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jesus never existed?
iggy Posted: Mon Apr 5 22:39:34 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

it is interesting what u find these days


 
iggy Posted: Mon Apr 5 22:40:39 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  passion is catholic propoganda.

http://www.letgodbetrue.com/TodaysWorld/passion.htm


 
iggy Posted: Mon Apr 5 22:43:05 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  1000 years of christian brutality, or what the church didn't tell u in sunday school

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/1000years.htm


 
simonvii Posted: Mon Apr 5 22:48:19 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  i didnt read the articles yet, but i do know that there is more evidence for the existence of christ than for george washington


 
iggy Posted: Mon Apr 5 23:00:23 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  lol.

dude, u sound like a christian jumping to the defense immediately.

relax. i'm a christian myself. i'm just putting out material that may interest people from both sides of the fence.


now listen yo.
u can't always listen to one school of teaching.
u can't always hear from one source, u can't base judgement nor come to any conclusion by reading from biased commentaries.

it's always good to seek out secular and non-secular text material.

i read material from all sources but that don't mean my faith is any different, even if i post text, links and materials that debunk my own religion. u can't strengthen your own believes and faith by holding on to biased views. then it becomes one sided and narrow minded.

i've learnt more about religion from die-hard atheists like christophe than from priest or pastors.
at least from non-believers, i know why they refuse to believe and from that i will raise question and at least i seek out answers.

i don't believe my faith will strengthen by reading 'sanctioned' or 'approved' materials. that is bullshit.

i rather go deep into the far end to find out the truths to my own religion.

so far, it's a pretty rough ride.


 
iggy Posted: Mon Apr 5 23:06:27 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  crucifixtion

http://www.uncc.edu/jdtabor/crucifixion.html

interesting read

here's the main page. the sub-sections are interesting.

http://www.uncc.edu/jdtabor/index.html


 
Malik Posted: Mon Apr 5 23:30:28 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  chanz said:
>i've learnt more about religion from die-hard atheists like christophe than from priest or pastors.

Now, how do you think that makes poor Christophe feel? :)

by the way: The" TARGET="_new">http://www.30mb.com/x/malik/george.html">The truth about George Washington


 
Malik Posted: Mon Apr 5 23:31:51 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  God damn it, I can't ever get links to work:

http://www.30mb.com/x/malik/george.html


 
choke Posted: Tue Apr 6 02:13:47 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  jesus makes me mad...... hes like a sequal to a movie.


 
FN Posted: Tue Apr 6 05:41:35 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Malik said:
>chanz said:
>>i've learnt more about religion from die-hard atheists like christophe than from priest or pastors.
>
>Now, how do you think that makes poor Christophe feel? :)
>


I actually admire chanz for saying something like that (that I'm the one who's name is mentioned isn't the point).

It takes a lot of courage to question your own believes.

I think as well that the best way to find out about the stuff you stand for is to discuss it.


 
FN Posted: Tue Apr 6 05:52:26 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/murderers.htm

Went to a museum about this in italy.

You should check out those torture instruments in real life, pictures and drawings don't have the same effect as actually standing in front of one.

Some stuff isn't mentioned there though.

People were hung upside down by their legs between 2 trees or poles, and then they were cut in half with a lumber saw.


Impalement: not so much a religious kind of torture, but still worth mentioning: people (mostly prisinors of war) were impaled upon large stakes, going in their ass as you can imagine and comming out through their mouth. The people who impaled them made sure not to destroy any vital organs, resulting in the fact that the victims sometimes lived on for days, sinking deeper onto the pole every time they moved.

Iron Maiden: a sort of coffin/sarcophages with pins on the inside. Victim was placed in it, the doors were closed thereby impaling the victim on the spikes. Again, the point was to induce suffering, not just to kill, so the pins were placed not to touch any vital organs. As a result it is described in medieval texts how some victims kept on screaming for up to 2 days.


 
FN Posted: Tue Apr 6 05:57:36 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I forgot some others:


A chair (like in a car, so with head support) to which the victim is strapped. In the neck of the chair there is a spike which can be screwed into the back of the victim's head.


A nice religious one perhaps: people who were suspected of being possessed were placed onto a big balance. Weigts were added to the other side untill the right weight was found so the balance was in balance lol.
After that the person who was trialled was excorcised and put onto the balance again. If the weight was different this time it had meant that the demon had left the body, if not it was still inside so the person must have been guilty.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Apr 6 07:03:09 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>A nice religious one perhaps: people who were suspected of being possessed were placed onto a big balance. Weigts were added to the other side untill the right weight was found so the balance was in balance lol.
>After that the person who was trialled was excorcised and put onto the balance again. If the weight was different this time it had meant that the demon had left the body, if not it was still inside so the person must have been guilty.
>
hmmmm, demons are fat, never thought of that one . . .LOL


 
trogdor57 Posted: Tue Apr 6 07:29:11 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  chanz said:
>lol.
>
>dude, u sound like a christian jumping to the defense immediately.
>
>relax. i'm a christian myself. i'm just putting out material that may interest people from both sides of the fence.
>
>
>now listen yo.
>u can't always listen to one school of teaching.
>u can't always hear from one source, u can't base judgement nor come to any conclusion by reading from biased commentaries.
>
>it's always good to seek out secular and non-secular text material.
>
>i read material from all sources but that don't mean my faith is any different, even if i post text, links and materials that debunk my own religion. u can't strengthen your own believes and faith by holding on to biased views. then it becomes one sided and narrow minded.
>
>i've learnt more about religion from die-hard atheists like christophe than from priest or pastors.
>at least from non-believers, i know why they refuse to believe and from that i will raise question and at least i seek out answers.
>
>i don't believe my faith will strengthen by reading 'sanctioned' or 'approved' materials. that is bullshit.
>
>i rather go deep into the far end to find out the truths to my own religion.
>
>so far, it's a pretty rough ride.

Wow, an excellent point... I feel kinda bad now.... hm...


 
simonvii Posted: Tue Apr 6 11:33:12 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  chanz said:
>lol.
>
>dude, u sound like a christian jumping to the defense immediately.
>
>relax. i'm a christian myself. i'm just putting out material that may interest people from both sides of the fence.
>
>
>now listen yo.
>u can't always listen to one school of teaching.
>u can't always hear from one source, u can't base judgement nor come to any conclusion by reading from biased commentaries.
>
>it's always good to seek out secular and non-secular text material.
>
>i read material from all sources but that don't mean my faith is any different, even if i post text, links and materials that debunk my own religion. u can't strengthen your own believes and faith by holding on to biased views. then it becomes one sided and narrow minded.
>
>i've learnt more about religion from die-hard atheists like christophe than from priest or pastors.
>at least from non-believers, i know why they refuse to believe and from that i will raise question and at least i seek out answers.
>
>i don't believe my faith will strengthen by reading 'sanctioned' or 'approved' materials. that is bullshit.
>
>i rather go deep into the far end to find out the truths to my own religion.
>
>so far, it's a pretty rough ride.

yeah, i didnt mean to sound defensive, it was just a thought...and since i didnt read the articles, just the title, its possible my post wasnt even relevant...anyway it was just a thought


 
DanSRose Posted: Tue Apr 6 12:03:20 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  That Jesus Never Existed site is a mixed bag. Lots of what it says in one place is contradictary to what it says in another. It also takes the Bible literaly and at face value, though it was not written in the life of Jesus, was edited again and again, and speaks in metaphor a great deal.
I don't mind people coming off and things like, "The Passion of The Christ" is Catholic propaganda", but at least let them be right- Gibson and family have long parted with the Papacy as the Church was not extreme enough for them.
The last 2 sites, the uncc ones, are credible, as they argue with the facts instead of their blind cause.

I'm an empiricist, positivist, and I have a good deal of post-modernism in me, and the reason why I can't stand that site is they don't argue. They mix up the facts, ignore agency, and take things totally out of context.


 
DanSRose Posted: Tue Apr 6 12:04:20 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  oh yeah. And I'm a Jew too.


 
Christian Posted: Tue Apr 6 12:12:47 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  some lot of people are "God Haters!!"


 
trogdor57 Posted: Tue Apr 6 15:12:53 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  However, I'm not sure it's the best idea to look for trouble.


 
iggy Posted: Tue Apr 6 19:59:53 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  the funny thing about religion is that every one of them thinks that they are right, they are the chosen ones, they are the correct faith.

that thought tickles me all the time.

i had this funny vision that one day when we all die, i'll be somewhere in darkness and i look up and see christophe up there in the light and he shouts out,"bloody hell, i was right after all..."

lol.



 
simonvii Posted: Wed Apr 7 01:18:14 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  chanz said:
>the funny thing about religion is that every one of them thinks that they are right, they are the chosen ones, they are the correct faith.


yeah i think many of us worship the same God, just ignorantly...God is still God by any other name...i do believe there are certain unalienable traits about God that are not refutable and must be consistent to be considered "God's character", but whether you call him God, Jesus, Allah, Jimmy-Bob, Buddha, whatever, He's still God...the names of God may change but God's character remains the same...just my opinion...


 
trogdor57 Posted: Wed Apr 7 14:22:55 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  chanz said:
>the funny thing about religion is that every one of them thinks that they are right, they are the chosen ones, they are the correct faith.
>
>that thought tickles me all the time.
>
>i had this funny vision that one day when we all die, i'll be somewhere in darkness and i look up and see christophe up there in the light and he shouts out,"bloody hell, i was right after all..."
>
>lol.
>

If I didn't think I was the right one, then I don't think I'd really be someone who believes that deeply. Wouldn't you agree?


 
FN Posted: Wed Apr 7 14:35:08 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  There's no reason to think there is a god and there certainly isn't any reason to think one of them is better than the others.


 
iggy Posted: Wed Apr 7 19:16:34 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  trogdor57 said:

>If I didn't think I was the right one, then I don't think I'd really be someone who believes that deeply. Wouldn't you agree?

nope
i don;t


 
libra Posted: Wed Apr 7 19:35:51 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  trogdor57 said:
>
>If I didn't think I was the right one, then I don't think I'd really be someone who believes that deeply. Wouldn't you agree?

Lotsa people believe things that aren't right. And they believe it very deeply. What about hitler's belief that his country had to be wiped of anyone who wasn't aryan. He was really deep in that...and look where that led. What about people in cults who will go commit mass suicide because they're so deeply into what they believe....you can't say that just cause you believe it deeply means it's right, cause others believe something totally different just as deeply...


 
iggy Posted: Wed Apr 7 20:27:17 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  libra said:
you can't say that just cause you believe it deeply means it's right, cause others believe something totally different just as deeply...

exactly.


 
Malik Posted: Wed Apr 7 20:31:02 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I get what you're saying trog. To paraphrase: My personal convicton is so strong that I am sure /that I believe/ I am right.

My emphasis added. Your sentance is true, but what you are trying to assert (that you believe it so much, it must be true) is wrong.

To add to the examples, people, for a long time, believed strongly, just as strongly as you did, that Thor, or Zeus, or Ra, or [insert deity here] truly existed and controlled their lives and their futures. They believed it with all their heart and soul, does this make it any less true?

Well, you could go with the belief that gods exist only in the believe and religion of their worshippers. But the gods still exist, through our beliefs. This point of view also gives us the ability to create God, and then to kill Him whenever we wanted. Fun stuff, huh?



 
iggy Posted: Wed Apr 7 20:32:19 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  dude,

i admire your conviction. but it all boils down to blind faith especially in your case.

u will argue about it and all. but that's the truth. u belive in something so strongly that u refuse to accept any thing else when it comes to religion.

that is blind faith.

keep an open mind, that's what i'm saying.

the thing is that you won't because somewhere in you, u're scared that what u believe in maybe wrong.



 
ifihadahif Posted: Wed Apr 7 21:31:48 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Malik said:
>
>To add to the examples, people, for a long time, believed strongly, just as strongly as you did, that Thor, or Zeus, or Ra, or [insert deity here] truly existed and controlled their lives and their futures. They believed it with all their heart and soul, does this make it any less true?
>
Thor doesn't exist ?
What's up with that ?
He's like the coolest dude, with all that surfer blonde hair and the big hammer and stuff . . .
Oh yeah, cool hat too . . .


 
webmaster Posted: Wed Apr 7 23:26:43 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  chanz said:
>it's always good to seek out secular and non-secular text material.
>
>i read material from all sources but that don't mean my faith is any different, even if i post text, links and materials that debunk my own religion. u can't strengthen your own believes and faith by holding on to biased views. then it becomes one sided and narrow minded.
>
>i've learnt more about religion from die-hard atheists like christophe than from priest or pastors.
>at least from non-believers, i know why they refuse to believe and from that i will raise question and at least i seek out answers.

Very well said.


 



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