe in god and do wonderful things, make discoveries, help people. Is that not part of the plan?

A fair point. Just because someone does not believe in God doesn't make them a bad person, and they are still helping with God's plan, but they aren't aware.

Does not believing in the same god as you make people unable to be good and just?

Of course not. What seperates us is that in the end, those who've accepted Christ, go to Heaven. It does not matter how much good they did, without Jesus, those things they did will have zero effect in the afterlife. However, we can actually gain "treasures" in Heaven if we do accept Christ. A sort of bonus, not necessary or required to get into Heaven, but certainly nice.

>My main question, for every religion, is why do you say it is wrong to believe something else? Why do you have to drag your friends to church and preach at them while they try to be polite? Why should you hate me for not being like you?
>Mouse

Oh, I don't hate non-christians. To be honest, it's more of a grief that people don't have what I have. It may seem wierd, and you may hate me for saying this, but it's true. I want everyone to get the same feeling I do. It's a certainty I can't always back up, but that's what believing is, isn't it?


 
trogdor57 Posted: Sat Mar 20 07:50:01 2004  
  chanz said:
>webmaster said:
>elves, etc.
>>
>>I am disturbed (not just by your statement) but by what I have also witnessed in the people around me. When times are troubled, they 'remember' God, go to church, read the Bible and pray. But when times are good, I don't see them doing as much.
>
>
>oh them fair weathered christians.
>
>haha i see them all the time

Yes, they can be annoying.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Sat Mar 20 07:50:37 2004  
  Christophe said:
>What is that plan that you want to fulfil then trogdor?

To lead as many people as I can to Christ. Same as any Christian.


 
FN Posted: Sat Mar 20 08:08:15 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>Christophe said:
>>What is that plan that you want to fulfil then trogdor?
>
>To lead as many people as I can to Christ. Same as any Christian.

Why.


 
FN Posted: Sat Mar 20 08:13:03 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>Of course not. What seperates us is that in the end, those who've accepted Christ, go to Heaven. It does not matter how much good they did, without Jesus, those things they did will have zero effect in the afterlife. However, we can actually gain "treasures" in Heaven if we do accept Christ. A sort of bonus, not necessary or required to get into Heaven, but certainly nice.


Really, what the fuck are you talking about?

You say that only people who have 'accepted christ' go to heaven and then you say you gain a little extra in heaven if you've accepted christ.

Also, who told you about any 'treasures' and doesn't that go against living a simple life and such.

You're syaing there is an elite and a 'common folk' in heaven?



And another thing, every sin is forgivable, right? Even murdering people and what not, but not believing in god would be the only thing that isn't? And you don't see anything fucked up about that?

Basicly what that comes down to is: You can kill people as long as you believe in god, and you might still get a chance to go to heaven, but no matter how much 'good' you do in your life, if you don't believe in god you'll go to hell.

Yes, I can see the logic behind that.


 
misszero Posted: Sat Mar 20 08:46:59 2004  
  holy shit trogdor (no pun intended)

my jaw dropped when I read the whole 'only those who have accepted jesus go to heaven' statement. its exactly that kinda of thinking that told mothers of stillborns and infants who died pre-baptism that their babies would be caught for all eternity in purgatory. fuck you hard in the ass. that makes me so goddamn mad. (as you can tell)

i like god. i like jesus, and I like the message. But you fucking missed the point, trogdor. and for that, I think its more likely you'll burn in hell, you condescending bastard.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Sat Mar 20 09:04:33 2004  
  misszero said:
>holy shit trogdor (no pun intended)
>
>my jaw dropped when I read the whole 'only those who have accepted jesus go to heaven' statement. its exactly that kinda of thinking that told mothers of stillborns and infants who died pre-baptism that their babies would be caught for all eternity in purgatory. fuck you hard in the ass. that makes me so goddamn mad. (as you can tell)
>
>i like god. i like jesus, and I like the message. But you fucking missed the point, trogdor. and for that, I think its more likely you'll burn in hell, you condescending bastard.


Woah, woah, woah, I think someone misread me, but I'm not sure which part of what I said is being interpreted wrong. Someone please tell me. I'm a little bit more than confused.


 
marsteller Posted: Sat Mar 20 09:10:34 2004  
  haha, trogdor's goin to hell.


 
misszero Posted: Sat Mar 20 09:10:58 2004  
  trogdor57>It does not matter how much good they did, without Jesus, those things they did will have zero effect in the afterlife.


this statement is shit.

i came on strong, but it provoked everything i hate about religion.

i'm not going to get into it with you. you're too deluded, and I'll just want to convert you.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Sat Mar 20 09:12:23 2004  
  Christophe said:
>trogdor57 said:
>>Of course not. What seperates us is that in the end, those who've accepted Christ, go to Heaven. It does not matter how much good they did, without Jesus, those things they did will have zero effect in the afterlife. However, we can actually gain "treasures" in Heaven if we do accept Christ. A sort of bonus, not necessary or required to get into Heaven, but certainly nice.
>
>
>Really, what the fuck are you talking about?
>
>You say that only people who have 'accepted christ' go to heaven and then you say you gain a little extra in heaven if you've accepted christ.
>
No, you gain extra treasures if you do good works.

>Also, who told you about any 'treasures' and doesn't that go against living a simple life and such.
>
What?

>You're syaing there is an elite and a 'common folk' in heaven?
>
No, there's no separation in heaven. It's a little complicated. Everyone in heaven is, in a sense, high class. Each person gets a mansion, and all sorts of stuff. But those who have done all they can to spread God's word and do good things will earn extra stuff.
>
>And another thing, every sin is forgivable, right? Even murdering people and what not, but not believing in god would be the only thing that isn't? And you don't see anything fucked up about that?
>
Yes, but most people who really understand Christ and his message wouldn't murder, but yes, that's how it works. And no, I don't think it's f-ed up, accepting Christ ought to be relatively simple, but people make it so much more complicated than it is. And for that simple, though life-changing, act, you can stay in heaven for all eternity.

>Basicly what that comes down to is: You can kill people as long as you believe in god, and you might still get a chance to go to heaven, but no matter how much 'good' you do in your life, if you don't believe in god you'll go to hell.

Yep.

>Yes, I can see the logic behind that.

Thanx for degrading my religion. ^_^ It's been fun!


 
trogdor57 Posted: Sat Mar 20 09:14:58 2004  
  misszero said:
>trogdor57>It does not matter how much good they did, without Jesus, those things they did will have zero effect in the afterlife.

And I stick with my statement

>this statement is shit.

Sorry to hear that.

>i came on strong, but it provoked everything i hate about religion.

Such as?

>i'm not going to get into it with you. you're too deluded,

Jee, let's not be too nice, now...

>and I'll just want to convert you.

To what?


 
misszero Posted: Sat Mar 20 09:22:21 2004  
  trogdor57 said:

>To what?

reality.

seriously. next you'll be telling us people in heaven play harps and shit. you're so naive, and like some little kid learning about heaven in grade school.

mansions. pfffffffft.

that whole image of heaven is a simplified thing taught to give kids an understanding of the goodness of heaven. its a freakin' metaphor.

but look, you have your view, i'll have mine, and I'll have my afterlife, and you can have your imagining.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Sat Mar 20 09:25:01 2004  
  misszero said:
>trogdor57 said:
>
>>To what?
>
>reality.
>
>seriously. next you'll be telling us people in heaven play harps and shit. you're so naive, and like some little kid learning about heaven in grade school.
>
>mansions. pfffffffft.
>
>that whole image of heaven is a simplified thing taught to give kids an understanding of the goodness of heaven. its a freakin' metaphor.
>
>but look, you have your view, i'll have mine, and I'll have my afterlife, and you can have your imagining.

Um.... Actually, this all in the bible.


 
misszero Posted: Sat Mar 20 09:28:32 2004  
  so is a whole bunch of stuff.

30 silver pieces is the acceptable and holy rate at which to sell your daughter into slavery.

i better remember that, seeing that everything in the bible is true and literal.

bah. you're itching to fight because you're so convinced you're right. wait a few years, dude. you're, what? 13? 14?

i'm through with talking about this to someone who has their hands over their ears and is humming loudly. ignorance is bliss.


 
marsteller Posted: Sat Mar 20 09:34:58 2004  
  just because something's in the Bible doesn't make it true. duh.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Sat Mar 20 09:41:40 2004  
  Perhaps so.

By the way, I'm sixteen.

And don't think I have my hands over my ears. I don't just swallow what's given to me. Everyone seems to think so, but I'm not some mindless drone.

I've thought over this, and I know it's right. I may not be able to prove it, but I do. I try to understand other religions. Perhaps I don't try incredibly hard, but I do want to. That way, I'm not just arguing a blank point. I can compare and contrast.

I don't have a lot of experience yet, and that could be why you guys are just saying, "Oh, you're young, you'll grow out of it." etc. And I'm aware that one day I'll probably experience something that will try my faith. And it will be heart-wrenching. But that's why I try to remain as faithful as possible at such a young age, so I can make that process easier.


 
FN Posted: Sat Mar 20 10:03:31 2004  
  Lol.


I'll try not to make fun of you man, really, so don't take it too bad if by some chance you feel offended, I tried to avoid it.



What I wonder is, how do you know that you'l get mansions in heaven? Who told you, and how do they know? Have they been there and have they come back to tell you everybody in heaven has a mansion and is 'high class'?

How can you be 'high class' if there is no other class to compare to?

So good people gain extra treasures huh.

What are you going to do with treasures in heaven, burry them and play pirate?

If some have 'treasures' and others don't, than that is a difference so people aren't equal in heaven.

And it stuns me that you see a religious rapist/murderer as somebody who deserves to go to heaven more than somebody who has done numerous good things while he or she doesn't believe in god.

So heaven is filled with religious convicts and hell is filled with non-religious good people?


If everything in the bible is true you can't do anything right because of all the contradictory stuff in it (see some links on the site to exact bible pages and such).


>I don't just swallow what's given to me. Everyone seems to think so, but I'm not some mindless drone.

Oh really, I thought that a while back you said that you got everything from 'advisers' and that you live in a place where everybody is more or less a religious fanatic (at least if they believe and say the same stuff you do).




Ignorance is bliss indeed, but the longer you stay in your imaginary bubble the higher you'll float and the deeper you'll fall when it bursts.



Don't have to take my word for it though, you'll see.


 
mat_j Posted: Sat Mar 20 12:27:58 2004  
  Jees trogdor, you have a pretty literal idea of heaven, that mansions thing is the most laughable piece of bullshit i've heard in ages, which one of your witch doctor clergymen told you that horse shlong.

Don't you think heaven is a bit more abstract than that. I'd like to think heaven was more like filling in things which we can't experience here on Earth, something a little more beyond our understanding than a fucking golden mansion covered in jewels in the clouds!!


 
marsteller Posted: Sat Mar 20 16:28:50 2004  
  trog, where you from, anyway?


 
trogdor57 Posted: Sat Mar 20 18:33:51 2004  
  OK, maybe it's not a literal mansion, One never knows. I sure don't. I'm just interpreting. I think it's true that the Bible isn't completely literal, but that doesn't mean the whole thing isn't. As for heaven, I guess there's no point in arguing about it, because only the dead know it, and we have no way of asking (least, not completely foolproof) so I won't debate that any longer.

As for the treasures thing, I have no clue what the "Treasures" are, they could be gold, or monkeys, who knows? However, when in heaven, it's not gonna make a difference whether someone has more or less, at least not to anyone else. I guess it's another one of those, "Too celestial to comprehend," kinda things.

I'm from Virginia, if that matters at all.

I don't believe that a rapist/murderer as someone who "Deserves" to go to heaven. No one deserves to, because no one's perfect. But because of God's saving grace, we can go to heaven because we accept Christ as our savior. However, it bothers me that you keep bringing that up, because I don't believe a true Christian would be a murderer/rapist.


 
Sheoul Posted: Sun Mar 21 03:39:56 2004  
  If you really love God, you would not WANT to do wrong. If you do wrong believing that your sins will be forgiven later, you are a fool. Only if you truly accept God into your heart and are genuinely remorseful will you be forgiven.

You all talk about what hypocrites Christians are, and say you hate the way they try to convert everyone. Some "Christians" are hypocrites. But there are so many more who live Christianity. All of you do so much Christian-bashing. By your own standards, you are no better than the people you criticise.

Trogdor: You appear to have a very literal view about Christianity. The greatest treasure we can ever have is the love and peace of God in our lives. It's encouraging to see someone as passionate about their beliefs as you. You won't grow out of it. If you love God the way you say you do, you will grow into Him. Thanks for being...


 
DanSRose Posted: Sun Mar 21 05:20:51 2004  
  How do you know it's Christ? How do you know if its not really the karmaic cycle of birth and rebirth?

'The Bible and Christ say so' never works as an explaination as they have to be read a metaphors on how to lead a good life. Metaphors that were written between 1900 and 1000 years ago, as much of the New Testament was written and rewritten by Church elders for whim and purpose.


 
dan632 Posted: Sun Mar 21 06:30:19 2004  
  if god has a predetermined path for us, shouldn't we be able to travel through time to any particular point on that path? if time travel becomes possible then this theory would be proved, and god would be proven to exist.
that's what Donnie Darko is all about


 
trogdor57 Posted: Sun Mar 21 08:06:57 2004  
  Sheoul said:
>If you really love God, you would not WANT to do wrong. If you do wrong believing that your sins will be forgiven later, you are a fool. Only if you truly accept God into your heart and are genuinely remorseful will you be forgiven.
>
>You all talk about what hypocrites Christians are, and say you hate the way they try to convert everyone. Some "Christians" are hypocrites. But there are so many more who live Christianity. All of you do so much Christian-bashing. By your own standards, you are no better than the people you criticise.
>
>Trogdor: You appear to have a very literal view about Christianity. The greatest treasure we can ever have is the love and peace of God in our lives. It's encouraging to see someone as passionate about their beliefs as you. You won't grow out of it. If you love God the way you say you do, you will grow into Him. Thanks for being...

Thanks, man. I don't exactly have a... way with words, so I sometimes have some trouble getting my point across without screwing something else up.

By the way, though, I'm not a literal person. I know the rocks aren't about to start bowing, and that tree's aren't suddenly going to clap their hands, and I'm sure most of Revalation was just from a man's point of view, who didn't know how else to describe what he saw. However, once again, that doesn't mean that the whole Bible is a metaphor, DanSRose.


 
marsteller Posted: Sun Mar 21 13:38:04 2004  
  im sure some parts of the bible are literal and correct, maybe some of the histories in there are factual...but most of the stories are actually taken from other cultures and earlier times, especially the old testament stuff. early cultures had Creation myths and flood stories too, all over the planet. also, you've gotta take into account that the final editors/publishers of the bible probably had their own agenda, and therefore tweaked some stories, added and deleted some, to suit their own ends. if you read the bible, you'll notice an incredible amount of gaps, information just left out with no explanation. so even if you decide to accept the Bible at all, you have to realize that most of the writings aren't real stories, just fables and myths made up to teach morals and explain histories.

*History is a set of lies agreed upon.* - Napoleon


 
Asswipe Posted: Sun Mar 21 16:01:05 2004  
  Sheoul said:
>Trogdor: You appear to have a very literal view about Christianity. The greatest treasure we can ever have is the love and peace of God in our lives. It's encouraging to see someone as passionate about their beliefs as you. You won't grow out of it. If you love God the way you say you do, you will grow into Him. Thanks for being...

clarify for me please what you mean when you say "loving God" and that it's the "greatest treasure"? How does one go about loving God, in your opinion? Trogdor answer me on this too, please.


 
mat_j Posted: Sun Mar 21 16:06:01 2004  
  Isn't there even an arguemnt that 'eternity' mentioned in relation to our stay in heaven and hell was actually a Greek word meaning a thousand years and was used to signify an immesurable amount of time but not for ever.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Sun Mar 21 21:03:11 2004  
  Asswipe said:
>Sheoul said:
>>Trogdor: You appear to have a very literal view about Christianity. The greatest treasure we can ever have is the love and peace of God in our lives. It's encouraging to see someone as passionate about their beliefs as you. You won't grow out of it. If you love God the way you say you do, you will grow into Him. Thanks for being...
>
>clarify for me please what you mean when you say "loving God" and that it's the "greatest treasure"? How does one go about loving God, in your opinion? Trogdor answer me on this too, please.

It means that someone is totally commited to Christianity, willing to do anything for God. Also, a person in a deep relationship with God can feel his presence, and get a very calming sense.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Sun Mar 21 21:05:35 2004  
  marsteller said:
>im sure some parts of the bible are literal and correct, maybe some of the histories in there are factual...but most of the stories are actually taken from other cultures and earlier times, especially the old testament stuff. early cultures had Creation myths and flood stories too, all over the planet. also, you've gotta take into account that the final editors/publishers of the bible probably had their own agenda, and therefore tweaked some stories, added and deleted some, to suit their own ends. if you read the bible, you'll notice an incredible amount of gaps, information just left out with no explanation. so even if you decide to accept the Bible at all, you have to realize that most of the writings aren't real stories, just fables and myths made up to teach morals and explain histories.
>
>*History is a set of lies agreed upon.* - Napoleon

A very common misconception. The bible was written as a Book of Faith, not History or Science. The pieces left out were probably not important to the core of Christianity. And another thing, true enough, there would be people who would change the Bible for their own agenda, but Manuscipts have been found and translated, and still contain the same basic material.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Sun Mar 21 21:06:40 2004  
  Please, for the love of God, no one take offense to this:

I love you all. God bless ^_^


 
marsteller Posted: Sun Mar 21 22:04:41 2004  
  >A very common misconception. The bible was written as a Book of Faith, not History or Science. The pieces left out were probably not important to the core of Christianity. And another thing, true enough, there would be people who would change the Bible for their own agenda, but Manuscipts have been found and translated, and still contain the same basic material.

that's a load of shit. you're way off.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Sun Mar 21 22:38:22 2004  
  Why is it that I'm one of the only non-offensive ones here? It's like, jeez, gimme a break, you can state your points without being complete *gasp* asses. Have a little compassion!


 
Asswipe Posted: Mon Mar 22 00:11:05 2004  
  trogdor57 said:

>It means that someone is totally commited to Christianity, willing to do anything for God. Also, a person in a deep relationship with God can feel his presence, and get a very calming sense.

wow, vagueness? what are you willing to do for God and what have you done for him? does he thank you? what is God's role for you? do you believe Pres Bush was delivered to the world by God in order for good, one day, to triumph over evil?

where do you feel God's presence? and A calming sense? I get a pretty good one of those from smoking a bowl.


 
webmaster Posted: Mon Mar 22 00:15:35 2004  
  I prefer cosy apartments to houses and mansions. If I went to heaven, does that mean that I will be miserable?

trogdor57 said:

>A very common misconception. The bible was written as a Book of Faith, not History or Science. The pieces left out were probably not important to the core of Christianity.

You say 'probably', which means there is no absolute certainty. How do you know for sure that nothing important was left out? And what if, indeed, something important was left out? What are the implications?

You see, this is one of the fundamental flaws of the Bible. We are speaking of the Word of God. Not some romance novel or kid's story book. The Word of God. Which was decided by man - or you might say, the Church - but as we have found out over the years, the Church is not infallible.

Shouldn't there be only one Word? Why the different versions? Is one version truer or better than another? What if I read and believe the wrong version? Am I going to hell? There are even different versions of the Ten Commandments. Which should I believe? The Protestant, the Catholic or the Hebrew? The first set of stone tablets in Exodus 20, or the second in Exodus 34?

The Bible is filled with parables and riddles. Why did God make it open to interpretation? What happens if we interprete something wrongly, despite our best intentions? Why is it translatable? What happens if something important got lost in translation?


>And another thing, true enough, there would be people who would change the Bible for their own agenda, but Manuscipts have been found and translated, and still contain the same basic material.

You are contradicting yourself. What, then, of the stuff that have been changed? How do we know what is true (the same basic material), and what has been changed? Maybe that's why some people practise selective reading? Keeping some commandments and ignoring others? If the Bible is what it is said to be, then it is a dangerous book filled with traps, waiting to spring on anyone who reads it wrongly.


>What seperates us is that in the end, those who've accepted Christ, go to Heaven. It does not matter how much good they did, without Jesus, those things they did will have zero effect in the afterlife.

If you're telling me that Mahatma Ghandhi, Mother Theresa (if she weren't a Catholic) and the Dalai Lama are/will be burning in hell, then it is a narcissistic and selfish god which I have no intention of worshipping.


 
misszero Posted: Mon Mar 22 01:00:55 2004  
  w00t, step up, JQ!

i was only being offensive because i found what you were saying was offensive.


 
webmaster Posted: Mon Mar 22 02:56:56 2004  
  misszero said:
>w00t, step up, JQ!
>
>i was only being offensive because i found what you were saying was offensive.

Erm... now I'm confused. I was replying to torgdor57.

Did I offend you in any way? A thousand apologies. What did I say which offended you?


 
Sheoul Posted: Mon Mar 22 04:55:27 2004  
  Asswipe said:
>wow, vagueness? what are you willing to do for God and what have you done for him? does he thank you? what is God's role for you? do you believe Pres Bush was delivered to the world by God in order for good, one day, to triumph over evil?
>
>where do you feel God's presence? and A calming sense? I get a pretty good one of those from smoking a bowl.

Have you ever loved anything Asswipe? I mean REALLY loved. Something material? A family member? A friend? God's love is sooo much stonger.

It's pretty hard to descibe. You have to feel it. It's perfect contentment.


 
Sheoul Posted: Mon Mar 22 05:00:42 2004  
  webmaster said:
>You say 'probably', which means there is no absolute certainty. How do you know for sure that nothing important was left out? And what if, indeed, something important was left out? What are the implications?
>
>You see, this is one of the fundamental flaws of the Bible. We are speaking of the Word of God. Not some romance novel or kid's story book. The Word of God. Which was decided by man - or you might say, the Church - but as we have found out over the years, the Church is not infallible.

The church is not infallible. God is. I have faith that the Bible is His word.


 
misszero Posted: Mon Mar 22 05:54:37 2004  
  nah, you didn't. I should have separated my two statements more. the second part refers to trog. the first part is pure encouragement and big cuddles for being articulate, unlike me. hehe


 
Christian Posted: Mon Mar 22 07:49:36 2004  
  hee hee hee....(i KNEW it...) hee hee hee :-)


 
webmaster Posted: Mon Mar 22 10:36:45 2004  
  Sheoul said:
>The church is not infallible. God is. I have faith that the Bible is His word.

God is infallible. But man and the church aren't. Why should I believe the people who wrote and compiled the Bible. Just because *they* say that I should?

God is infallible. But he should have picked a better vessel, a better method, to bring his Word across to us.


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 10:47:47 2004  
  What still bugs me is that you say there can be rapist and murderers in heaven while some/a lot of good people will go to hell just they don't believe in your god on an egotrip.

'love me or burn'

Doesn't that mess with free will in a way since you get punished for not doing what 'he' thinks is best for you?


I also haven't gotten a clear answer to the treasure thing. Again, what good are 'treasures' in heaven.


What you also said was this: If you dont believe in christ you won't go to heaven, but when you're in heaven and you believe in christ you get extra treasures.

What the fuck is that?



Also, what's the complete nonsense about just 'believing' while ignoring straight and simple facts like that the bible is a collection of earlier and other stories of other religions.


Another question I'd like the religious people here to answer: do you believe in evolution?

If not, how do you explain dinosaurs?

How do you explain the fact that in the bible the earth and so on and humans were created at almost the same time while humans have only been around for a few million years?

If you do believe in evolution, one of the most basic believes and stories in the bible falls apart. Also, if so, was god there with the dinosaurs and are there any dinosaurs in heaven? (lol)

If people are so important and unique and what not, why aren't we the center of the universe, or even of our own galaxy or solar system?


Why do we have to believe in god, what does 'he' get out of it? And if he doesn't get anything out of it or doesn't want anything in return why even bother creating stuff?


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 10:49:47 2004  
  Christophe said:
>Why do we have to believe in god, what does 'he' get out of it? And if he doesn't get anything out of it or doesn't want anything in return why even bother creating stuff?

and punishing people if they don't act like he likes




It's called sadism.


 
webmaster Posted: Mon Mar 22 10:54:30 2004  
  misszero said:
>nah, you didn't. I should have separated my two statements more. the second part refers to trog. the first part is pure encouragement and big cuddles for being articulate, unlike me. hehe

Ahhh... :)


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 11:53:35 2004  
  Christophe said:
>It's called sadism.


Talking about sadism, I updated my picture.


 
addi Posted: Mon Mar 22 12:27:35 2004  
  Christophe said:

>Talking about sadism, I updated my picture.

The chicks are back! : )

*if only he would smile a little


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 12:30:19 2004  
  addison said:
>*if only he would smile a little


People keep telling me I should smile when they take a picture of me but I refuse to smile on command.

I never smile when I know a picture is taken, it seems so fake.


 
addi Posted: Mon Mar 22 12:57:34 2004  
  i know what you mean. it's still a good pic. if i had any gay tendencies I'm sure I'd be excited
just find someone that will take some when you're not looking, and maybe they'd accidentaly catch you in a genuine smile.
or if it's forced just think of something that would put a smile on your face...like Bush winning the election this fall..no, wait, bad example...
like taking a holiday to the french rivera and bumping into Libra and her little birds on a topless beach. that would put a real smile on your face.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Mon Mar 22 13:20:04 2004  
  Christophe said:
>What still bugs me is that you say there can be rapist and murderers in heaven while some/a lot of good people will go to hell just they don't believe in your god on an egotrip.
>
>'love me or burn'
>
>Doesn't that mess with free will in a way since you get punished for not doing what 'he' thinks is best for you?



>I also haven't gotten a clear answer to the treasure thing. Again, what good are 'treasures' in heaven.
>
>
>What you also said was this: If you dont believe in christ you won't go to heaven, but when you're in heaven and you believe in christ you get extra treasures.
>
>What the fuck is that?
>
You misread me. If you believe in Christ, you go to heaven. If you do good things, and believe in Christ, you get treasures.
>
>Also, what's the complete nonsense about just 'believing' while ignoring straight and simple facts like that the bible is a collection of earlier and other stories of other religions.

You're contradicting yourself. The point of belief is looking past "facts." Of course, I don't see them as facts. But that's me.

>Another question I'd like the religious people here to answer: do you believe in evolution?

Yep

>If not, how do you explain dinosaurs?

>How do you explain the fact that in the bible the earth and so on and humans were created at almost the same time while humans have only been around for a few million years?

It's like I said before, the Bible is a book of faith. It doesn't have to say anything about Dinosaurs because it's not necessary. Another thing, you're assuming that everything in the Bible is only a few thousand, but the Bible never says exact dates. It's possible that things in the Bible are as old as 1,000,000 years.

>If you do believe in evolution, one of the most basic believes and stories in the bible falls apart. Also, if so, was god there with the dinosaurs and are there any dinosaurs in heaven? (lol)

How so?
>
>If people are so important and unique and what not, why aren't we the center of the universe, or even of our own galaxy or solar system?

What's the point of that? Oooh, we're the center of the universe, what does that accomplish? Maybe the planets are in this order so they don't crash into each other, or so we can remember that cute little phrase about Pizza, who knows?

>Why do we have to believe in god, what does 'he' get out of it? And if he doesn't get anything out of it or doesn't want anything in return why even bother creating stuff?

He does get something out of it. It makes him happy to see us happy. Basically, it was boring whith nothing there. In short, because he could.


 
Iamjustdancing. Posted: Mon Mar 22 13:26:14 2004  
  Heh i was thinking long and hard one day about space and time and God and all that good stuff. Here is the big question i came up with. What if we fucked up the earth so bad, or just got a bug up our ass to move to some distant planet or the moon or something. Then, God came back to earth and was like 'shit' where did they all go! I mean the bible referes only to the earth right? So what happens if 'the rapture' comes and we are all somewhere else? I mean wouldn't that be some funny shit. :P

Anyway i totally agree JQ. I have known many great jewish people, and Rabbi's and people who have no belief in a greater being, but they live a 'better' life than most christians claim to. I forget where i saw this quote.. probably here but it is perfect for this discussion 'THere are 1000 religions out there and every one of them thinks that the other 999 are wrong, and not only wrong but put there by satin himself' .. Its great to have faith and all that fun stuff, but keep your grubby self serving religions to yourself, and let people find their savior in their own way.


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 13:33:30 2004  
  So 'he' created us as toys because 'he' was bored?


If you want to be a tamagotchi feel free to do so but I'm nobody's pet.




So you believe in evolution and at the same time you believe in the fact that humans were created instantaneously?


And looking past "facts" is saying that the world is round instead of flat; it's not saying look, 2 pencils, but I believe there are 3 of them and since I believe it it must be like that.


My point is that humans are supposed to be the center of the universe since they're above everything, isn't god the center of yours? So if we're so important then why aren't we in the center of everything?


And again, what's up with those treasures? What good are they in heaven and how do they not create upepr and lower classes?


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 13:36:50 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>It's possible that things in the Bible are as old as 1,000,000 years.


Ah yes, that explains everything.


I'd like to remind you though that there was life before that.

You claim to believe in evolution so you should know as well.


You think all species were created at the same time yet you believe in evolution and you call me contradictory?


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 13:38:15 2004  
  addison said:
>or if it's forced just think of something that would put a smile on your face...like Bush winning the election this fall..no, wait, bad example...


I would laugh actually.

>like taking a holiday to the french rivera and bumping into Libra and her little birds on a topless beach. that would put a real smile on your face.


But that would be more effective 8oP


 
Iamjustdancing. Posted: Mon Mar 22 13:40:51 2004  
  Well, making an assumption that there is a right and wrong religion... I just hope that the Mormons aren't right.

(heh as i horribly believe there is no right and wrong in this matter)


 
webmaster Posted: Mon Mar 22 13:42:35 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>Basically, it was boring whith nothing there.

Alright. You are stating this as a fact. Who told you this? I don't remember reading it in the Bible.


 
Iamjustdancing. Posted: Mon Mar 22 13:44:39 2004  
  then the question is... who created God, and what did he create stuff into? Where did he get his materials?! start thinking about that and you are bound to overload and fall asleep or something.


 
addi Posted: Mon Mar 22 13:56:03 2004  
  Iamjustdancing. said:
> I just hope that the Mormons aren't right.

I know what you mean . I hope the snake handlers aren't right either!

My home town celebrates Whacking Day (like Springfield in The Simpsons). I've whacked the snake many times in my life, for which I would surely be hell bound.


 
webmaster Posted: Mon Mar 22 14:01:25 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>Another thing, you're assuming that everything in the Bible is only a few thousand, but the Bible never says exact dates. It's possible that things in the Bible are as old as 1,000,000 years.

1 million years is a blink of an eye and it is still too short a time-span to allow for what we understand of geology and evolution.

The reason why we assume the age of young earth of 5000 - 6000 years is using the very genealogical data given by the Bible.

Christians have stood by this estimate and tried to refute the theory of evolution, and even carbon dating. And when they failed, they then say, ok, ok, so it's millions or billions of years. 'Day' means 'yom' in Hebrew and 'yom' could have meant 'ages', or a long period of time.

Stop twisting the Scripture.


 
antartica Posted: Mon Mar 22 14:08:49 2004  
  addison said:
>i know what you mean. it's still a good pic. if i had any gay tendencies I'm sure I'd be excited

you don't? drats!... haha...
i'll stick to poisonous flowers... =P


 
antartica Posted: Mon Mar 22 14:14:32 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>You misread me. If you believe in Christ, you go to heaven. If you do good things, and believe in Christ, you get treasures.

okie.. let's just say that i beleive that's the "OLD MAN" is up there but i've not "officially" embraced him... i can do all the good in the world and still not get into the Pearly gates?

doesn't that suck? i may as well rape, burn and pillage all my life and say i beleive and accept on my dying breath to ensure entry...


>You're contradicting yourself. The point of belief is looking past "facts." Of course, I don't see them as facts. But that's me.

a question here... one that i've asked before... who wrote those "facts"... i dun see a chapter of "goD" in the holy book...



 
addi Posted: Mon Mar 22 14:22:42 2004  
  antartica said:

>you don't? drats!... haha...
>i'll stick to poisonous flowers... =P

i know where you live big man! lol


 
Malik Posted: Mon Mar 22 14:26:47 2004  
  I've just been watching this thread, but not replying because I don't consider myself a religious person. I was at one time, however, so I do know some things.

I was always under the impression that Jesus came to wipe away the old testament. That's why his part of the bible is the new testament (the new promise). Judiasm was really messed up, and so God sent Jesus to evolve Judiasm into something better. All of the five-hundred-some-odd-number commandments were wiped away, and replaced with "You shall love the lord your God with all your heart and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself."

So why does it hurt your faith to know that all of mankind didn't descend from Adam's rib, when your Savior came to wipe all that away? Sure, there are many historical inconsistancies and Hebrew folk-tales in the old testament. Do you honestly believe that the reason that sin exists in the world is because of one talking snake that tempted a woman? Those stories are not about your religion. Those stories are about the ancestor religion of your religion.

In fact, knowing how wrong the old testament was should _strengthen_ your faith, if anything. It should show you how messed up the Jews were before Jesus, and why God needed to intervene. You might even be able to draw an analogy to yourself and the Jews, both being so screwed up before Jesus.


And the whole treasures thing. Heaven is being with God. It could be another physical world where everyone has their own condominium, and God is right there with you. It could be a big collective soul where you float around next to him. It could be something else, but the main thing is that you are with God. Nothing else should matter, right? Why would God give you treasures in heaven? His presence should be the only treasure you need.

And I thought the whole message of Jesus was that it was love, not power, or material things, or social class, or anything else that mattered. Why would God give someone who has rejected material belongings and things of physical value for their entire life get a palace when they die? Rewarding those who did without stuff by giving them stuff It contradicts everything about the religion. You aren't rewarded for your hardships, you are accepted to be with God.

And it makes him happy to see us happy? It makes God happy to know that even though we have a choice to turn away from Him and live a life of sin, we don't. Does it make God happy when that cute girl that sits next to me in Calculus smiles at me? Does God think, "Hey, I'm so glad I created that guy, so that he could be happy"?

I really don't know. If I were God, that's how I would do things. But I'm not. I don't know what would happen if I had the power of God. My entire thought process could be turned on it's head, and I would wish for something opposite of what I just said to happen. Point is, we all view God as someone who is us, just really better and more moral and with higher standards. If we believe something is good, we interpret that our God believes it as good. My entire view of God is skewed because it is what I think God should be like. What a fair god would do, in my opinion.

So take this rant at face falue.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Mon Mar 22 14:27:23 2004  
  Christophe said:
>So 'he' created us as toys because 'he' was bored?
>
>
>If you want to be a tamagotchi feel free to do so but I'm nobody's pet.
>
>
>
>
>So you believe in evolution and at the same time you believe in the fact that humans were created instantaneously?
>
Don't put words in my mouth. I said evolution is possible, but I can't be sure. When it says it took God seven days, we have no idea how long that really is.

>And looking past "facts" is saying that the world is round instead of flat; it's not saying look, 2 pencils, but I believe there are 3 of them and since I believe it it must be like that.

There ya go again, putting words in my mouth. I can see the world as round, and I know the difference between two and three. You call it a fact that some people made a website stating that Christianity is made up and stolen material. What makes that guy more correct than a book that has survived this long, written by people, guided by the hand of God?

>My point is that humans are supposed to be the center of the universe since they're above everything, isn't god the center of yours? So if we're so important then why aren't we in the center of everything?

Um, still confused as to what you're saying? God's important to me, He's at the center of my universe. Humans aren't, so they stay where I am. Not sure what you're trying to preach (excuse the pun) here...

>And again, what's up with those treasures? What good are they in heaven and how do they not create upepr and lower classes?

They're just purdy little incentives, but you're trying to complicate this.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Mon Mar 22 14:30:43 2004  
  Iamjustdancing. said:
>then the question is... who created God, and what did he create stuff into? Where did he get his materials?! start thinking about that and you are bound to overload and fall asleep or something.

Try not to think about it...

Just remember, He's GOd!!! He can do anything. You can't put physical limitations on a cosmic being.


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 14:38:19 2004  
  Incentives? Like what.



I don't put words in your mouth, tell me how you can believe in evolution and creation by god at the same time.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that god created everything other than the bible.

Who was there to see? Did adam and eve invent writing so they could tell us?

If not, you know how distorted stuff gets if it is told on a few times, imagine what 1000s of years does to a story in terms of exagerration beyond belief.

For evolution there is proof, bones and what not. It's even so obvious that when you put bones together of species and subspecies like the evolution of human beings you can actually SEE the gradual changes.

7 days are 7 days, period.

If humans are so important to god as well and he made the universe he should have put us in the middle of it, plain and simple, not somewhere in some forgotten corner.


And what makes the guy more correct is that he can back his stuff up with actual proof while the bible contradicts itself all the time.


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 14:39:13 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>Try not to think about it...



Oh my fucking god.



What the fuck have they been feeding you that you are blabbering like this?


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 14:44:29 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>Just remember, He's GOd!!! He can do anything. You can't put physical limitations on a cosmic being.



A snail can't drive a racecar either, what the fuck does that mean?



Also, according to christian belief, there were angels before there were humans.

Why create an earth and put life on it if people end up in heaven again anyway unless they don't do what 'he' likes so he actually creates them to suffer.



You didn't answer my question about people being a toy.

definition of a toy:

toy: (Pronunciation "toi")

An object for children to play with.
Something of little importance; a trifle.
An amusement; a pastime: thought of the business as a toy.



I'm not putting words in your mouth, you said so yourself that you somehow seem to know that 'he' was bored so he needed something to play with basicly.


 
novemberrain Posted: Mon Mar 22 14:58:49 2004  
  Christophe said:
>
>You didn't answer my question about people being a toy.
>
>definition of a toy:
>
>toy: (Pronunciation "toi")
>
>An object for children to play with.
>Something of little importance; a trifle.
>An amusement; a pastime: thought of the business as a toy.

I think other people are toys for ~my~ amusement.

Dance, puppets! Dance!


 
Iamjustdancing. Posted: Mon Mar 22 15:14:31 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>Iamjustdancing. said:
>>then the question is... who created God, and what did he create stuff into? Where did he get his materials?! start thinking about that and you are bound to overload and fall asleep or something.
>
>Try not to think about it...
>
>Just remember, He's GOd!!! He can do anything. You can't put physical limitations on a cosmic being.

you are kidding right? Try not to think about it? Just sit here and be pretty eh? Yea that is a great way to go thru life... LAlalalalala. Dude, for as long as people have roamed this earth, they had questions about things, ie lunar eclipses, tides, seasons, droughts, etc etc. They looked at the stars and wondered, why are we here. They made stories to try to fill the void of knowledge they had. Granted, we have filled many of the voids of the workings of our universe with science, but some people still need the crutch of pretending to know what is going on in the world that is out of their control. For many people, this crutch is religion. But never to think about why i am here, where i came from, how fast the universe is, are we alone...i mean have you ever looked at the stars and watch meteorites fall from the sky? and just think about all that shit. If you don't... i feel sorry for you.


 
misszero Posted: Mon Mar 22 15:50:28 2004  
  Iamjustdancing. said:
>then the question is... who created God, and what did he create stuff into? Where did he get his materials?! start thinking about that and you are bound to overload and fall asleep or something.


mmm, in the immortal words of AC/DC 'who made who?'


 
misszero Posted: Mon Mar 22 15:51:22 2004  
  the possibility that man created god is just as great as the possibility than god created man.


oooooh. paradox.

pffft.


 
Asswipe Posted: Mon Mar 22 16:00:15 2004  
  try this one on for size: Can God microwave a burritto so hot that even he can't eat it?




 
marsteller Posted: Mon Mar 22 16:44:45 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>Why is it that I'm one of the only non-offensive ones here? It's like, jeez, gimme a break, you can state your points without being complete *gasp* asses. Have a little compassion!

don't be such a pussy, it doesn't get you anywhere.


 
marsteller Posted: Mon Mar 22 16:46:13 2004  
  Sheoul said:
>Have you ever loved anything? I mean REALLY loved. Something material? A family member? A friend? God's love is sooo much stonger.
>
>It's pretty hard to descibe. You have to feel it. It's perfect contentment.

i've felt perfect contentment before, without even thinking about god. god isn't here acting in your everyday life, so you've got to learn to be happy with what life has to offer.


 
marsteller Posted: Mon Mar 22 16:48:52 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
It's possible that things in the Bible are as old as 1,000,000 years.


a million years old?!?!?! holy shit man! the earth's 4 and a half BILLION years old


 
trogdor57 Posted: Mon Mar 22 16:59:28 2004  
  marsteller said:
>Sheoul said:
>>Have you ever loved anything? I mean REALLY loved. Something material? A family member? A friend? God's love is sooo much stonger.
>>
>>It's pretty hard to descibe. You have to feel it. It's perfect contentment.
>
>i've felt perfect contentment before, without even thinking about god. god isn't here acting in your everyday life, so you've got to learn to be happy with what life has to offer.

Believe me, he is acting in my life. I know a little girl. Doctors said she wouldn't live through the night, after she got a brain tumor. It's been about seven months. She's nearly recovered, and can go out and do things again.

This also proves a point to you Cristophe: We aren't just toys to him. We love him, he loves us. We pray to him, and he helps us in our daily lives. We aren't just some child's play-thing, unimportant. He loves each and every one of us.




 
trogdor57 Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:02:58 2004  
  marsteller said:
>trogdor57 said:
> It's possible that things in the Bible are as old as 1,000,000 years.
>
>
>a million years old?!?!?! holy shit man! the earth's 4 and a half BILLION years old

OOOOOHHHHH, sorry, Mr. Particular. Just for you:

It's possible that things in the Bible are as old as 4,500,000,000 years.


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:03:33 2004  
  So what your saying is that 'he' can preform miracles when 'he' wants to.


Tell me then why that girl was 'saved' and so many others weren't.


Please don't forget to reply to the other stuff I said as well.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:03:38 2004  
  Asswipe said:
>try this one on for size: Can God microwave a burritto so hot that even he can't eat it?
>
>
I'm so tired of that damn phrase.


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:04:16 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>marsteller said:
>>trogdor57 said:
>> It's possible that things in the Bible are as old as 1,000,000 years.
>>
>>
>>a million years old?!?!?! holy shit man! the earth's 4 and a half BILLION years old
>
>OOOOOHHHHH, sorry, Mr. Particular. Just for you:
>
> It's possible that things in the Bible are as old as 4,500,000,000 years.


Where did you get that from?


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:04:53 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>Asswipe said:
>>try this one on for size: Can God microwave a burritto so hot that even he can't eat it?
>>
>>
>I'm so tired of that damn phrase.


Because you don't have any defence for it?


 
marsteller Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:05:54 2004  
  just 'cause medicine can't explain everything that happens, doesn't mean that god is at work. a hundred years ago we didn't have penicillin; a little ways before that, most people thought the earth was flat; and a short while earlier we didn't even have fire or the fucking wheel. but hey, way to be a retard and explain things you can't understand by attributing them to god.


 
Mesh Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:17:36 2004  
  trogdor57 said:

>I'm so tired of that damn phrase.


Can god microwave a burrito so hot that even he can't eat it?


 
trogdor57 Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:35:02 2004  
  Christophe said:
>trogdor57 said:
>>Just remember, He's GOd!!! He can do anything. You can't put physical limitations on a cosmic being.
>
>
>
>A snail can't drive a racecar either, what the fuck does that mean?
>
Huh???
>
>Also, according to christian belief, there were angels before there were humans.
>
>Why create an earth and put life on it if people end up in heaven again anyway unless they don't do what 'he' likes so he actually creates them to suffer.
>
No, no, no. He didn't create us to suffer. He wants us to be fruitful in all we do.
>
>You didn't answer my question about people being a toy.
>
>definition of a toy:
>
>toy: (Pronunciation "toi")
>
>An object for children to play with.
>Something of little importance; a trifle.
>An amusement; a pastime: thought of the business as a toy.
>
>
>
>I'm not putting words in your mouth, you said so yourself that you somehow seem to know that 'he' was bored so he needed something to play with basicly.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:35:29 2004  
  meshuggah said:
>trogdor57 said:
>
>>I'm so tired of that damn phrase.
>
>
>Can god microwave a burrito so hot that even he can't eat it?

Cute, real cute...


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:37:26 2004  
  If there were angels in heaven already there was no need to create a world and have people mess around in it if he might as well create a few more angels if he felt like it.



If you create life and you punish it for not doing what you want you created something to suffer because it goes to hell and if it wasn't for you it wouldn't be there in the first place and it wouldn't have to suffer.




By the way, are you saying people have existed for 4.5 billion years?


 
trogdor57 Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:37:39 2004  
  Christophe said:
>trogdor57 said:
>>Asswipe said:
>>>try this one on for size: Can God microwave a burritto so hot that even he can't eat it?
>>>
>>>
>>I'm so tired of that damn phrase.
>
>
>Because you don't have any defence for it?

No, cuz it's retarded. There's no sense to it. It's not exactly a stumper: No, no he couldn't. Because God doesn't eat, but even if he did, there's no Microwave that could heat a burrito so hot.


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:37:52 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>meshuggah said:
>>trogdor57 said:
>>
>>>I'm so tired of that damn phrase.
>>
>>
>>Can god microwave a burrito so hot that even he can't eat it?
>
>Cute, real cute...


Just answer it if you're tired of people bringing it up again and again.


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:39:32 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>Christophe said:
>>trogdor57 said:
>>>Asswipe said:
>>>>try this one on for size: Can God microwave a burritto so hot that even he can't eat it?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I'm so tired of that damn phrase.
>>
>>
>>Because you don't have any defence for it?
>
>No, cuz it's retarded. There's no sense to it. It's not exactly a stumper: No, no he couldn't. Because God doesn't eat, but even if he did, there's no Microwave that could heat a burrito so hot.


So god isn't "all powerfull"?

There's stuff he doesn't control either?

Does 'god' need a microwave to heat something up?


You're saying god can't heat something up without a microwave but he dosn't have any problems with creating a universe?


 
trogdor57 Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:40:44 2004  
  Christophe said:
>If there were angels in heaven already there was no need to create a world and have people mess around in it if he might as well create a few more angels if he felt like it.
>
Because we can worship out of free will, but angels can't. God wanted people to choose him over all other things. Angels have to worship him, they have no choice, but we do. It makes him extremely happy each time a human chooses him over the pleasures of this world.
>
>If you create life and you punish it for not doing what you want you created something to suffer because it goes to hell and if it wasn't for you it wouldn't be there in the first place and it wouldn't have to suffer.
>
Huh?
>
>
>By the way, are you saying people have existed for 4.5 billion years?

No. In the bible, Man wasn't created until the sixth day, but we don't know what that's referring to. Each day in this sense could be some 5,000,000 years. I don't know.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:42:58 2004  
  Christophe said:
>trogdor57 said:
>>Christophe said:
>>>trogdor57 said:
>>>>Asswipe said:
>>>>>try this one on for size: Can God microwave a burritto so hot that even he can't eat it?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>I'm so tired of that damn phrase.
>>>
>>>
>>>Because you don't have any defence for it?
>>
>>No, cuz it's retarded. There's no sense to it. It's not exactly a stumper: No, no he couldn't. Because God doesn't eat, but even if he did, there's no Microwave that could heat a burrito so hot.
>
>
>So god isn't "all powerfull"?
>
>There's stuff he doesn't control either?
>
>Does 'god' need a microwave to heat something up?
>
>
>You're saying god can't heat something up without a microwave but he dosn't have any problems with creating a universe?

Just to humor you: GOD DOESN'T EAT! HE DOESN'T NEED A MICROWAVE, OR BURRITOS.

However, what I'm saying is that God CAN use a microwave, but couldn' heat up a burrito so hot he couldn't eat it because he is all powerful, and the food is but a lowly burrito.


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:47:14 2004  
  So angels are just there for the sake of making sure 'his' ego stays in good shape and have no choice about it, and same thing for humans as well, he just want to check out if he still has it and punishes those who dare to oppose 'him'?


How can you say that's free will?


You 'worship' out of fear of what might happen else? Or out of greed for treasures in heaven? And what happens after you're in heaven? Eternal boredom? Eternal worshipping? Why?



You have a lot of double standards going on, you constantly change stuff you say as it fits best.


So man was created on the 6th day just out of nowhere even though there is evidence, yes EVIDENCE, that human beings have evolved from other species and you also believe in that...



Must be very confusing to be you.



Or perhaps not since you force yourself not to think about anything, and at the same time you say you're not a mindless drone that just accepts anything they feed him.


 
marsteller Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:48:37 2004  
  if the angels have to worship god, how do you explain lucifer and all that kinda nonsense? isn't he supposed to be a fallen angel?


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:48:55 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>Just to humor you: GOD DOESN'T EAT! HE DOESN'T NEED A MICROWAVE, OR BURRITOS.
>
>However, what I'm saying is that God CAN use a microwave, but couldn' heat up a burrito so hot he couldn't eat it because he is all powerful, and the food is but a lowly burrito.



That's not the point, the question is if he could or could not if he wanted to.



So he's all powerfull but not powerfull enough to heat up a burrito so hot that he can't eat it?


 
Mesh Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:58:53 2004  
  Damn right what I said was cute.




 
trogdor57 Posted: Mon Mar 22 18:04:59 2004  
  Christophe said:
>So angels are just there for the sake of making sure 'his' ego stays in good shape and have no choice about it, and same thing for humans as well, he just want to check out if he still has it and punishes those who dare to oppose 'him'?
>
>
>How can you say that's free will?
>
Because, we spread the word, and people can CHOOSE to accept that, or CHOOSE to deny it. If you accept, then you're good. If you deny it, then your "fine" because you don't believe it. Only you can CHOOSE where you're gonna go.

>You 'worship' out of fear of what might happen else? Or out of greed for treasures in heaven? And what happens after you're in heaven? Eternal boredom? Eternal worshipping? Why?
>
No, it's not out of fear, it's not out of greed, it's out of love. I got into church, and found great love from that place. As for heaven, it's an eternal party. All the time. y'know, fun?
>
>You have a lot of double standards going on, you constantly change stuff you say as it fits best.
>
>
>So man was created on the 6th day just out of nowhere even though there is evidence, yes EVIDENCE, that human beings have evolved from other species and you also believe in that...
>
Sorry, not the best with words. Lemme sum up all that I meant to say:

God Created man on the sixth day. Now, the sixth day could be anything, day, week month or year. Now, after that sixth day, there's still a lot of time between then and now. Time to evolve. It's not like those in the old testament couldn't look like a neanderthal. Who knows? I sure don't, but I hope to find out one day.
>
>Must be very confusing to be you.
>
>
>
>Or perhaps not since you force yourself not to think about anything, and at the same time you say you're not a mindless drone that just accepts anything they feed him.

Believe me, I'm trying to think for myself.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Mon Mar 22 18:07:54 2004  
  Christophe said:
>trogdor57 said:
>>Just to humor you: GOD DOESN'T EAT! HE DOESN'T NEED A MICROWAVE, OR BURRITOS.
>>
>>However, what I'm saying is that God CAN use a microwave, but couldn' heat up a burrito so hot he couldn't eat it because he is all powerful, and the food is but a lowly burrito.
>
>
>
>That's not the point, the question is if he could or could not if he wanted to.
>
>
>
>So he's all powerfull but not powerfull enough to heat up a burrito so hot that he can't eat it?

Not gonna give up till I answer it, are ya?

OK: God could make a nuclear that would be powerful enough to blow up a planet, or what have you. But he's so almighty that that burrito would not shirk him from eating it. Now, it may burn the roof of his mouth a little, but he'd eat it.

Satisfied? If not, too bad, cuz I'm done with this freakin' question.


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 18:11:32 2004  
  So adam and eve were an early stage of human evolution.


Were they apes and are apes allowed into heaven as well?


What happens to you if you have never heard about christ and stuff, like tribes living in the jungle and stuff like that, are they doomed to go to hell, where's the free choice in that?



Free choice is when you can do whatever you want without you knowing beforehand that you will be fucked if you don't chose the 'right' thing.


How do you know it's an eternal party, who told you and how do they know.

What happens to the angels? Are they spending eternity worshipping while you party?



There's some other stuff I asked you as well, and don't forget about the burrito.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Mon Mar 22 18:29:42 2004  
  Christophe said:
>So adam and eve were an early stage of human evolution.
>
>
>Were they apes and are apes allowed into heaven as well?
>
I guess.

>What happens to you if you have never heard about christ and stuff, like tribes living in the jungle and stuff like that, are they doomed to go to hell, where's the free choice in that?
>
That's why we have missionaries.
>
>Free choice is when you can do whatever you want without you knowing beforehand that you will be fucked if you don't chose the 'right' thing.
>
Well, I suppose it's a difference of interpretations. I would say free will is the right to do whatever you want, even with a knowledge of the consequences.

>How do you know it's an eternal party, who told you and how do they know.
>
What else would a loving God want us to do for an eternity?

>What happens to the angels? Are they spending eternity worshipping while you party?
>
I guess. That's always been their lot, though I suppose it could change.
>
>There's some other stuff I asked you as well, and don't forget about the burrito.

You and your freakin' burrito.


 
marsteller Posted: Mon Mar 22 18:53:17 2004  
  trog, why don't you respond to any of my posts? start fightin.


 
webmaster Posted: Mon Mar 22 23:37:51 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
> It's possible that things in the Bible are as old as 4,500,000,000 years.

First it was 6000, then 1 million, and now 4.5 billion?

If you aren't sure about certain things, please just admit so instead of sounding so sure, then changing your stance when you cannot support it. That's one of the very reason why the roots Christianity are shaking. People will respect you, and your posts, more.


>Because we can worship out of free will, but angels can't.

But angels did have free will. Lucifer had the free will to rebel, didn't he?

>OK: God could make a nuclear that would be powerful enough to blow up a planet, or what have you. But he's so almighty that that burrito would not shirk him from eating it. Now, it may burn the roof of his mouth a little, but he'd eat it.

Then how badly can God get burnt? 1st degree, 2nd degree or 3rd degree?

Trog, why don't you respond to any of my posts? I took the time to read and respond to your posts, it would just plain courtesy.


 
marsteller Posted: Tue Mar 23 00:05:08 2004  
  ditto man


 
Iamjustdancing. Posted: Tue Mar 23 08:53:01 2004  
  I almost feel sorry for trog, as he is up against incredible odds with no others (save sheol) to defend him in this matter. I think his answers are monsterously retarded, and he is just spouting off shit he learned in sunday school, but i do give him credit for making himself look like a moron in the defence of his God.

Haha i laugh so hard everytime i read the burrito posts!


 
casper Posted: Tue Mar 23 09:40:49 2004  
  actually to help the kid out some nowhere in the bible does it say that lucifer (or satan or the devil or what have you) was ever a fallen angel. It's a common story but has no basis in any bible...except for a small segment in the king james version that says something like "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!". but in any earlier versions it only says that about the son of dawn. and in the hebrew version it's actually talking about a fallen king.


 
FN Posted: Tue Mar 23 11:01:46 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>Christophe said:
>>So adam and eve were an early stage of human evolution.
>>
>>
>>Were they apes and are apes allowed into heaven as well?
>>
>I guess.

So god punished an ape for eating an apple? How many apes would stay away from the apple if you told them to? And what about the species apes developed from, are they in heaven as well? You mean there are microbes in heaven?

>
>>What happens to you if you have never heard about christ and stuff, like tribes living in the jungle and stuff like that, are they doomed to go to hell, where's the free choice in that?
>>
>That's why we have missionaries.

And what if they don't get to those people before they die, did all the indians and so on die and go to hell before there were missionaries?

>>
>>Free choice is when you can do whatever you want without you knowing beforehand that you will be fucked if you don't chose the 'right' thing.
>>
>Well, I suppose it's a difference of interpretations. I would say free will is the right to do whatever you want, even with a knowledge of the consequences.

Bullshit.

Free will isn't 'free' if you know you'll get punished for doing something else.

>
>>How do you know it's an eternal party, who told you and how do they know.
>>
>What else would a loving God want us to do for an eternity?

That isn't an answer. Who told you and how do they know.

>
>>What happens to the angels? Are they spending eternity worshipping while you party?
>>
>I guess. That's always been their lot, though I suppose it could change.
>>


So they're the slavs of 'his' ego?

Don't you turn into an angel when going to heaven?

>>There's some other stuff I asked you as well, and don't forget about the burrito.
>
>You and your freakin' burrito.


 
FN Posted: Tue Mar 23 11:04:12 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>OK: God could make a nuclear that would be powerful enough to blow up a planet, or what have you. But he's so almighty that that burrito would not shirk him from eating it. Now, it may burn the roof of his mouth a little, but he'd eat it.
>
>Satisfied? If not, too bad, cuz I'm done with this freakin' question.


So good is not powerfull enough to make something so hot he can't eat it so per definition he isn't all-powerfull?



And you're being very childish about this.

"I don't know any answer to it, just remember that it's God and so it must be right and good and loving and whatnot even though it is entirely contradictory and stuff. Don't talk about it and don't think about it. And no, I'm not a mindless drone"


 
FN Posted: Tue Mar 23 11:08:24 2004  
  Iamjustdancing. said:
>I almost feel sorry for trog, as he is up against incredible odds with no others (save sheol) to defend him in this matter. I think his answers are monsterously retarded, and he is just spouting off shit he learned in sunday school, but i do give him credit for making himself look like a moron in the defence of his God.



It's like they managed to teleport a priest from the middleages who thinks the earth is flat.



People like trog scare me, really.


I wonder how far you have to go before you're legally considered as mentally handicapped.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Mar 23 11:09:23 2004  
  Christophe said:
>trogdor57 said:
>>OK: God could make a nuclear that would be powerful enough to blow up a planet, or what have you. But he's so almighty that that burrito would not shirk him from eating it. Now, it may burn the roof of his mouth a little, but he'd eat it.
>>
>>Satisfied? If not, too bad, cuz I'm done with this freakin' question.
>
>
>So good is not powerfull enough to make something so hot he can't eat it so per definition he isn't all-powerfull?
>
>
>
>And you're being very childish about this.
>
>"I don't know any answer to it, just remember that it's God and so it must be right and good and loving and whatnot even though it is entirely contradictory and stuff. Don't talk about it and don't think about it. And no, I'm not a mindless drone"

Christope, you relentless bastard, can't you see he's dead already, stop beating on his corpse !


 
FN Posted: Tue Mar 23 11:14:46 2004  
  ifihadahif said:
>Christope, you relentless bastard, can't you see he's dead already, stop beating on his corpse !



Stand back hif, I'm saving him from a world of ignorance!


lol



He won't change anyway, his community will make sure of that, look how much he indoctrinated already.

No offence trog but that's simply the way it is.


 
FN Posted: Tue Mar 23 11:17:50 2004  
  ifihadahif said:
>Christope, you relentless bastard


And thanks for the compliment ;o)


 
pheniox Posted: Tue Mar 23 16:02:00 2004  
  mat_j said:
>Isn't there even an arguemnt that 'eternity' mentioned in relation to our stay in heaven and hell was actually a Greek word meaning a thousand years and was used to signify an immesurable amount of time but not for ever.

Well I hqave studied the Bible extensively throughout my career and I have observed that the Bible is the field guide for life, not the full guide. The Bible tells you how to be in fellowship with God and gives a description of what he wants for your life but he does not come right out and say DO thid and DO that. THe only requirement that was set is that you accept Jesus Christ as your Personal
Savior.

The human mind cannot comprehent the concept of eternity. The best description is that if a bird took a mouthful of water from the Pacific ocean, spit it out into the Atlantic Ocean, Rested on the East Coast for 1,000,000 years and then flew back and started over, That this would be the begining of eternity.

None of us can say for sure what is in heaven. When I die and come back I will be glad to share my memories of the place. Until then all of this argueing is getting us no where.

I can see that Trogdor is doing the best he can to try to spread the word of God and eternal salvation to all of you. I give him credit for trying to preach to a crowd who look down on him for his age. He is aonly trying to make sure that you all do not burn for eternity.

As for the question "Can God make a rock so big that even he cannot lift?" I say only this. This paradox is simple and easily solved. God is an ever changing God. From the Old testament to the New he stops the majority of the Relenteless simtings and tries to save humanity. THe reason for those smitings, as I am sure you all will ask, is to prove that man cannot be perfect and indeed needs intercession on his behalf to accheive salvation.

God created the angles wioth no free will. God made us to prove his love. Averse in the bible though I cannot rember which one, states " The lord rejoices in the happiness of his children." If god rejoices in our happiness then in essence, His gifting us makes him even happier.

I Want to say to you that do not belive in God to go to one of your local churches and talk to the senior pastor. He may be able to anwser your questions better than any other layperson.

Well I am done here and I will be praying for all of you who anr not saved and are persecuting christians.

God Bless You,
Pheniox


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Mar 23 16:19:05 2004  
  pheniox, your spell checker isn't working !


 
Iamjustdancing. Posted: Tue Mar 23 16:25:19 2004  
  ifihadahif said:
>pheniox, your spell checker isn't working !

all you frieks are anal aboute speling! git over it! You know what people meen wen thay are tiping thare stuf ok?


 
FN Posted: Tue Mar 23 16:27:56 2004  
  I had discussions when I was 16 on here as well and nobody ever used my age against me, and nobody is doing that with trogdor either. He's called a kid because he acts and talks like one and knows only the simplified and hand-fed version of whatever he seems to talk about.

Nobody looks down on him because of his age. We look down on him for the contradicting bullshit he's saying and for changing his story every 5 minutes.

I never asked for Christ to 'come and save me' by the way. Why should I be saved?

Why create humanity to have to save it afterwards?

Why create humanity to let them burn if they don't worship their supposed creator "out of free will"?

"Don't ask questions and don't think for yourself or you'll burn, BURN I TELL YOU!"

If angels have no free will and are only there to serve and worship 'god', what does that tell you about 'him'.

And before I forget, a well-meant fuck you about nobody being able to say what's in heaven, who says there's a heaven anyway?

How can you be sure about that.

Did god come to tell you personally? Do you feel it? Did you hear voices in your head? Somebody bring in the straightjackets.


Seriously, don't you people ever stop and wonder and look at the robes you're wearing and listen to the crap you're saying and singing and think about what kind of an ass you're making of yourself?



And discussing and pointing out flaws isn't the same as persecuting.

One last thing: If you pray for me I'll hold a satanic ceremony for you and sacrifice babies in your honour.


Satan bless you,
Christophe


 
addi Posted: Tue Mar 23 16:31:36 2004  
  pheniox said:

>Well I hqave studied the Bible extensively throughout my career

LOL! I'm sorry pheniox. "your career"? It just hit me as very funny. i'm weird.

>I can see that Trogdor is doing the best he can to try to spread the word of God and eternal salvation to all of you. I give him credit for trying to preach to a crowd who look down on him for his age. He is aonly trying to make sure that you all do not burn for eternity.

Trogdor is a good kid and many of us appreciate his efforts here. We may disagree, but we know he is doing what he thinks is best for us and misguided as he is, he has a good heart.

>I Want to say to you that do not belive in God to go to one of your local churches and talk to the senior pastor. He may be able to anwser your questions better than any other layperson.

I'm still waiting for the local senior pastor here to come and talk to me. I've got a few answers to his questions : )

>Well I am done here and I will be praying for all of you who anr not saved and are persecuting christians.

(pray for Sheoul. I think he's gay)

>God Bless You,
>Pheniox

God bless you too!


 
Christian Posted: Tue Mar 23 16:32:54 2004  
  egads, (he looks at the blood on his hands...with despair in his eyes)...WHAT HAVE I DONE...WHAT HAVE I DONE....

:-)


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Mar 23 16:33:39 2004  
  hey Christophe, only Christians believe in Satan.
That's what the voices in my head are telling me.
They are also telling me that some chicken wings with a really good buffalo sauce is in order for supper.


 
Mesh Posted: Tue Mar 23 16:35:54 2004  
  Satan is a silly fella, let me tell you. We have oh so much fun together.


 
Christian Posted: Tue Mar 23 16:37:21 2004  
  uuummmm uuuummmm PETA PETA


 
FN Posted: Tue Mar 23 16:38:37 2004  
  An interesting back-up question perhaps.


If god didn't create satan, where did he come from and why would he be any less powerfull than god?

If god created everything, did he create satan as well, if so, why?

And if satan was a fallen angel: I thought angels don't have free will so how could he fall?


And if 'god' is so loving and stuff like that why did he create a hell for people to suffer for not obeying his every whim?




Answer me, oh all-knowing prophet-kind-of-guy


 
FN Posted: Tue Mar 23 16:39:53 2004  
  ifihadahif said:
>hey Christophe, only Christians believe in Satan.


I was trying to lower myself to their level of intelligence.


 
trogdor57 Posted: Tue Mar 23 16:39:59 2004  
  Hey, guys, just thought I'd let ya know, this'll be my last post in this section. I've once again had to remind myself there's nothing I can do, and arguing so much has taken it's toll. So, I'll try to back off a bit.

Peace.


 
FN Posted: Tue Mar 23 16:40:50 2004  
  Typical.



How very lame of you.



Oh well, I win.



Again.


 
addi Posted: Tue Mar 23 16:43:49 2004  
  why can't I ever win?
why do YOU always have to win?!


 
Mesh Posted: Tue Mar 23 16:43:51 2004  
  Man, you almost had me converted from my blend of islamo-satanbahai'ism to christianity.

Oh well, I give you credit for arguing while being so outnumbered up until now at least.

Peace.




 
FN Posted: Tue Mar 23 16:45:28 2004  
  addison said:
>why can't I ever win?
>why do YOU always have to win?!


Survival of the fittest I guess


 
trogdor57 Posted: Tue Mar 23 17:30:08 2004  
  Christophe said:
>Typical.
>
>
>
>How very lame of you.
>
Can't help what I am.
>
>Oh well, I win.
>
>
>
>Again.

Ah well


 
FN Posted: Tue Mar 23 17:33:28 2004  
  *Does a little victory dance*


 
Christian Posted: Tue Mar 23 17:41:34 2004  
  oh goodie...and, I'm so powerful, too!!! C'mon Christophe, you can "share" my glory !


 
mat_j Posted: Tue Mar 23 20:21:34 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>Hey, guys, just thought I'd let ya know, this'll be my last post in this section. I've once again had to remind myself there's nothing I can do, and arguing so much has taken it's toll. So, I'll try to back off a bit.
>
> Peace.

PEACE! PEACE! no one ever got anywhere with peace son, now get back to the Barracks and give me fifty! And god forbid if i go into that head and find those cans are not sparklin' like a porcelain palace cleaned by a china doll in with his own personal Toothbrush, do you understand me?


 
webmaster Posted: Tue Mar 23 23:52:09 2004  
  trogdor57 said:
>Hey, guys, just thought I'd let ya know, this'll be my last post in this section. I've once again had to remind myself there's nothing I can do, and arguing so much has taken it's toll. So, I'll try to back off a bit.
>
> Peace.

This isn't the first time this is happening. When you first bring forth your ideas, we ask our questions, and when you cannot answer or support them, you change your stance. You totally ignore many of our questions because you know you cannot answer them. And when your arguments are cornered, you give up and say things like, "Try not to think about it... He's God..."

That is not good argument or discussion. It's running away to hide, or burying your head in sand. And when you do that, very naturally, Christophe wins.

We do respect your freedom to believe in your religion, and personally, I admire your ability to believe in something so strongly. However, when you try to press your beliefs onto others, telling them what to, and what not to believe, people start taking it personally. And your inability to support your ideas and arguements does little to gain any respect or credibility in this forum - and in the real world.

If you don't know what I mean, take a look at hif's posts. If he doesn't know anything, he keeps quiet, but when he does have an opinion, he is able to back it up with solid, reasonable and logical arguments and facts.

You're leaving when there are still so many unanswered questions? You mean we wasted all our time reading and replying? If you carry one this way, very soon no one will read or reply to your posts. It seems like you're looking more to preach than to discuss.


 
Kira Posted: Wed Mar 24 01:15:55 2004  
  Come on, Trog, stick up for what you believe in! I know what it's like to be backed into a corner, you want to give up, not only to save yourself the stress and embarrassment but to prevent yourself from discrediting your own beliefs. If you quit now all your arguments up to this point are for naught.

Take a breather and review your thoughts if you have to, we can be patient, except when GT is down, then no one is safe.


 
libra Posted: Wed Mar 24 01:44:27 2004  
  Sailovzi said:

>
>Take a breather and review your thoughts if you have to, we can be patient, except when GT is down, then no one is safe.

shhh

don't talk about that please...hehe


 
marsteller Posted: Wed Mar 24 03:14:18 2004  
  that's weak man....it was funny watching him run in circles


 
addi Posted: Wed Mar 24 07:31:51 2004  
  Addi first cup of coffee morning ramblings:

I get uneasy with these Trogdor threads. Probably because I see a little of myself years ago in him. I had passion. I had "truth". I had god on my side and, like the Blues Brothers, I was on a righteous mission. Arguements against my beliefs were simply Satan blinding the eyes of those who would not heed my message.

Now, I'm a cynic. Now if Trog was casting for a play called "The Rapture" I could play the part of the anti-christ quite easily (as long as I got top billing!). I'm much wiser now as a person. I realize the many follies of my youthful zeal. I'm not sure in the grand scheme of things though if I'm any happier than I was back then. Sometimes I wonder if enlightenment is all that it's cracked up to be.
Back then the road ahead was fairly clear and straight. I had purpose, determination, and passion, even if it was misguided and erroneous in many respects.
Today I can unashamedly say I am much wiser as a person, but I believe it came at a cost. I would never wish to retreat back to where I once was, but the road is now foggy and curved, and full of obsticles. Sometimes I swear I'm just wandering around in circles.

*on my second cup now. sorry to put you all through that : )


 
misszero Posted: Wed Mar 24 07:46:39 2004  
  marsteller said:

>i've felt perfect contentment before, without even thinking about god.


yeah, me too. but we call it the big O down here in oz.


 
FN Posted: Wed Mar 24 07:49:18 2004  
  If you need a reason for life, there it is.


 
misszero Posted: Wed Mar 24 08:00:21 2004  
  damn straight, christophe. since this is a god thread, and I somehow turned it nasty, I will make up for it with a religious themed joke.

okay, so god created all that crap trog was talking about, but he still had a few things left in his little bag of tricks. So he says to Adam and Eve, he says, "Okay, I'm gonna split these up..... who wants the ability to pee standing up?" and of course, Adam gets all excited "oh god of free will and mercy and making angels fawn over you, I deserve that, really I do!" God ums and ahs, and asks Eve "do you mind, lady?" she says no, if adam wants it so bad (which he obviously does) he can have it. And then god says, he says, "ah, now Eve, what do I have left here.... ahh yes, multiple orgasms..."

ba dom tsh.


 
addi Posted: Wed Mar 24 08:04:44 2004  
  you gave the King James version. Here's the ending in the Revised Standard version:

misszero said:
> And then god says, he says, "ah, now Eve, what do I have left here.... ahh yes, the ability to fake orgasms..."
>
>ba dom tsh.


 

The thread has reached it's limit of 150 postings.
If you still have something to say, it is either a very interesting topic, or (more likely) you're trying to flood the GT server.
In any case, please start a new thread.



[ Start new thread ]