Generation Terrorists » Forum
Sign up   |   Start new thread   |   Lost password?   |   Edit profile   |   Member List   |   myGT   |   Blog
Keyword
From
To
 

KUBARK
Zacq Posted: Thu May 6 18:13:24 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  So the Bush administration has basically been 'disavowing all knowledge' about soldiers being tortured and abused by American troops, and that they were acting alone.

But if these acts were just random violence done by some bad people, how come they are exactly what the CIA interrogation handbook KUBARK written in 1963 says to do before questioning prisoners?

http://www.parascope.com/articles/0397/kubark06.htm

The CIA has been interrogating people for forty years using illegal methods and until the widespread use of the internet were able to get away with it unknown.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu May 6 19:17:10 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  awww, do really believe that the CIA or any other intelligence gathering organization is going to serve cookies and milk to try to get information from the bad guys ?
And is that what you would actually want from the guys you pay to keep your freedoms and liberties intact so you can play video games and hang out at the mall ?


 
Zacq Posted: Thu May 6 19:24:59 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Are you actually trying to justify torturing Iraqis, some of whom are taken in out of mere suspicion or for being in the wrong place at the wrong time? Unlike what our government wants, I do not value the life of an American over the life of an Iraqi. If they really wanted to protect my 'freedoms and liberties' they shouldn't have put Hussein in power in the first place.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu May 6 19:31:21 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Zacq said:
>Are you actually trying to justify torturing Iraqis, some of whom are taken in out of mere suspicion or for being in the wrong place at the wrong time? Unlike what our government wants, I do not value the life of an American over the life of an Iraqi. If they really wanted to protect my 'freedoms and liberties' they shouldn't have put Hussein in power in the first place.
>
No, I would never try to justify torturing Iraqi prisoners of war, and if you had read any of my previous posts you would know that I am embarassed about the whole thing, but lets not lose sight of the fact that this is an isolated thing and most Americans are embarassed about it. Also let's not lose sight of the fact that those are not Iraqis, but insurgents from Libya and Iran trying to prevent the establishment of a democracy, and they couldn't care less about true Iraqis. And exactly what "torture" has been mentioned that was really worse than a fucking college hazing that takes place all over the country ?
What I was trying to get across to you was that your KUBARK crap was just that - crap.


 
Zacq Posted: Thu May 6 19:56:36 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  For one, if you think the only things that are happening are no worse than a college hazing you've been watching Fox News, and also I haven't read any of your previous posts because I am new to this forum, so sorry. And no, KUBRAK is not krap, the CIA has been responsible for the deaths of several million people and has taught extreme methods of torture and interrogation to all the governments it overthrows.


 
Zacq Posted: Thu May 6 19:59:46 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  That last part, I realized, makes me seem like some crazy paranoid so I'll mention some examples - Iran, Guatemala, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Brazil, are all countries whose leaders have been overthrown by the CIA in the last forty years.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu May 6 22:01:38 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Zacq said:
>That last part, I realized, makes me seem like some crazy paranoid so I'll mention some examples - Iran, Guatemala, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Brazil, are all countries whose leaders have been overthrown by the CIA in the last forty years.
>
OK, dude, you need to be in a rubber room if you truly believe that. Even if it were true, the number "millions of people is wildly embellished".
So, are you saying that CIA toppled the shah in favor of the Ayatollah ?

Also what ever gave you the idea that we put Saddam Hussein in power ?


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu May 6 22:06:22 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Zacq said:
>For one, if you think the only things that are happening are no worse than a college hazing you've been watching Fox News, and also I haven't read any of your previous posts because I am new to this forum, so sorry.
>
Ok, welcome to GT.
So what torture are you talking about ?
And yes, FOX news is the only news outlet that is not as biased as the rest. They are virtually the only major media outlet that doesn't have a liberal bent.
I sure as hell won't watch ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, BBC, or NPR. I will occasionally watch CNBC though.
Dennis Miller rules !


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu May 6 22:12:40 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I will offer you this little nugget to chew on about the torture of the Iraqi prisoners.
This has been made public and we are ourtraged that it happened. Our president has apologized to the arab community today and vowed punishment to those who committed these atrocious acts.
Name one, just one Arab country that would do the same for us ?
Name one, just one Arab country that would even admit this was the wrong thing to do if it were Americans being tortured.
Remember these folks were dancing in the streets when 9/11 happened.
These are the people that analy gang raped Jessica Lynch.
Let's not be too quick to jump on the "America is a bad guy" bandwagon because of a few bad apples.


 
Zacq Posted: Thu May 6 22:18:22 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I didn't think that was that unknown, as even public schools that I know of teach about the CIA assisting the Ba'ath party and Hussien assassinate Qasim, and the supplying of weapons to fight communism, and etc...

And when I say being responsible for deaths, I mean what happens after they overthrow leaders and replace them, such as Jacobo Arbenz Guzman, who was elected by Guatemala. After the military coup there, military leaders that took control killed hundreds of thousands directly because of the CIA destroying their government.

I won't be around to argue tonight, so if you need something to do find out about Honduras.


 
Zacq Posted: Thu May 6 22:25:11 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  My last post was before your last two - so...

ABC, NBC, and the other mainstream media stations are not liberal. They are also not conservative. They do what will get them ratings, and also try not to piss off the government too much because they won't be able to get us much information. Some journalists may be, but overall they care about the money. I think Jon Stewart puts it best when he compares it to a youth soccer game - they all stand around in a big group. Occasionally the ball comes loose and everyone runs after it, but the rest of the time there is no gameplan.

Second, I'm not exactly sure when I praised Arab countries, but you're using the 'You killed a man so I have permission to steal from another' argument.

But most importantly: Did you ever see Dennis Miller on his brief stint with Monday Night Football? I can never like him after that.

I'm goin' ta bed.


 
dan632 Posted: Thu May 6 23:51:26 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Zacq, my dear Zacq. umm i was always under the impression that the CIA were allowed to use 'just cause'.
why should u give a shit anywayz? they treat those like shit who act like they deserve it. they wouldn't suspect these fuckers of being terrorists if they didn't give them reason to


 
marsteller Posted: Fri May 7 03:36:43 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  the ends justify the means, and all that shit....machiavelli or something like that.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Fri May 7 07:07:54 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Zacq said:
>I didn't think that was that unknown, as even public schools that I know of teach about the CIA assisting the Ba'ath party and Hussien assassinate Qasim, and the supplying of weapons to fight communism, and etc...
>
>And when I say being responsible for deaths, I mean what happens after they overthrow leaders and replace them, such as Jacobo Arbenz Guzman, who was elected by Guatemala. After the military coup there, military leaders that took control killed hundreds of thousands directly because of the CIA destroying their government.
>
umm, there were exactly three (3), CIA operatives that sold some weapons to Saddam Husseinto help him fight Iran.
The number of weapons we sold him were very few, and at the time Hussein was not our enemy. In any event WE DID NOT PUT HIM IN POWER.
And yes, the major networks are liberal in their stance and that has been proven over and over again.


 
addi Posted: Fri May 7 07:35:35 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  hey zacq, welcome to the forum
i like the cut of your gib!
(...and no, that was not a referance to circumcision)

keep fighting the good fight. it's fun to read your responses, but i can tell you from first hand experience that you're beating your head against a brick wall.

as far as some are concerned here:
1. Bush has been totally up front and honest with us regarding the Iraqi war.
2. Liberals are commie unpatriotic subversives, hell bent on destroying everything that is pure and righteous with our country
3. the CIA has never supported an evil despot that tortured his own citizens. Nor has the CIA ever tortured enemies that didn't deserve it. If it's in the best interest of the U.S. their actions are justified, plain and simple.
4. Michael Moore and Al Franken are the twin anti-christs, working for Satin himself.
5. Truth, reason, and common sense are NOT required elements of their belief system. If it feels and sounds patriotic and wholesome it must be right.




 
mat_j Posted: Fri May 7 07:39:57 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  >4. Michael Moore and Al Franken are the twin anti-christs, working for Satin himself.

mmmmm satin


 
addi Posted: Fri May 7 07:50:38 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  mat_j said:

>mmmmm satin

ohhhh, shut up ya anal shlong : )

Satan


 
DanSRose Posted: Fri May 7 12:16:51 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>umm, there were exactly three (3), CIA operatives that sold some weapons to Saddam Husseinto help him fight Iran.
>The number of weapons we sold him were very few, and at the time Hussein was not our enemy. In any event WE DID NOT PUT HIM IN POWER.
>And yes, the major networks are liberal in their stance and that has been proven over and over again.

I'm staying out of another political arguement, but...

CIA co-intel officers are extremely 'talented'. 3 operatives could do a whole lot of damage, are authorized to make national security deals, and, yes, 'interogate' if need be. I am in total support of the Agency as it is now (the one that existed in the 50s, 60s, and 70s served a classic American dogma which has gone out of style as it doesn't work. Evolution, go figure).
But it was 3 agents and a group Reagan sent over including Donald Runsfeld (remember that picture of the Defense Secretary shaking Sadam's hand?).

And the 'liberal' media is mainstream, reflecting the mainstream polictial-social outlook of the public at large.


 



[ Reply to this thread ] [ Start new thread ]