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Capital punishment.
laurie Posted: Thu Jul 8 16:36:20 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  As part of our standard grade course in Religious Moral Education, (RME)me and ONZ (she is here on GT somewhere, she's just very quiet) have to give a report on a moral issue. We're both doing capital punishment, and need alot of people from different backgrounds points of views on the subject of the death penalty. We seem to be pretty multicultural here, so please could we have your thoughts on the matter?(should it be allowed? is it allowed in your country? does it work in the justice system? ect ect) Basically, any opinions, arguments, or rantings would be very much appreciated, you'd be doing us a big favour and would get a wee mention!
thanks. : )


 
FN Posted: Thu Jul 8 16:46:13 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Belgium:


Capital punishment doesn't exist here.

The maximum you can get is lifelong, which translates into 25 years (that is per murder, for example, ofcourse, so you can get lifelong several times).

However, convicts can get probation after 2 thirds of their sentence (which is in most cases very unlikely but the possibility is there).




Personal opinion:


I don't believe in capital punishment.

It's too easy.

I can see how people can get momentary satisfaction from it but I would prefer somebody to rot in jail and have some miserable decades instead of giving them a painless and quick death.

Another thing would be that some cases get reviewed after a while and that when that happens justice could still be done, instead of having the system murder an innocent person.

I believe in lifelong imprisonment in the worst possible conditions, according to the crime, rape and/or murder for example which would be the most serious ones.

At the moment I don't think people actually fear imprisonment over here.

I am convinced that that should change, at least for serious crimes.

I'm also convinced that people would fear lifelong imprisonment in hazardous circumstances more than humane capital punishment.


 
casper Posted: Thu Jul 8 17:22:22 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Whether the death penalty should be used depends upon what you believe to be the point of the punishment. I can only think of two reasons people would utilize the death penalty. The first being reason to deter other people from committing murder. This is impractical at best. If somebody is going to commit murder either itís a ďcrime of passionĒ and they are not thinking of the consequences or they believe they will get away with it. (this of course does not include the sociopath whom nobody can figure out why he or she is doing the murder anyways). In either of those two cases the threat of the death penalty means nothing. The second reason for would be to simply keep a murderer from committing homicides. The only problem I have with this would be the cost of actually performing the death penalty on a convicted killer. Iím not sure how accurate the information is but if you go to www.deathpenaltyinfo.org they break down about how much it costs per state. Personally I think if you are going to convict somebody of murder and decide he/she deserves the death penalty then you should just take a 23 cent bullet and do the damn thing. Otherwise you might as well just keep him locked up for life. Of course I disagree with how prisoners get treated in the penal system as it is. I work an average of 10 hours a day 5-7 days a week for what basically puts me in the low income tax bracket. While these criminals get to watch cable TV and complain about the food. They should be put to good use such cleaning the trash lined freeways and other projects that everyday citizens donít wish to perform. But thatís a different rant J


 
erikagm Posted: Thu Jul 8 17:26:30 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Here in Mexico capital punishment doesnt exist either... except in the military and, for the general population, in case of high treason against the country.

Otherwise, it's life sentence.

Now, I like the idea of capital punishment as in that they are no longer a burden to society, and there's no risk of them coming out to do a repeat act of what they were imprisoned for in the first place.

Personally I loathe life sentences because it just allows criminals to loaf and live off of decent people, who, through taxes, keep them as kings. Prisoners here can have tv, phone, gym, psychiatrist and god knows what other types of privileges... You'd think it was a spa instead of a prison. They live better than half the population...

If it was up to me, I'd make them learn their lesson... Pull out their fingernails one by one... tear out large chunks of skin and pour salt over the wounds... pour boiling oil in their ears... etc...

Hey, it wouldnt be a bad idea to leave them blind, deaf and mute... that way they couldnt do a repeat, yet they would have to live the rest of their lives suffering... hmmm... not a bad idea...

Yes, im vicious... and i thoroughly enjoy it.


 
FN Posted: Thu Jul 8 17:51:20 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Nah, that's taking it a bit too far.

Besides, you'd never get that into reality.


I'd prefer the offender to rot away in solitary confinement, a cell without any windows where the lights get turned on half an hour a day, every time on a different time, and let them out of it for about a day a month to get cleaned up and let them see what they're missing again so the memory of the "real world" doesn't die enough to make the solitude hurt less.


 
Zacq Posted: Thu Jul 8 18:05:38 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Capital punishment, to me, seems to go against the 'no cruel or unusual punishment' thing in the U.S. Constitution, because being aware that you are about to die must be the worst possible feeling in the world.

It's also not much of a deterrent, because murder rates in death penalty states have actually risen as compared to non death penalty states, and most police officers list capital punishment as the least effective thing at stopping crime.

It also costs considerably more to execute someone than to keep them in jail for life. The last numbers I recall were about 700,000 dollars in Texas to imprison someone for life, as opposed to 3.2 million for an execution.

It also results in innocent deaths.

So yeah. Capital punishment is bad.


 
kurohyou Posted: Thu Jul 8 19:25:59 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I think one of the biggest questions surrounding the issue of capital punishment and the justice system in general here in America is the very idea of jusitce.

What is justice? I would argue that the current justice system, while an attempt. is a poor attempt at administering justice to those whow break the law.

Our justice system tries to dole out justice and I fear that often times it fails. I don't consider giving a man who raped and murdered any woman 34 consecutive life sentences is justice. He will have his needs met, she is dead and in all liklihood died horribly. That is not justice to me.

I guess the concept I have a problem with is the idea of giving rights to those who thought it a good idea to deprive another of their rights, be it to dignity, property or life.

Yet when I sit down to think about it I run up against a self perpetuating cycle. Is it justice to put the family of the murder through the torment of losing a child to death as well?

There is a decent portion of me that thinks that the death penalty in the US simply isn't taken seriously. Not considering the validity of its correctness, but the very nature of the death penalty doesn't do much to deterr crime. If I kill someone, and I get the death penalty, it will still take them a good many years to kill me while I appeal every week or so, demand retrials, and all this time earn a degree, and perhaps produce a rap album from the cozy walls of my prison cell. So I don't feel its a detterant. (Spelled horribly wrong I fear)

I'm going to have to think about this a lot more tonight, and reformulate, I fear I've rambled and gone nowhere.

I do think a very important question surrounding this issue is what is justice?





 
kurohyou Posted: Thu Jul 8 19:29:32 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Zacq said:
>
>
>It also costs considerably more to execute someone than to keep them in jail for life. The last numbers I recall were about 700,000 dollars in Texas to imprison someone for life, as opposed to 3.2 million for an execution.
>
I think Chris Rock has a skid on SNL one night about the death Penalty being so expensive and the one thing he said that I remember was

"hey, stabbing is free..."

Morbid, yet strangly accruate. Why does it cost so much to kill someone? I've heard those stats to and they don't make sense to me.


 
Zacq Posted: Thu Jul 8 19:34:36 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  kurohyou said:
>Morbid, yet strangly accruate. Why does it cost so much to kill someone? I've heard those stats to and they don't make sense to me.

The state has to pay a lot of money for all the appeal processes and stuff that goes on.

Here's another problem. Say you kill some people (please don't). You did it in the heat of the moment, and you're panicking - then you realize that you probably have the death penalty and you start panicking more. So it might occur to you to kill off any witnesses to protect yourself.


 
erikagm Posted: Thu Jul 8 19:46:46 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  mroe the reason. if the bastard is capable of killing in cold blood to protect his ass as well, then he -deserves- to be murdered...

Now, say this person stabbed a woman 34 times to kill her... I would say stab the person 34 times each year, on the anniversary of the victim's death... Just not let him die... Make him relive what he did each year...

Or, as an optative, we could make him work his ass off, and have him provide the family of the deceased with whatever that person could possibly have provided them. Make them work inside prison, and make them earn their keep. They dont work, they dont eat. period.

If they wanna starve themselves thats fine by me


 
libra Posted: Thu Jul 8 20:01:46 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I'm against the death penalty. I think that people should get life in prison, but not have what they have now...no TV, no magazines, books, all of that, for these murderers. They should get a bare cell, and not see other people. If they can't get along with others in the real world, why should they have the priviledge of human contact in prison?


 
Kira Posted: Thu Jul 8 20:37:56 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  In the U.S. capital punishment is 'allowed,' but whether it is used and how it is done varies from state to state.

I am against the death penalty. It is not justice, it is revenge by the state. It is not punishment, the dead cannot learn and will never have the opportunity to change. I have never seen convincing evidence that it is a deterrent to possible criminals. Lastly, death is final: convictions not always so. One innocent executed is one too many.

As long as a person is not an imminent threat to others, no one has the right to take his life. Ayn Rand says it much better than I can:

"So long as men desire to live together, no man may initiate the use of physical force against others....When a man attempts to deal with me by force, I answer himóby force. It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had the right to choose: his own."


 
Zacq Posted: Thu Jul 8 20:38:45 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  As some guy said, and I probably got this from the GT quotes section, 'Why do we kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?"


 
mat_j Posted: Fri Jul 9 09:27:53 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I haven't bothered to read any of the above posts but


NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO


The state should not be allowed to kill you.

In Britain we abolished hanging in th 1960s and it's one of the best things to happen to the country. You can release an innocent man from prison but you can't raise him from the dead!


To quote the Wu-Tang Clan

"Homicides illegal and death is the penalty,
What justifies the homicide when he dies?"


 
Nikki Posted: Fri Jul 9 12:23:13 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  capital punishment is stupid

based on instinct not rationale

gratifys no one


 
Archangel Posted: Sat Jul 10 22:08:54 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I believe the death penalty is just, if I were religious I would say something such as "an eye for an eye", and I couldn't honestly care less about the "deterent effect".

However, it does cost significantly more to imprison a person for life and you can release them if they are proved innocent, so until the justice system is perfect (it never will be) I don't support its use.


 
ONZ Posted: Sun Jul 11 12:13:18 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Hey thanks for all your input everyone !


 
dan632 Posted: Sun Jul 11 12:26:38 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  AAAARRRGGHHHHH!!!! the figure in the shady corner is talking to me


 
Archangel Posted: Sun Jul 11 17:11:33 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Archangel said:
>However, it does cost significantly more to imprison a person for life

Eh... that should be "significantly less..."


 
Mesh Posted: Sun Jul 11 18:09:12 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I cant wait until I die because I'm going to hell.


 
choke Posted: Sun Jul 11 18:25:12 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  meshuggah said:
>I cant wait until I die because I'm going to hell.

Well thats one way of looking at it i guess


 
Mouse Posted: Mon Jul 12 14:32:15 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  meshuggah said:
>I cant wait until I die because I'm going to hell.

Haha! Yeah, heaven sounds so boring.
Besides, I love fire and the company will be more interesting.


 
Puck Posted: Fri Jul 23 00:40:04 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  casper said:
>The only problem I have with this would be the cost of actually performing the death penalty on a convicted killer.
It would cost more to keep them alive.

I heard that the US gov pays more for a convict than a student, so if schools here were called...something to the effect of "part-time imprisonment centers", I'd be getting a better education. Schools where I live are running on last school year's funds.


 
Puck Posted: Fri Jul 23 00:43:41 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Puck said:
>It would cost more to keep them alive.

than to shoot them.


 
Puck Posted: Fri Jul 23 01:12:34 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I always thought that omnicide was a good idea. None would be sad for the loss, because they'd all be dead.

(to god)"Do you have any idea what's going on down there?!! People are suffering, and people like...well...me, heh, are running around!! Suicide, Genocide!! People are killing moose!! You buy a video game system, and a better one comes out in a month!!! Powdered eggs?!!! Self esteem is so low, girls are buyin wonder bras!!!"-Nny


 
antartica Posted: Fri Jul 23 01:13:44 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Puck said:
>Puck said:
>>It would cost more to keep them alive.
>
>than to shoot them.

i wouldn't be too sure about that anymore...

US MILITARY'S PROBLEM
Bullet shortage

more...... http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/world/story/0,4386,262956,00.html


 
antartica Posted: Fri Jul 23 01:15:28 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Puck said:
>I always thought that omnicide was a good idea. None would be sad for the loss, because they'd all be dead.
>
>(to god)"Do you have any idea what's going on down there?!! People are suffering, and people like...well...me, heh, are running around!! Suicide, Genocide!! People are killing moose!! You buy a video game system, and a better one comes out in a month!!! Powdered eggs?!!! Self esteem is so low, girls are buyin wonder bras!!!"-Nny

so.... where is the love?


 
Puck Posted: Fri Jul 23 01:22:37 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  antartica said:
>Puck said:
>It would cost more to keep them alive than to shoot them.
>
>i wouldn't be too sure about that anymore...

I'm reminded of the Chris Rock bit on Bowling for Columbine. But I can't imagine a bullet costing more than "700,000 dollars".


 
Puck Posted: Fri Jul 23 01:31:32 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  antartica said:
>so.... where is the love?

Nny knows not of this "love".


 



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