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God Bless the United Nations. . .
ifihadahif Posted: Thu May 20 09:18:34 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  UN Fetish

By Mark Steyn
May 20, 2004

One thing I noticed in Iraq was the missing body parts. Not immediately. I spend most of my time in the Great North Woods of New Hampshire and Quebec and, when you're in old mill towns, it's not unusual to find yourself sitting at a lunch counter with three codgers who can barely muster 10 fingers between them.

So at first I didn't pay much attention to the missing digits and missing limbs. It was the third missing ear I saw - in Ramadi - that made me realize what was really going on. An ear's a hard thing to lose. So's a tongue.



That's why I cannot share the "outrage" over Abu Ghraib of some of the more excitable correspondents



("The Shaming of America: George Bush's boast of shutting down Saddam Hussein's torture chambers in Iraq rings hollow now," according to my chums at The Irish Times).



More to the point, nor do most Iraqis. Representatives of the Shi'ites and Kurds, who between them account for four-fifths of the population, have said nary a word. Ayatollah Sistani, the most prominent figure in the land and a man who can cause the coalition serious trouble any time he wishes, has let the matter lie.



And, as I endeavored to explain last week, most Americans don't share the "outrage." A week later, they share it even less. As Senator Zell Miller, a Democrat, put it:



"Why is it that there's more indignation over a photo of a prisoner with underwear on his head than over the video of a young American with no head at all?"



That wouldn't, in normal circumstances, be a valid comparison. If you go to the hospital in Dublin or Rotterdam and they botch the operation, it's no consolation to be told that it's better treatment than you'd have got in the Sudan. You want your health care to be measured against London, Geneva, Vancouver - not Chad and Rwanda. But for Iraqis, this is the only comparison that matters - pre-April 2003 vs post-April 2003.



The best rule of politics is this: Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good.



Is the Anglo-American occupation of Iraq perfect? No.



Is it good? Yes.



Was Saddam Hussein's rule perfect? No.



Was it good? No.



This shouldn't be a tough call. But, shortly after the liberation, the bespoke apologists for the Middle East's thug regimes and the more depraved "peace activists" in Europe set themselves a tall order - to prove that the Iraqis were better off under Saddam. At first, they confined this proposition to matters such as drinking water.



When some of us pointed out that the potable water supply in Iraq is now double what it was pre-war, or that health care funding is 25 times larger than it was a year ago, Europe's Saddamite cheerleaders gave up this line of attack. It was always rather boring and technocratic, anyway. So now they've got right down to basics - not potable water but "torture." Why, Bush is torturing just as many Iraqis as Saddam did!



The Shia and Kurds know better than to go along with this. No doubt the average American network anchor or New York Times columnist wouldn't want to be led around naked with Victoria's Secret knickers on their heads by some freaky West Virginia slut [you might be surprised].



But I'll bet they'd take it any day over being thrown off a four-story building or having their fingers cut off one by one or being castrated without anaesthetic or being beheaded while the men around you sing "Happy birthday, Saddam." Video and photographic material exists of all the above being performed on Arabs and Kurds.



Readers may recall that last year I wrote about a Canadian female journalist questioned to death by the Iranians. Some British businessmen were brutally tortured by the Saudis. Bad luck, old man. But nobody's fired because nobody cares. By comparison, post-Saddam Iraq is a novelty - an Arab country where state torture is investigated and its perpetrators punished.


But let's go to the next stage. What do the "Bush's boast rings hollow" crowd want for Iraq?



Usually, they want the UN to take over.



Is the UN perfect? No.



Is the UN good? Well, I'm not sure I'd even say that.



But if you object to what's going on in those Abu Ghraib pictures - the sexual humiliation of prisoners and their conscription as a vast army of extras in their guards' porno fantasies - then you might want to think twice about handing over Iraq to the UN.



In Eritrea, the government recently accused the UN mission of, among other offences, pedophilia.



In Cambodia, UN troops fueled an explosion of child prostitutes and AIDS.



Amnesty International reports that the UN mission in Kosovo has presided over a massive expansion of the sex trade, with girls as young as 11 being lured from Moldova and Bulgaria to service international peacekeepers.



In Bosnia, where the sex-slave trade barely existed before the UN showed up in 1995, there are now hundreds of brothels with underage girls living as captives.



The 2002 Save the Children report on the UN's cover-up of the sex-for-food scandal in West Africa provides grim details of peacekeepers' demanding sexual favors from children as young as four in exchange for biscuits and cake powder.



"What is particularly shocking and appalling is that those people who ought to be there protecting the local population have actually become perpetrators," said Steve Crawshaw, the director of Human Rights Watch.



By now you're maybe thinking,



"Hmm. I must have been on holiday the week the papers ran all those stories about 'The Shaming of the UN.'"



In the last few days, The Daily Mirror has had to concede that their pictures of members of the Queen's Lancashire Regiment committing atrocities are all fakes.



The Boston Globe has admitted that their pictures of US troops sexually abusing Iraqi women are also phony.



The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation has apologized for claiming that Israel was implicated in the events at Abu Ghraib.



Why would these big-media fact-checked-to-death news operations get suckered so easily?



Because, to the great herd of independent minds, these stories conform to their general view that all the ills of the world can be laid at the door of Bush, Blair, and Sharon.



Are the media perfect? No.



Are the media good? After these last two weeks, I think I'll pass on that one.



 
FN Posted: Thu May 20 09:47:18 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  So what are you trying to say with this hif, it's just some guy blabbering away.


 
FN Posted: Thu May 20 09:47:40 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  You haven't replied to one of my previous posts yet by the way.


 
casper Posted: Thu May 20 09:50:11 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>So what are you trying to say with this hif, it's just some guy blabbering away.

how come whenever somebody states something that goes against your opinion it's just "some guy blabbering away" while if somebody states something that goes with your idealogy it's factual and proof?


 
FN Posted: Thu May 20 09:58:22 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  casper said:
>how come whenever somebody states something that goes against your opinion it's just "some guy blabbering away" while if somebody states something that goes with your idealogy it's factual and proof?

So tell me which stuff that I have said is false.

Like with the numbers I gave in the other thread, you can all look them up or calculate them yourself if you feel like it, and the thing about the torture and stuff is all from the Taguba report.

I just don't see what the guy is trying to say with this article.

That fake pictures of americans being happy with the suffering of Iraqi's were shown?

I remember this one thing on CNN were they showed how happy the arabs supposedly were when the WTC-towers collapsed.


 
casper Posted: Thu May 20 10:00:24 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>casper said:
>>how come whenever somebody states something that goes against your opinion it's just "some guy blabbering away" while if somebody states something that goes with your idealogy it's factual and proof?
>
>So tell me which stuff that I have said is false.
>
>Like with the numbers I gave in the other thread, you can all look them up or calculate them yourself if you feel like it, and the thing about the torture and stuff is all from the Taguba report.
>
>I just don't see what the guy is trying to say with this article.
>
>That fake pictures of americans being happy with the suffering of Iraqi's were shown?
>
>I remember this one thing on CNN were they showed how happy the arabs supposedly were when the WTC-towers collapsed.

i didn't say anything you've said was false...i'm merely noting that anybody's opinion that differs from yours has no validity in your mind


 
marsteller Posted: Thu May 20 13:07:04 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  fuck it man....prisoners have been tortured for thousands of years, that's just kinda how it works....everyone needs to just get the fuck over it, realize this shit happens, and it's not new, and it's not gonna stop anytime soon.


 
FN Posted: Thu May 20 13:24:38 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  marsteller said:
>fuck it man....prisoners have been tortured for thousands of years, that's just kinda how it works....everyone needs to just get the fuck over it, realize this shit happens, and it's not new, and it's not gonna stop anytime soon.

Perhaps, I don't care that much either but it's the hypocrisy surrounding it.


 
casper Posted: Thu May 20 13:28:24 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>marsteller said:
>>fuck it man....prisoners have been tortured for thousands of years, that's just kinda how it works....everyone needs to just get the fuck over it, realize this shit happens, and it's not new, and it's not gonna stop anytime soon.
>
>Perhaps, I don't care that much either but it's the hypocrisy surrounding it.

where's the hipocrisy? these soldiers fucked up...it happens...and they are being punished for it.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu May 20 13:47:33 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  hmmm, what are the interrogation techniques in Western Europe for prisoners of war ?

Chris sees hipocracy, but he sees it through a veil of ignorance because he is so eager to slam America that he will jump at anything to prove it.


 
FN Posted: Thu May 20 14:22:29 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>hmmm, what are the interrogation techniques in Western Europe for prisoners of war ?
>
>Chris sees hipocracy, but he sees it through a veil of ignorance because he is so eager to slam America that he will jump at anything to prove it.

Yes hif, you're on to me, I get a kick out of it and it pleases me in a sexual way.


 
Zacq Posted: Thu May 20 15:03:26 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  marsteller said:
>fuck it man....prisoners have been tortured for thousands of years, that's just kinda how it works....everyone needs to just get the fuck over it, realize this shit happens, and it's not new, and it's not gonna stop anytime soon.

Just because something is going to happen doesn't mean there is no reason to oppose it. Pacifists, for example, will probably never succeed in abolishing violence, but without some of them violence would get out of hand. Even if 'immoral' interrogation methods will continue to be used, if no one is openly against it it will become something much worse. Say society were to get used to the idea of sexually abusing prisoners. Then if in a further generation, killing them for not complying in front of other prisoners would become the controversial topic. Eventually, without someone opposing violence and hatred even if it's necessary, it gets out of hand.


 
zander83 Posted: Thu May 20 17:53:17 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I have to say though that i doubt anyone was less outraged by a public mutilation then by torture. If anyone is its because they're idiots. The reason i think so many people were horrified by the torture was because americans were there to be the moral authority, the great benefactor... and while i certainly don't see that role diminished by the torture i can understand how many might. After all many countries warned the states not to go to war. Its now there prerogative to say a certain "I told you so". Lets also not forget that people are stupid so certain allowances have to be made...


 
marsteller Posted: Thu May 20 17:56:30 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  the only way the soldiers fucked up was by takin pictures and video....fuckin dumbasses


 
addi Posted: Thu May 20 18:01:05 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  marsteller
i know it seems like i pick on you a lot lately, but it's only because you give me just cause

you are a fuckin' dumbshit


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu May 20 18:35:56 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  By Robert Spencer
May 20, 2004

In the light of the recent feeding frenzy in the press over some Mujahideen warriors who got their feelings hurt, it is apparent that many Americans don’t “get it” that we are in a war for our survival. The article that follows is a corrective, particularly in light of the prison scandal and the unseemly and self-destructive hysteria over it. The prisoners being made into victims in the prison abuse debacle in Iraq were captured with guns in their hands in Iraq trying to kill our soldiers. They are apocalyptic Muslim warriors/terrorists who live to die while killing us. They are hard cases and tough to break for information, information which could save American and Iraqi lives.

As we’ve listened to this prison case unfold we have heard that out of a 700 person Military Police Battalion there are seven or eight people who have poor judgment. However, the abuses they are charged with committing are mainly those of petty things like changing the eating cycle of the prisoners, leaving the lights on 24 hours per day (sleep deprivation) and other techniques designed to break down a prisoner’s resistance to tough questions. It is rough treatment and the 780 American dead from Iraq probably wish that we had gotten a lot tougher a lot sooner so we could have known where the terrorist was who killed them. That’s what is at stake here – survival. If some Muslim warrior from Yemen who went to Iraq to kill Americans gets his feelings hurt – just remember – he was not arrested by a street cop for spitting on the sidewalk. He was dragged from his fighting hole by our soldiers. He’s a Yemeni and he’s in Iraq. Why is that? Why is he not in Yemen?

The three things every American needs to understand (and what this article makes clear) is that our enemy is not one organization (al-Qaeda), that the this war did not start on 9/11, and that it will not be over until our enemies are disarmed and dead.

"the article that followed was very very long, so I decided not to cut and paste it here, if any of you want to see it go here: http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13454




 
marsteller Posted: Thu May 20 19:00:17 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison, hey man, if those assholes didn't take pictures, nobody would even know about this shit except for a few demoralized Jawas that were the fuckers startin shit in the first place.
you don't go makin home videos while you're doin bad shit, it's just asking to get caught. i think the real issue should be the level of intelligence required for entrance into the military.


 
FN Posted: Thu May 20 19:06:21 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>marsteller
>i know it seems like i pick on you a lot lately, but it's only because you give me just cause
>
>you are a fuckin' dumbshit


Hmm.

I'm currently reading the diary of a Belgian camera crew that took a map of the US and a ruler and then drawed a straight line from the most eastern to the most western part of the US and just followed that line and visited whatever city or village they'd encounter.

Judging from that there seem to be a lot of martsellers out there lol.

Disturbing.


 
addi Posted: Thu May 20 19:23:37 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  marsteller said:
>addison, hey man, if those assholes didn't take pictures, nobody would even know about this shit except for a few demoralized Jawas that were the fuckers startin shit in the first place.


in a twisted perverted screwed up illogical sort of way I see your point, mars.

that scares me more than casper starting to make sense! ; )




 
Zacq Posted: Thu May 20 21:29:53 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  marsteller said:
>addison, hey man, if those assholes didn't take pictures, nobody would even know about this shit except for a few demoralized Jawas that were the fuckers startin shit in the first place.
>you don't go makin home videos while you're doin bad shit, it's just asking to get caught. i think the real issue should be the level of intelligence required for entrance into the military.

Actually, I heard that the reason pictures were taken was so they could be shown to incoming prisoners to make them talk easier.


 
JAZER Posted: Thu May 20 23:19:59 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Your still making alright Addi, its when i start making sense when you should worry!


 
Asswipe Posted: Fri May 21 03:55:48 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  the only difference between the world today and the world 3000 years ago is the easy ability to communicate... 3000 years ago christophe would have never heard about the US and he'd be quite content licking sheep nipples for fun


 
iggy Posted: Fri May 21 05:50:26 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:
>the only difference between the world today and the world 3000 years ago is the easy ability to communicate... 3000 years ago christophe would have never heard about the US and he'd be quite content licking sheep nipples for fun

hehhehheh.
that would be the funniest thing i've heard all day


 
FN Posted: Fri May 21 06:31:16 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:
>he'd be quite content licking sheep nipples for fun

So would americans.

The real americans that is, the native ones.


 
addi Posted: Fri May 21 07:35:13 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:
>he'd be quite content licking sheep nipples for fun


you say this like it's bad or something

: )




 
ifihadahif Posted: Fri May 21 08:17:36 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>Asswipe said:
>>he'd be quite content licking sheep nipples for fun
>
>
>you say this like it's bad or something
>
> : )
>
I like sheep nipples.
Batter dipped with a little salt and pepper and deep fried.
Popcorn nipples . . . mmmmmmmgood !


 
addi Posted: Fri May 21 22:58:20 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I don't like what i'm reading and hearing about the prisoner of war debacle today. Memorandums surfacing from the white house calling the geneva convention rules "quaint" and outdated?!

Colin Powell's outrage with the administrations "new" interpretation of POW treatment.

President Bush himself turning a deaf ear to Powell and accepting Sanchez's (sp) loose interpretation of the rule of law for humane prisoner treatment.

The low suckers on the totem pole taking the fall for actions that must have come from a general prisoner policy approved by much higher ups.

My gut tells me that this is just the tip of the iceberg, and that new revelations will continue to surface implicating white house and pentagon big wigs. and, no, the thought doesn't bring me any pleasure whatsoever because it underminds what still needs to be done in Iraq and can't help the moral of the soldiers.
On the other hand the american public has a right to know if this administration has essentially changed a longstanding policy of adherance to the Geneva laws on the sly

I think what really upsets me is that the convention has been followed for decades by every previous administration to protect our captured soldiers. Now after the world sees the high esteem we hold for the geneva convention standards our soldiers could face a much worse situation if they are capured in future wars. We have nothing to fall back on.

Many intelligence experts say that torture isn't effect anyway to get information. the prisoner will tell the torturer what they want to hear to stop the pain. So it's not even a smart policy to impliment. it's sad to me to discover that this has been going on for so long there and that it took photographs being made public for it to get addressed.

I see all this as just one more example of renegade cowboy Bush doing things his way. Bummer




 
FN Posted: Sat May 22 11:03:28 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sat May 22 20:17:25 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Sorry, but I have no compassion for these prisoners. These are guys that were trying to kill American soldiers when they were captured and they would kill every living non-muslim including women and children if they could, and they would also put Saddam back in power if they could.
None of the photos released so far, show what I would call real torture either. Admittedly some human rights violations have occurred, but where do draw the line when interrogating a prisoner of war ? Remember these are not captured soldiers, they are captured terrorists, this is something we've never encountered before. These guys probably have information that can save innocent lives.


 
addi Posted: Sun May 23 09:49:13 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  GOP Senator Rips Bush on Iraq, Terrorism

May 22, 2004 09:22 PM EDT

MEDFORD, Mass. - Republican Sen. Richard G. Lugar on Saturday said the United States isn't doing enough to stave off terrorism and criticized President Bush for failing to offer solid plans for Iraq's future.

Unless the country commits itself to such measures, "we are likely to experience acts of catastrophic terrorism that would undermine our economy, damage our society and kill hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people," the Indiana senator said during an appearance at the Fletcher School at Tufts University.

Lugar said military might alone isn't enough to eradicate terrorism.

"To win the war against terrorism, the United States must assign U.S. economic and diplomatic capabilities the same strategic priority that we assign to military capabilities," he said.

He later added, "Military action is necessary to defeat serious and immediate threats to our national security. But the war on terrorism will not be won through attrition - particularly since military action will often breed more terrorists and more resentment of the United States."

It's not the first time that Lugar has criticized Bush, a fellow Republican. In 2003, Lugar and Sen. Joseph Biden, the committee's top Democrat, warned that the Bush administration had not given enough consideration to what would happen in Iraq after the fighting ended.

-------------

Addi's comments

Lugar said, "...military action will often breed more terrorists and more resentment of the United States."

Well DUH!

even Bush's own party is beginning to publically critisize his policies. the sad thing is I don't feel like pointing fingers, gloating, or saying I told you so.
It's just sad and maddening.





 
FN Posted: Sun May 23 10:12:39 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>Sorry, but I have no compassion for these prisoners. These are guys that were trying to kill American soldiers when they were captured and they would kill every living non-muslim including women and children if they could, and they would also put Saddam back in power if they could.
>None of the photos released so far, show what I would call real torture either. Admittedly some human rights violations have occurred, but where do draw the line when interrogating a prisoner of war ? Remember these are not captured soldiers, they are captured terrorists, this is something we've never encountered before. These guys probably have information that can save innocent lives.


Tell me how covering somebody with shit in a hallway helps to interrogate them


 
FN Posted: Sun May 23 10:15:04 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Still no clear answer as to why iraq was attacked and not north korea by the way.


 
marsteller Posted: Mon May 24 20:17:44 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>in a twisted perverted screwed up illogical sort of way I see your point, mars.

twisted and perverted, perhaps, according to your own point of view, but i think that's the most logical way of looking at it. keep out your feelings for those poor tortured jawas, it clouds judgment


 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon May 24 20:34:23 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>>even Bush's own party is beginning to publically critisize his policies. the sad thing is I don't feel like pointing fingers, gloating, or saying I told you so.
>It's just sad and maddening.
>
You think the words of one senator playing politics constitutes the rest of the republican party ? you're reaching pretty far there. There's nothing to point fingers about or gloat where this is concerned, certainly not during the same week a sarin gas shell is exploded in Iraq and mustard gas is found as well.


 
addi Posted: Mon May 24 22:24:08 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>You think the words of one senator playing politics constitutes the rest of the republican party ? you're reaching pretty far there.

my reach is just fine, hif : )
the story was about Lugar. that's why he's the focus in it. If I had said "dozens of top washington republicans speak out against Bush" and only mentioned Lugar then you may have had a valid point.

and i suggest you expand your news sources. you'd discover there are more republicans (pundits and politicians) out there than Lugar publically concerned about Bush's policies. And the republicans not saying anything, but keeping their concern to themselves is more than likely much more substantial.
-----------------------

Senator airs GOP war discomfort

May 13, 2004

BY ROBERT NOVAK SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

Sen. Pat Roberts of Kansas is an old-fashioned conservative and a loyal Republican who happens to be the current chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee...The lecture paid sincere tribute to George W. Bush for the ''courage to act'' after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, and in this election year Roberts is not sniping at the Republican president. Nevertheless, the former Marine officer from Dodge City, Kan., is blunt in addressing two overriding problems in the war on terror: lack of accountability in the intelligence community and a messianic desire to recast the world in the American image.

----------------------------

(CBS) By David Paul Kuhn,
CBSNews.com Chief Political Writer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

President Bush is facing increasing dissent among leading conservative politicians and pundits in the face of mounting U.S. casualties in Iraq...

If we have two or three more weeks of this you are going to start to see Republican members of Congress who have never been critical of President Bush and the Iraq policy starting to get that way," said Charles Cook, editor of the nonpartisan Cook Political Report.

Republican Party ranks are beginning to break and the White House is worried. Longtime GOP critics on Iraq are growing progressively more vocal in their condemnation...

Usually loyal pundits are speaking out, too. Conservative columnist George Will wrote in The Washington Post on Wednesday, "U.S. forces in Iraq are insufficient."

The White House continues to claim that most Iraqis support the American presence. But even some ardent conservative backers of the president are voicing skepticism.

"I'm not buying this 'Iraqis are on the American side' right now," Fox News’ Bill O’Reilly said on the Tuesday night broadcast of "The O’Reilly Factor." The leading conservative commentator repeatedly called the current conflict a "second war in Iraq."

O'Reilly added, "I think Rumsfeld has got a lot of explaining to do here. There's a lot of mistakes that are now killing American soldiers."

Fellow conservative pundit and former Republican congressman Joe Scarborough of MSNBC was even more critical in his broadcast Tuesday.

Scarborough: "Do we need more troops in Iraq? Hell, yes, we do. ... Should June 30 handover date to the Iraqis be extended? You can bet your life on it ... because creating this false deadline in time for a presidential election is no way to win a war."
---------------------------------

Senator Lugar has plenty of company.



 
addi Posted: Mon May 24 22:40:47 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  marsteller said:

>twisted and perverted, perhaps, according to your own point of view, but i think that's the most logical way of looking at it. keep out your feelings for those poor tortured jawas, it clouds judgment

Expecting fair and humane treatment of our soldiers when they're captured, and expecting American troops to hold to a high standard and honor the Geneva convention laws I don't feel constitutes clouded judgement on my part.
I don't want the Iraqi prisoners to get special treatment, just humane treatment.

too much Booze and Bongs, now that can cloud ones judgement


 
marsteller Posted: Tue May 25 01:12:20 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  actually, i gave up the bong a little while ago. no mo' smokin for me.


 
marsteller Posted: Tue May 25 01:13:38 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  as for the booze, i stick to beer now. i can drink lots of it, and doesn't give me a hangover. helps a lot when you're workin 70+ hours a week, plus managing a girlfriend and social life.


 
Mesh Posted: Tue May 25 01:34:11 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  marsteller I suggest you give corona a try. I think you will like it.


 
addi Posted: Tue May 25 08:34:28 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  marsteller said:
>actually, i gave up the bong a little while ago. no mo' smokin for me.

i was going to say something stupid and trite like

Way to Go!

but I know you could care less about what i think

so I'll just leave it at
smart decision dude. too much of a good thing is too much. your banana will thank you years from now.


 
antartica Posted: Tue May 25 08:42:37 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>too much Booze and Bongs, now that can cloud ones judgement

is that ever possible? heh... ignore me...


 
addi Posted: Tue May 25 08:47:00 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  antartica said:
>addison said:
>>too much Booze and Bongs, now that can cloud ones judgement
>
>is that ever possible? heh... ignore me...

LOL
you are impossible to ignore, Ant!
anyhowz I wouldn't want to.
glad you seem to have access once again. just like ol' times : )


 
antartica Posted: Tue May 25 09:04:43 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>LOL
>you are impossible to ignore, Ant!
>anyhowz I wouldn't want to.
>glad you seem to have access once again. just like ol' times : )

he heh heh... i'm sucha sccchhhhhluuut!


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue May 25 09:26:42 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>marsteller said:
>
>>twisted and perverted, perhaps, according to your own point of view, but i think that's the most logical way of looking at it. keep out your feelings for those poor tortured jawas, it clouds judgment
>
>Expecting fair and humane treatment of our soldiers when they're captured, and expecting American troops to hold to a high standard and honor the Geneva convention laws I don't feel constitutes clouded judgement on my part.
>I don't want the Iraqi prisoners to get special treatment, just humane treatment.
>
How do you go about an interrogation and treat them humanely at the same time ? I'm in agreement with you where the average soldier is concerned, but if a captured enemy has information that can save American lives then do what you must within reason.
I mean, you don't see any of these guys with their nails pulled out or gaping wounds or even black eyes do you ?
This is war and these guys would kill every one of us if given the opportunity, I'm not sure we've been harsh enough on them.


 



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