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U.S. Supreme court debates "under God" this week
Malik Posted: Mon Mar 22 14:59:54 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Okay fellahs, the U.S. Supreme court is going to hear cases on Wednesday over the phrase "under God" in the U.S. Pledge of Allegence. Many states have laws where students must be led in reciting the pledge of allegence every day; that's what this case is about. Whether or not its constitutional for the federal a state government to tell public schools they they must lead their kids in a pledge that includes "under God."

So, what do y'all think about it?


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 15:01:23 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  "God" won't be in the European constitution.



Go Europe.


 
libra Posted: Mon Mar 22 15:14:00 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  In my school, it was kind of an option whether you wanted to say that part of the pledge of allegiance, or whether you wanted to say it at all. I remember one girl i went to school with who was an American Indian refused to say the pledge of allegiance. The teacher didn't make a big deal of it, but then again, this is northern california and most of my teachers were crazy liberal ex-hippies...

I think they should take it out of the official pledge. If people who are religious want to still say it, then goody for them, but it's just silly to leave it in...

I haven't said the pledge of allegiance in at least five years, I don't think i even remember it...I always left out the under god part if i remembered to...it became something of such repitition that none of it really meant much to me, so saying under god wasn't any more meaningful than saying any of the rest of it...


 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Mar 22 15:58:42 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  It would be just a little strange if they strike it down, since the legal proceedings in the supreme court and every American court begin with a prayer. It's non-denominational, so who really gives a damn ? Nobody is forced to repeat it anyway.
Our currency says "in god we trust", who is bitching about that ?



 
mat_j Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:49:09 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>"God" won't be in the European constitution.
>
>
>
>Go Europe.

Go Europe indeed!!

I suppose Hif is kind of right but i find the idea of a pledge of allegiance a little creepy, the same as flying flags on your lawn, Hell we know what country we're in so why do people do that freaky shit.

If someone tried to make a pledge of allegiance in Britain we'd fuck it up within a matter of minutes after being released. There'd be rude versions, anti patriotic versions, probably even Islamic fundamentalist humour based versions of it. Nobody would stand to it, fuck i don't even stand for my own national anthem. There'd probably be riots over the very idea of it and yes we'd happily burn our own nations flag cause sucking up to your nation in that weird ass way is like licking the crack of your bosses hairy, griff nut lined arse crack.



Excuse me i need to wash


 
marsteller Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:49:57 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  yeah, the pledge of allegiance is just stupid patriotic indoctrination, brainwashing.


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:51:57 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  marsteller said:
>yeah, the pledge of allegiance is just stupid patriotic indoctrination, brainwashing.


Stupid patriotic indoctrination and brainwashing in America?

It can't be!


Burn the non-believing commie, he has WMD's stuffed up his ass!


 
marsteller Posted: Mon Mar 22 17:52:58 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  i ain't no commie, im out for my slice of the pie

"I check cheddar like a food inspector"


 
trogdor57 Posted: Mon Mar 22 18:09:50 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Hey, if you don't wanna say it, don't say it. But don't drag everyone else down cuz it pisses you off. People need to be less offended.


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 18:13:28 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  trogdor57 said:
>Hey, if you don't wanna say it, don't say it. But don't drag everyone else down cuz it pisses you off. People need to be less offended.


In official terms it shouldn't be used, that's the whole point, not if people should be offended by it or not.


If it's in official documents like when having to swear you'll say the truth then yes you are forced to say it.



Religion has no place within a developed society.


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 18:14:31 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I wonder what you would say if you would have to say 'under satan' or 'under allah'.

Would you swear to satan to tell the truth, and would you say satan bless america?


You should if you can't understand people being offended by having to say god.


 
Malik Posted: Mon Mar 22 18:23:50 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  To the European people: screw you! (that was an "I envy you badly" sort of screw you, not a flag-waving screw you)

Okay, check out this crazy syllogism:
1) When "under God" is said, it means every monotheistic god in every religion where there is a singular god.
2) Not every monotheistic god holds the same system of beliefs.
3) So, the God in "under God" isn't really your God after all, it's just a ceremonial diety that represents the gods of all monotheistic religions.
4) Using this term is blastphemy, because the God that is referred to in the pledge is not your God, it is the combination of all gods.

Does it work? Feel free to rip this out with your logic guns, but just a crazy thought I had.

Oh, and a side note, "under God" was added to the US pledge in 1952 to combat athiest Communism.

And trog, how would you feel if the pledge said, "one nation, under no God"? Would you be offended? Think that the pledge was a bit too unappropriate? Would you want your kids saying a pledge where they denied the existance of your God every single day in school?


 
trogdor57 Posted: Mon Mar 22 18:24:02 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  A good point. I don't know, and I'm glad I don't have to worry about it.


 
FN Posted: Mon Mar 22 18:27:42 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  trogdor57 said:
>A good point. I don't know, and I'm glad I don't have to worry about it.


Answer the question please.



You only worry about the stuff that happens within a 10 meter radius of you or something?


I thought you were the master of 'what if'


 
kurohyou Posted: Mon Mar 22 18:29:17 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
...>Our currency says "in god we trust", who is bitching about that ?
>

If they're thinking about striking it from the constitution they would need to make a clean sweep. Including keeping the President from dropping "God Bless," 19 times in each of his speeches.

I don't think its really that big of a deal.


 
simonvii Posted: Mon Mar 22 18:30:56 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:

>Religion has no place within a developed society.

religion has had THE central place in just about every developed society in the world, past and present...also the term 'under allah' would be the same as 'under god' because 'allah' means god, its just a different language, like dio means god in spanish


 
marsteller Posted: Mon Mar 22 18:52:14 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  maybe religion plays an important part in developing society/culture, but once society is up and running, it's no longer necessary. is that what you meant christophe? maybe just something i came up with now...but then that brings you to forgetting the past and repeating it, that sort of shit.


 
addi Posted: Mon Mar 22 18:55:41 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  mat_j said:

>Excuse me i need to wash

LOL!!

We did a thread on this not too long ago. Back in '76 I reckon. Jimmy Carter had just been elected president. Disco was climbing to the...I digress

"Under God" wasn't even added untill the 50's (the commies red scared us into it). We had been a godly nation for decades without including it. I suspect we'd be sinning about the same amount whether or not it was kept or taken out. perhaps we should be spending our time on more important matters..like how to politely separate ourselves from those weird ass Europeans! (I think Blair forced us into this whole mess with Iraq)


 
mat_j Posted: Mon Mar 22 19:58:57 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  trogdor57 said:
>Hey, if you don't wanna say it, don't say it. But don't drag everyone else down cuz it pisses you off. People need to be less offended.

Now you listen to me you shiny assed little pissant, i don't condone the harsh bullying of you that happens here but let me tell you this, everything may be fine and dandy for you in Fiveloavestwofishton but i for one absolutly cannot abide the cringe worthy pledge of alleigance, and if i so much as catch you whispering one one single sentence of it i will whoop your ass so fast you'll be needing a comet to find your way back home to mommy. DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING HERE PRIVATE?!!


 
trogdor57 Posted: Mon Mar 22 20:07:18 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I pledge allegiance.... No! Stay back! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!


 
mat_j Posted: Mon Mar 22 20:21:11 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Ooooohhhh you be lucky that my pimp hand is at the dry cleaners or i'd smack you upside the head, this one's going to have to be just a standard roll up my sleaves and hit your head on some concrete kind of whoopin'.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Mar 22 21:27:03 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  god has had a place in America since our Declaration of Independence was written. The Phrase "endowed by our creator" is pretty explicit in it's meaning and it does not endorse any specific religon. If anyone is disagrees with it, that's fine. We are a tolerant society. If you are offended by it, that too is fine, but that's also too bad. You either have way too much spare time or you have a specific agenda, either way most Americans don't give a shit. Get a life.
If you want to live in America, that guarantees you life, liberty, and the pursuit of happines. That does not guarantee you said happiness, just the opportunity to pursue it.


 
simonvii Posted: Mon Mar 22 22:44:26 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>god has had a place in America since our Declaration of Independence was written. The Phrase "endowed by our creator" is pretty explicit in it's meaning and it does not endorse any specific religon. If anyone is disagrees with it, that's fine. We are a tolerant society. If you are offended by it, that too is fine, but that's also too bad. You either have way too much spare time or you have a specific agenda, either way most Americans don't give a shit. Get a life.
>If you want to live in America, that guarantees you life, liberty, and the pursuit of happines. That does not guarantee you said happiness, just the opportunity to pursue it.

couldnt have said it better myself...
the thing thats messed up is that everytime the word 'god' is used, we automatically think 'jesus' or 'christianity', when in reality the term god can stand for anything you worship...so if u got a problem with the word god being in our official documents, then that is exactly what u have- a problem...no one is forcing u to believe or worship anything


 
libra Posted: Mon Mar 22 23:02:54 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  The thing that bothers me is that the words are in there AND there's a law that says kids have to say it in school. They should either let kids say whatever the hell they want, or take it out of the pledge. If i'm ever an elementary school teacher, i'll teach the kids the pledge without the 'under god' part...i might be taken to the superindendant for it and drawn and quartered, but i wouldn't teach it...


 
simonvii Posted: Mon Mar 22 23:11:02 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  libra said:
>The thing that bothers me is that the words are in there AND there's a law that says kids have to say it in school.

i am 100% positive that there is NO LAW requiring anyone to say anything that they dont want to say - at least not in regards to this issue...thats why america is america, you can say what you want...(unless its that dreaded "f-word" oh my goodness)


 
libra Posted: Mon Mar 22 23:38:01 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  simonvii said:
>libra said:
>>The thing that bothers me is that the words are in there AND there's a law that says kids have to say it in school.
>
>i am 100% positive that there is NO LAW requiring anyone to say anything that they dont want to say - at least not in regards to this issue...thats why america is america, you can say what you want...(unless its that dreaded "f-word" oh my goodness)

I'm sure its not a federal law, but a lot of state and/or local governments require it...


 
simonvii Posted: Mon Mar 22 23:50:31 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  libra said:

>
>I'm sure its not a federal law, but a lot of state and/or local governments require it...

hmmm....and i suppose the punishment for breaking this law is what, a fine?
jail time for not saying "under God" during the plegdge of allegiance...im sorry no one tells me who i pledge my allegiance to, bullshit


 
marsteller Posted: Tue Mar 23 00:04:19 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  nah man, you go on trial for treason. best check yo'self


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Mar 23 06:44:57 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  libra said:

There are no laws anywhere requiring you to say the pledge of allegiance.
Not state or federal. There are some schools that practice it, but no one is required to participate.


 
Malik Posted: Tue Mar 23 14:16:06 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  The US Supreme court ruled that you cannot be forced to say the pledge or stand for it, and you cannot be given punishment for failing to say the pledge or stand for it.

And yes, the decisions of the Supreme Court apply to local and state cases as well. In fact, the federal government, any branch of it, has the authority over all the state and local governments. It was the thing where some states would let blacks vote in federal elections (because they had too), but wouldn't let them vote in state elections. The feds stepped in, and the courts said that the federal law about federal things also apply to state and local things if they want it to.

If you want to get technical, the laws that require students to be led every day in the pledge _are_ mandatory, and somebody has to say it, right? , So you can get in trouble if you don't say the pledge, but that's only if you are a public school administrator, or something like that.



 
Christian Posted: Tue Mar 23 14:46:17 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  why do they say anything at all, in school...? In Canada they say nothing.


 



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