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Grunge. My generation.
iggy Posted: Mon Apr 5 01:46:44 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  http://www.jsonline.com/onwisconsin/music/apr04/219687.asp

Grunge
10 years after Cobain, can grunge speak to the spirit of a generation?
By GEMMA TARLACH
Journal Sentinel pop music critic




 
marsteller Posted: Mon Apr 5 01:52:43 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  grunge was sweet. stupid article.


 
Dancer Posted: Mon Apr 5 03:32:27 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  love cobain!!!!! the unplugged in new york is one of my fav albums.


 
DaveHill Posted: Mon Apr 5 04:09:27 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Aren't as big a fan as i used to, but grunge was really my thing yeah. I grew soft over the years :)
I just wish everyone would stop moaning over things like "grunge is dead", "was Cobain murdered?", "Smells Like Teen Spirit an anthem for a generation?", "Oh my fucking god! Puddle Of Mudd rip off Nirvana!", etc., etc., etc., etc.
Just listen and shut up.


 
dan632 Posted: Mon Apr 5 04:54:14 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  RIP Kurt Cobain

20/2/1967 - 5/4/1994


 
FN Posted: Mon Apr 5 04:56:29 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I don't understand why people freak out so much over this cobain guy.

Oh no, a drugs addict died, let's all remember and honor him.


 
dan632 Posted: Mon Apr 5 05:02:10 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  no dude! Cobain was like a god, he had such a heavy influence on the music industry it's not funny. of course not techno but meh.

do u feel the same way about the death of Jim Morisson? John Lennon? Kurt Cobain's death has been compared to the death of these 2 deaths


 
FN Posted: Mon Apr 5 05:13:31 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I don't care about any of them.


People die, that's life.


So what he 'influenced the music industry'?

I know who he is, that's not the point.


I don't understand how people can idolise somebody else like that.


 
dan632 Posted: Mon Apr 5 05:28:14 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  idolising yourself would be narcasistic :^P besides, i don't idolise him, it's just a tragedy him dying when he did


 
FN Posted: Mon Apr 5 05:31:37 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I don't see any reason to idolise anybody.

He had to wipe his ass after taking a crap as well you know.

You can respect somebody for something he or she has done, but idolising is something enterily different.

He deserved to die, he was doing drugs, that's what you get.

I don't respect him or anybody like him for that matter.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Apr 5 07:04:41 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>He deserved to die, he was doing drugs, that's what you get.
>
>I don't respect him or anybody like him for that matter.
>
Whoa, are you saying that if you do drugs, then you deserve to die ?


 
FN Posted: Mon Apr 5 08:11:13 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I have nothing against people who smoke some weed, but once you get into the heavy stuff you know what you're in for, and no, I don't feel any compassion whatsoever towards anybody with any addiction, certainly not something related to drugs and alcohol.


You know it will kill you so just don't fucking start with it.


 
dan632 Posted: Mon Apr 5 08:15:13 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  what about those people that get addicted to painkillers?
"In his later life, Kurt was plagued by intense stomach pain, one of the reasons he relied so much on drugs. Not an attempt to justify drug use, just his answer to the pain."

" TARGET="_new">http://www.celebritymorgue.com/kurt-cobain/">



 
FN Posted: Mon Apr 5 08:16:17 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I don't remember heroin and stuff being licensed painkillers.


 
dan632 Posted: Mon Apr 5 08:17:51 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  if they relieve pain technically they are painkillers.
i dislike addicts as well but for those who got addicted in some fucked way like needing them to relieve pain i just feel sorry them


 
FN Posted: Mon Apr 5 08:44:06 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Lol.

Yeah, everybody who is in pain has a justification for becomming a junk.

Bullshit.


 
FN Posted: Mon Apr 5 08:47:10 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I don't feel sorry for people who caused the shit they're in themselves.

Every single junk, every last one of them, can drop dead right now. They are nothing but parasites leeching on society and on those around them.

He who burns his ass must sit on the blisters as my grandfather would have said.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Apr 5 10:00:03 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>I don't feel sorry for people who caused the shit they're in themselves.
>
>Every single junk, every last one of them, can drop dead right now. They are nothing but parasites leeching on society and on those around them.
>
>He who burns his ass must sit on the blisters as my grandfather would have said.
>
Hey Chris, you'd make a great Republican !
You sound just like G.W. Bush !


 
FN Posted: Mon Apr 5 10:07:31 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Not really, everybody is free to do as they please (liberal) but they don't have to come whining when they fuck things up because of their own stupid behaviour, which is liberal as well.


I think there is a difference between liberal in the US and liberal in Europe btw.

Liberal over here is kind of center-right, not left.


 
joy Posted: Mon Apr 5 10:35:27 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  oh christophe, it's nice to know that you still know everything and that everone else is still wrong =)


 
FN Posted: Mon Apr 5 10:45:17 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  joy said:
>oh christophe, it's nice to know that you still know everything and that everone else is still wrong =)


There are still some certainties in the world.



Seriously though, you can't give me a single excuse for starting to do drugs.

Fucked up experiences and what not aren't an exception.

If something bad happens to you, you don't go fucking it up even more, period.

If you're a junk, it's because of a choice YOU made and nobody else, so nobody else should have to pay for it or should get blamed.

Peer pressure? Fuck peer pressure, it doesn't exist, you either do something or you don't. If you give in to something as stupid as that, you won't get anywhere in life anyway.

Fucked up childhood? You think you're the only one who has had one (talking in general here not about anybody in particular)? What about the people who didn't start doing drugs because of that, are they the freaks?

Same thing with alcoholics or people who are addicted to sigarettes. It's your choice to fuck your body (and surroundings) up, don't complain about it afterwards when you get the bill for it.


 
DanSRose Posted: Mon Apr 5 11:02:34 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  The addiction came 2nd. He had major depression and like many depressed when the prescriptions failed, he turned to the illegal ones.
To say 'you shouldn't idolize anyone' is ignorant as it is heartless. It's the idea of Hero- being remembered for your tragic flaws and the accomplishments together.



 
FN Posted: Mon Apr 5 11:12:15 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I don't see how he could be described as a hero. Because he wrote some songs?

I don't believe in heros.

And like I said before, a depression isn't a justification, there are plenty of people who go to serious stuff without giving in to drugs. It's still your own choice.


And no, you shouldn't idolize anybody, instead of looking up to other people to do the stuff you'd like to do it's better to do it yourself.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Apr 5 12:26:07 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>I don't see how he could be described as a hero. Because he wrote some songs?
>
He was an artist in the same vein as Beethoven or Mozart or Grieg.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Apr 5 12:27:03 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>joy said:
>>oh christophe, it's nice to know that you still know everything and that everone else is still wrong =)
>
>
>There are still some certainties in the world.
>
>
>
>Seriously though, you can't give me a single excuse for starting to do drugs.
>
In America you would most definitely be a Republican with viewpoints like that.
>Fucked up experiences and what not aren't an exception.
>
>If something bad happens to you, you don't go fucking it up even more, period.
>
>If you're a junk, it's because of a choice YOU made and nobody else, so nobody else should have to pay for it or should get blamed.
>
>Peer pressure? Fuck peer pressure, it doesn't exist, you either do something or you don't. If you give in to something as stupid as that, you won't get anywhere in life anyway.
>
>Fucked up childhood? You think you're the only one who has had one (talking in general here not about anybody in particular)? What about the people who didn't start doing drugs because of that, are they the freaks?
>
>Same thing with alcoholics or people who are addicted to sigarettes. It's your choice to fuck your body (and surroundings) up, don't complain about it afterwards when you get the bill for it.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Apr 5 12:28:01 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>joy said:
>>oh christophe, it's nice to know that you still know everything and that everone else is still wrong =)
>
>
>There are still some certainties in the world.
>
>
>
>Seriously though, you can't give me a single excuse for starting to do drugs.
>
>Fucked up experiences and what not aren't an exception.
>
>If something bad happens to you, you don't go fucking it up even more, period.
>
>If you're a junk, it's because of a choice YOU made and nobody else, so nobody else should have to pay for it or should get blamed.
>
>Peer pressure? Fuck peer pressure, it doesn't exist, you either do something or you don't. If you give in to something as stupid as that, you won't get anywhere in life anyway.
>
>Fucked up childhood? You think you're the only one who has had one (talking in general here not about anybody in particular)? What about the people who didn't start doing drugs because of that, are they the freaks?
>
>Same thing with alcoholics or people who are addicted to sigarettes. It's your choice to fuck your body (and surroundings) up, don't complain about it afterwards when you get the bill for it.
>
In American you would most definitely be a Republican with viewpoints like that.


 
FN Posted: Mon Apr 5 12:35:10 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Lol.

No I don't think I would be, at least not the way they're now.


I'm a liberal in the original meaning of that way of thinking, not a republican and probably not a liberal in the american sense who seem to be socialists, but as far as I've seen most of my ideas go along the lines of american liberals as well.

And I'd never vote for somebody like bush, or kerry for that matter. Don't trust any of them, perhaps I trust kerry even less because he shows a hint of intelligence.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Apr 5 12:41:20 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
perhaps I trust kerry even less because he shows a hint of intelligence.
>
Intelligence ?
This is the man that said "I voted for the war before I voted against it"
Brilliant don't you think ?


 
FN Posted: Mon Apr 5 12:44:56 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Lol.

Yes, Bush is free from such sayings.

If you think Bush is intelligent you're just as dumb as he is, but that's just my point of view and whatever you might say it doesn't change my standpoint about it, I think he's plain stupid.

And I said a >hint of< intelligence, not intelligence.


I don't trust bush and I don't trust kerry. Good luck america.


 
mat_j Posted: Mon Apr 5 12:52:28 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  They're just a Pixies cover band


 
joy Posted: Mon Apr 5 13:14:10 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>And like I said before, a depression isn't a justification, there are plenty of people who go to serious stuff without giving in to drugs. It's still your own choice.

not always. some people were never taught that drugs are bad for you, ie kids who are raised by addicts or even casual users. i've also seen people who HAVE gone through so much shit in their lives (continued rape and abuse) where no matter how against hard drug use/addiction i may be, i looked at the person and realized that that's what it takes for them to get through what they've been through.


>And no, you shouldn't idolize anybody, instead of looking up to other people to do the stuff you'd like to do it's better to do it yourself.

um, role models? true, a heroin addict isn't exactly a great person to look up to, but artists can be role models and inspirations to people, and there's nothing wrong with that.


and btw, in america, you *would* be a republican. whatever it may seem like from your view as a european, you would. trust me, i've dealt with them and all kinds. also, liberals aren't so much socialists as a whole, but very much for civil liberties and some socialist tendencies like unions, healthcare, and help for higher education. with the way things are in america today, a lot of people don't get benifits with their jobs or have to pay through the nose for them when they still can't get the care they need. plus, a lot of companies today just do NOT want to hire full time, but will give some benifits, albeit not always good ones, to part time employees.


 
marsteller Posted: Mon Apr 5 13:53:32 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  i see cobain's death really as just a waste of talent...you never know what he could've been capable of, or what else he might've done. same for everyone else who burns out early.


 
joy Posted: Mon Apr 5 13:55:53 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  my brother has a little theory that kurt offed himself deliberately while they were on top, so to speak, so that nirvana never went bad/downhill.

also, quote my brother: kurt cobain died to make a better band :P


 
FN Posted: Mon Apr 5 14:21:04 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Well, I'm for healthcare, eductional funds, civil liberties, unions, and those sort of things.

So is the liberal party here in Belgium, the VLD (Vlaamse Liberalen & Democraten). They are center-right compared to other parties over here.

I'm not a socialist, but I do believe that doctors should be able to help everybody who has had an accident and so on without having to check for insurance first, I also believe that it's necessary to fund education as it boosts the economy in the long run.

I'm against illegal immigrants, I'm against people who keep leeching on the social security system, stuff like that.

I don't know if you're aware of it but Belgium has one of the best (I think the 2nd in the world, would have to check to be sure but I'm too lazy right now) social security systems in the world, put there by the liberals.



To be very clear about something though: I say I'd probably be liberal if I'd live in america but that doesn't mean I agree with every standpoint they have and disagree with every republican standpoint, I'm just saying that from as much as I've heared most of my opinions seem to be shared by your liberal party.


 
FN Posted: Mon Apr 5 14:23:13 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I also stand for capitalism by the way, which is also a liberal thing.

Over here at least.


 
dan632 Posted: Mon Apr 5 17:09:56 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>To be very clear about something though: I say I'd probably be liberal if I'd live in america but that doesn't mean I agree with every standpoint they have and disagree with every republican standpoint, I'm just saying that from as much as I've heared most of my opinions seem to be shared by your liberal party.

if all politicians agreed and disagreed with the some things then they wouldn't get anywhere, which surprisingly, would be less than what they do now


 
Malik Posted: Mon Apr 5 18:09:18 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Holy shit, this started as a discussion about Grunge/Cobain, and ended up here. (This is why I love GT so much :)

Party labels are the worst idea in politics since politicians (and that was one horrible idea). Who, besides party whores (and yes, there are quite a few people on both sides who simpally go with what their party says), actually agrees with everything that comes out of the DNC or the GOP's collective anus? Even the words liberal and conservative have lost their meaning. Liberal no longer means "for change" and conservative no longer means "against change". They carry an almost an entire ideology, as if you can be liberal or conservative on every issue.

I fancy myself as a libertarian. As in "get the hell away from me, you damn feds" libertarian. Keep the treasury, send the military to the states, and privitize the rest of the federal govt's services. I don't believe in social security, nationwide healthcare, or anything governmental that evens out the playing field of life in the interest of fairness. This makes me one hell of a conservative, right in line with all the people who still have confederate flags flying on their pickup trucks.

However, on social issues, I fancy myself as being liberal. I support abortion, gay marrage. I don't support prayer in schools/courts/government things/churches/etc, if it's a federal thing. That's the catch: I believe the states should have the power to do whatever they want that isn't unconstitutional. If they want to have an established religion, or forbid gay marrage, let 'em have it (I don't agree with it, though). Just make sure there is an alternative.

So what the hell does that make me?




 
Asswipe Posted: Mon Apr 5 18:27:15 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>Intelligence ?
>This is the man that said "I voted for the war before I voted against it"
>Brilliant don't you think ?

intelligence? I was 9lbs, now i'm 140lbs. what's your problem w/ that statement?


 
Paulo Posted: Mon Apr 5 18:30:13 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Grunge spoke to a generation a generation ago. It seems today Kids are either buying Nirvana Records because everyone else is, because the press won't shut up about them or even because they actually genuinly like it.

I liked Nirvana, they were good but the media have turned Cobain into somekind of God, when i don't think he was. He captured the mood at the time with Smells Like Teen Spirit and its rightly become a classic.

But to hear people constantly go on about how good Nirvana was is irritating not in the least because you're never sure whether its their opinion or someone elses.

Then again I happen to be a Pixies fan and as such am disgruntled that Nirvana who openly recognise that they used the soft/loud "dynamic" that the Pixies were largely credited for bringing to us in the eighties hardly get recognition. Plus the fact that Cobain says he was trying to write a Pixies song when he came up with Teen Spirit.

Also that CD that the NME recently brought out with his influences was crap, his favourtie album of all time was POD by the Breeders, you think there was on Breeders song on there?





 
Asswipe Posted: Mon Apr 5 18:32:32 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  economically, liberal stands for government intervention, or evening the societally-disastrous playing grounds that result from pure capitalism.



 
Asswipe Posted: Mon Apr 5 18:35:58 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  all musicians borrow ideas from each other. fucking beethovan used the "soft/loud "dynamic"" a little bit before the pixies did.

Nirvana's pretty dope, not my favorite band, but damn good. to hear them classified as Gods of the rock business... fuck, why not... Gods are merely beings that receive a lot of praise/attention which comes entirely from public approval, not actual skill or whatever.


 
Asswipe Posted: Mon Apr 5 18:42:04 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>I don't see how he could be described as a hero. Because he wrote some songs?
>
>I don't believe in heros.
>
>And like I said before, a depression isn't a justification, there are plenty of people who go to serious stuff without giving in to drugs. It's still your own choice.
>
>
>And no, you shouldn't idolize anybody, instead of looking up to other people to do the stuff you'd like to do it's better to do it yourself.

people have idols because they respect actions/characteristics in other people that they would like to emulate. i know you believe you have all of the answers, and right now, you may, but that's only because you don't have all of the questions.


 
Dancer Posted: Mon Apr 5 22:52:14 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
 
>
>people have idols because they respect actions/characteristics in other people that they would like to emulate. i know you believe you have all of the answers, and right now, you may, but that's only because you don't have all of the questions.


ahhahaha well said..i can't agree more.



 
FN Posted: Tue Apr 6 07:12:20 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Never pretended to have all the answers. I do have my own views and believes.


And like I said before, there's a big difference between respecting somebody for what he or she did or does and idolising that person.

We're talking about a fucking drug addict and people act like he was the new messiah.


 
dan632 Posted: Tue Apr 6 07:20:24 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  i·dol ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dl)
n.
1.
a. An image used as an object of worship.
b. A false god.
2. One that is adored, often blindly or excessively.
3. Something visible but without substance.




 
joy Posted: Tue Apr 6 09:56:10 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>Never pretended to have all the answers.

yeah you do actually, quite often too. i guess the ego was blocking your view.


 
FN Posted: Tue Apr 6 10:03:47 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  joy said:
>Christophe said:
>>Never pretended to have all the answers.
>
>yeah you do actually, quite often too. i guess the ego was blocking your view.


Let's change that statement.


I never SAID I have all the answers :o)


And yes, I have good self-esteem, confidence, and pretty big ego and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Better that than thinking you're worth shit and acting like it.


 
SntSaturn Posted: Tue Apr 6 10:51:01 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  marsteller said:
>i see cobain's death really as just a waste of talent...you never know what he could've been capable of, or what else he might've done. same for everyone else who burns out early.

You also have to look at the other side of that - maybe Cobain's next album would have been complete trash. Just because someone has so much potential doesn't mean they always use it. Thats my problem with the Kurt fannatics.


 
marsteller Posted: Tue Apr 6 14:01:02 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  nah, fuck that. i'd definitely throw down a few bills to hear the next nirvana album, or hendrix, or the doors.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Apr 6 15:52:50 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  marsteller said:
>nah, fuck that. i'd definitely throw down a few bills to hear the next nirvana album, or hendrix, or the doors.
>
Or the next by John Klemmer, Miles Davis, or John Coltrane.


 
joy Posted: Tue Apr 6 16:22:21 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  hif kickin' it old skool with the jazz name dropping.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Apr 6 16:27:40 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  joy said:
>hif kickin' it old skool with the jazz name dropping.
>
Charlie Parker, Thelonius Monk . . .


 
misszero Posted: Thu Apr 15 07:52:26 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  i like the bird.....


 



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