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It is hard to believe.
Silentmind Posted: Wed Mar 16 19:50:40 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  It has been a rough few months for me lately, and a lot to deal with. That is an understatement of the greatest degree. It is really amazing how your friends can be so supportive when something first comes out, and then once the long haul sets in, and then you become invisible. I was sitting at a table at lunch, crying, and my friends ignored me. Totally ignored me. And then later told me that they noticed, but decided not to do anything. Let me feel alone. They couldn't even give me a hug to make me feel that there was someone there. I talked to them about it, and the said sure, we'll make sure we do that for you next time. Well, next time came, and guess what, it seems that I become the invisible man. I was sexually assaulted as a kid, and I've just started to deal with it. And when I came out with it, my friends were, we'll always be there, anytime any place.

Guess what, thats changed. In the past few weeks, I've been told by two of my closest friends, that its "hard to talk to me." From one, it was that we've drifted apart and its hard to be close to me." A little while before that, that same person said "I can't deal with you." They came around a little why, claimed stress, and now, I'm not so sure if it was. Two of my closest friends, when I need their support most, and they don't even look me in the eye when I don't look happy. They avoid me.

Which leads me to believe that people don't want me if I'm not happy. They don't want me when I'm down. After all those times that they said they would always be there, and when I've really started to deal with this, and some powerful emotions and memories have been brought up, and they don't want to be there. They laugh with each other and then tell me later "oh, ya, we noticed you were crying" I've felt so alone ever since I was raped, and I thought I found a few people that made me feel just a little more whole again, and now they are making me feel even more alone. It makes me wonder if they really care.

I was suicidal for a point, and they kept telling me how much it would devastate them if I were gone. And then I realized today, that as one of these people walked by, they didn't even look at me. Then entire day, they said 5 things to me. And once, when I was asking a question about some homework, they barely said anything, and someone else at the very same table, two minutes later asked the very same question, and they were more than happy to help them. If I were gone at this point, I doubt that I would have been missed by them, or that my being gone would have had an impact on their lives.I'm glad that I'm here today, but it is a wonderful feeling when you see that what some of your closest friends said to you might have been a total lie.

I've got a lot of issues that I have to deal with, and I understand if people are distanced, but it hurts more than hell to have that happen simply because of something someone did to you, and that you had no control over. And now your friends are telling you all these things that seem to be slowly leading to the demise of some very good friendships.

I was even told by one of these people that "You aren't trying to get better" even after getting into therapy, because I had one, ONE, bad night. And I'm slowly getting better, and then they punch me in the stomach like this, making me feel as if I matter less to them. Less than I once did. I've asked them about this, and they go no no, we still care for you just as much, but then their actions tell me different. There was another day when I was in a bad place and my friend gave me this look, and then went back to staring at an iPod.

They've made it quite clear to me that they don't want to talk to me about this, or hear about it. I need to talk about it when I'm in a bad place, and now I have no one. And here I am spilling out my guts to people who probably care less than my friends, and who wouldn't know if i were gone, and who can't give me that hug I need. Thats what I thought my friends were for...

Mouse Posted: Wed Mar 16 20:03:17 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I'm sorry. I'm sorry people can be jerks and I'm sorry I'm not able to be there. I do care, perhaps I have no reason or right to, but I do.
I wish I could give you that hug you need.
*thought hug*

Silentmind Posted: Wed Mar 16 20:07:53 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Thought hugs work too.

Silentmind Posted: Wed Mar 16 20:13:33 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  And I just found out that one of my friends assumes that since I'm in therapy, hugs don't help me. Thats its better to ignore me. But then again, its me, not them.

innocenceNonus Posted: Wed Mar 16 20:13:37 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Silentmind said:
>Which leads me to believe that people don't want me if I'm not happy.

Well, generally people don't like being around sad people. That's not a slam against you; it's fairly true. A good reason why not is that the emotion of sadness is fairly easy to transfer and some people would rather isolate one person and let them feel alone than have to share pain and sadness as well. Another reason why some people don't like dealing with sad people is that THAT person's sadness may be a reflection. Some people might not be able to handle the sadness you represent for them because they recognize it too much in themselves.

>now they are making me feel even more alone.

I know what you mean... There are some days when I get completely ignored by people who are supposed to be my friends, and I can't really do anything. I can't demand they talk to me, and I'm usually ignored by friends I only USED to be close with... It is a sad feeling, to feel so alone...

It's like being in a room full of people who you know by name, who know you by name, and not REALLY knowing anyone.

>it is a wonderful feeling when you see that what some of your closest friends said to you might have been a total lie.

I don't think it was a total lie. I think they meant it when they said it, but now that the time has come for them to act, they might not be so willing. It's like when all those youths sign up for war, get to the battle line, and chicken out.

I understand what it's like to be ignored though... It's been happening to me a lot lately. And it's not that I'm annoying or obnoxious... It's just that no one wants to talk to me, and I don't really have anything to say to them.

It used to bother me a lot, the whole getting ignored business, but today I found that it didn't bother me as much. It still makes me sad, but what can I do? If they don't want to talk to me, that's okay. I've got a lot of thoughts I need to sort through, and one never has too much time to define oneself.

>I need to talk about it when I'm in a bad place, and now I have no one. And here I am spilling out my guts to people who probably care less than my friends, and who wouldn't know if i were gone, and who can't give me that hug I need. Thats what I thought my friends were for...

I say spill it on GT. Heaven knows I've spilled my guts more often online than I have in real life... Writing's easier for me anyway. Plus, I don't really know anyone I trust enough to give ALL my secrets to. And as for us not knowing if you died, I admit that we wouldn't. But if I found out, I'd be sad.

Mouse Posted: Wed Mar 16 20:38:05 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  It made me so angry, struggling and wondering where all those caring faces with their offers of help went. I'm still trying to learn not to accept peoples word as anything but good intentions.
I hate promises.

addi Posted: Wed Mar 16 21:09:30 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Having a caring friend there in person is the best thing. There's no substitute for that, and none of us here can help in that area. But I think it's a good thing that you expressed your real feelings here and opened up. There are people here that maybe could care less, and there are several people here that really do care. I know that for a fact.
I can't offer any real help to you, Silentmind, and that's frustrating. All i can do is hope that you don't give up and keep a flicker of hope alive that things will improve for you. Also keep the communication open here. Someone that has gone through something similar may be able to shed some light on your situation (much better than I).

Silentmind Posted: Wed Mar 16 21:36:35 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  The caring friends I have, are either pissed off at me, or don't want to deal with me.

kurohyou Posted: Wed Mar 16 22:09:41 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  My appologies, this is not in any coherent order, its just some random thoughts which I felt I should share....

I've found that in my experiences, that you will see a lot more support at the begining of a situation. This could be for a number of reasons ranging from a sincere desire to help and be supportive, to simply wanting to appear to be the good friend, to the "newness" of a situation and the drama that accompanies its begining. The sincerity with which people support you will come out at the situation progresses.

Your statement about people only wanting to you when you are happy has more to do with them than it does you. Reality is a bitch sometimes. We all have to face things which are not pleasant, and face things which will have long term effects on who we are as people and how we view the world.

My guess is that once the reality of what happened to you set in that was when they started to withdrawl. Its not because of you, its because of the fear that they carry. Its because the events in your life represent a hard part of reality which no one should ever have to deal with but is an unforchunate part of the world we live in. The problem is not you, its them.

This is when the character of those who call themselves friends comes out. Martin Luther King Jr. once said "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in times of comfort and convienience, but where he stands in times of challenge and controversy."

Its easy to be friends with someone when the sailing is smooth and things are well. When the world you live in makes sense and you can just be. As I said before, reality is a bitch sometimes.

True friendship is tested during times like this and those who are worthy friends will show themselves. I have gone through a lot of "friends" in my lifetime, albiet a short one thus far. Very few have stood by me through all the hard times I have faced, and sadly, I have not stood by all who considered me a friend when they needed me the most. Humans are strong yet frail creatures. I have had only one person who stood by me through everything, I carry him now in my memory...

Try to be patient with your friends, but be more patient with yourself. That is where your focus should be. Now, is the time for you to be selfish. Now you need to focus on you, what its going to take for you to start feeling like yourself again, and what its going to take for you to get back to the place where you want to be.

Your friends need to deal with what happened to you as well, it has changed the way that they see the world as well, though not on the same level. Be patient with them, but more patient with yourself. Their dealing with this is up to them, let it be up to them.

Having never experienced anything like this, these words may sound exceedingly hollow and meaningless, but perhaps their truth is hidden somewhere in my rank inability to convey what I'm trying to say.

Take strength and pride in the fact that you are dealing with this, fighting it if you will. That you will not let the events of your life dictate its outcome, and that you will overcome what has happened. Don't listen to anyone who says you are not making progress. You are taking the steps to take back your life. And you will succeed. I have a sense about this.

I know what it is like to feel alone. To feel that no one understands you, and you're adrift in your own suffering. Its a brutal place to be. But it won't last.

The other day I read a buddhist parable about a storm. The greatest storm, no matter how menacing, cannot rage forever, it will blow itself out and there willl again be balance. Our lives naturally seek balance, there will be times when we feel lonely, and there will be times when we question what we have done to have the number of friends that we have. All life is in flux and as someones mother said, this too shall pass.

But know this, even if the rest of this rant puts you off and makes you think I'm a raving nut job...

You are not alone....

No one is alone, whether you come here to talk, find a friend who is worth their own weight, or seek out new avenues of expression and communication, you are not alone.

So let it all out, I'm sure there are people here who are better with advise and mastery of this language that I, but there will always be someone here to listen and be supportive.

I hope you picked up on what I was trying to say, my words were not cooperating with me when I sat down to write this.

For what its worth...

ifihadahif Posted: Wed Mar 16 22:11:58 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  If you hang around things will always get better, that's just life.
Addie and I have both lived long enough to attest to this.
Every life has it's peaks and valleys. No one can escape this.
It's how you learn to deal with them that makes you what you are.
When I started posting on GT, My life was at it's lowest point. The company I worked for was going down the tubes, my wife just abandoned me with our two sons and way too much debt, and I was hopelessly addicted to way too many drugs. Of course this didn't happen overnight, but when I realized the hole I had dug for myself, the depression sure hit all at once.
Fortunately, my sons and I had each other to lean on, I got a new job at a better company with a lot more money, said goodbye forever to the drugs, and married the true love of my life.
All of this transpired over the last 2 years.
Of course I know that eventually what goes up must come down, but I'm prepared for that and as long as I recognize it for what it is, I know we'll be able to work thru it and as you learn to do this, the peaks will last longer and the valleys not so long.
It's not rocket science anyone can learn this. You can too. It just takes a little time.

antartica Posted: Wed Mar 16 22:45:55 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  i know that it's not much with onli GT coz as much as we all wish it as in real time, it's not

but we are here for ya...

you hang in there and watever we all here can help. we will...

Silentmind Posted: Wed Mar 16 22:51:13 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
>But know this, even if the rest of this rant puts you off and makes you think I'm a raving nut job...

Not a raving nut job. Help is what it was.

sweet p Posted: Wed Mar 16 23:39:46 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  After everyone else's wise words, I don't know if I can be of much help...but I want to explain something that happened to me, and maybe it will help you understand parts of your own situation a little better...maybe?

In high school, I had a friend who went through a serious depression and a very rough 4 years. I grew up with him and it was very hard for me to see this happening to him.

The point came where I felt like there was nothing I could possibly do for him, to make anything better, and I started to feel really sad and guilty and angry. I felt pretty useless and like a horrible friend. I think at that age, I was barely able to help myself in times of great sadness, and I had no idea what to do when someone close to me went through anything serious. I had no confidence in myself as a person to face an issue as big as my friend's and I really didn't understand what was happening to either of us. The more time I spent with him, the worse I felt about myself and not being able to help him...and somehow, an association formed with these bad feelings and my friend.

I didn't stop caring about him, but when I thought about talking to him or seeing him, all I could think about was how bad it made me feel. He wasn't making me feel bad. I was making myself feel bad.

I eventually talked to a teacher and some family members because I just didn't know what to do and I was suddenly feeling bad feelings towards someone I had always liked...and he had done nothing bad to me, at all. I didn't want to end up hating him and I didn't want to leave him to fend for himself so I had to find a solution. Going to talk to people helped me understand that it wasn't my job to fix him and that all he needed was to know that I was there for him. Seems so simple now, but at the time, it seemed impossible. How are you supposed to "be there" when you don't know what that means....I didn't know what to say in response to a lot of the things he would tell me and I felt like even when I thought he was wrong, I couldn't tell him because it would make him too upset. With support from others, I was able to somewhat support my friend. But the fact that I needed support to do so, made it really difficult for me.

I don't know your friends and for all I know, my story might not be applicable at all. But I think it's possible that they are scared - because your situation is something they have never and don't know how to deal with. They are angry - because they feel like they can't fix you. They are frustrated - because they don't understand everything that you say/do/feel [because they haven't gone through what you're going through].

It is not an excuse to abandon you and it does not explain why they can't just give you a hug, but I think that it is something that happens...something big and messy that can ruin many good things.

Unfortunately, the natural reaction for many people when something becomes too difficult for them to handle, is avoidance. But this does not mean the same thing as just not caring about you, and not wanting to be your friend.

I also know that none of these words will make you feel closer to them or make what they have done go away, but I think it is important to make sure that you understand YOU are NOT a problem and that your friends do not despise you. I also do not want you to think that you chose the most horrible human beings in the world as your friends.

Most importantly, there ARE people here who care. And a bunch of people who would be there to hug you if they could. There are so many perspectives and there is so much experience here, in this little corner of the world, I find it is sometimes better to come here than anywhere else I know.

DanSRose Posted: Thu Mar 17 12:33:05 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  It is hard to believe that I need this medication. I don't quite hate it yet (I have only been told about that stage), but when I tell myself "Take a vacation! What's the harm in 2 days?" and 2 days later I'm panicky, shaky, paranoid, tired, self-hateful, and feel all the other depression symptoms come walking back on through the door, with all their baggage.

FN Posted: Thu Mar 17 13:16:31 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  

Many, many, many moons ago I thought that at least some people around me cared about what I felt like.

I even thought I myself *really* cared about what other people felt like (in a sense of really feeling bad because the other person feels miserable).

That however, was before I told myself to cut the crap.

I've learned that ultimately, big surprise, you can rely on nobody but yourself. And I do mean nobody. Sometimes people make the mistake of thinking there might be a chance that there *are* people out there who do care, but rest assured, they don't, they either say they do because they don't want people to think they're jerks, or they say they do (and think they do), but just carry on with their lives without giving any serious thought about it anyway, which isn't caring in the way they make it come across, it's more like "too bad the coyote didn't catch roadrunner", and who can blame them.

And hey, I'm no exception, I don't *really* care about how other people feel, as long as I'm as happy as I can be under the given circumstances, and it has made me a much happier person.

Having said that, I don't mean that I can't feel sorry for somebody, but that's more in the sense of "if it wouldn't make any difference to me, I wouldn't really intend on causing them any harm", instead of "oh, I feel so bad now because my friend or whatever has such a hard life, my life has taken a turn for the worst along with theirs, it's like our pain is intertwined.".

Let's face it, people don't want sad people around them, me neither. That's not a crack at you Silentmind, but that's the way it is.

People grow tired of other people's problems very quickly, if it gets fixed after a talk or 2, most people will "care" enough to listen (which I suspect of being more out of curiosity than anything else by the way), but once you had the same conversation 5 times or 70% of the time you're talking about the same subject, you can expect people to pass you by.

I'm honnest enough to say that I'd probably do the same, which isn't the same as wishing that you'd suffer some more though. It's just indifference.

Feeling good? That's fine, let's go out and have some fun.

Feeling down? What happened?

Feeling down again? Let me know when you feel we better so we can go out and have some fun again.

It's just that everybody has their own problems on their own personal levels, what seems trivial to me is a real shocker to a lot of my friends, and what could be devastating for me wouldn't really bother some others probably, and everybody is too much involved and concerned about their own stuff, they don't have the patience to listen to anybody else's problems.

Is that a bad thing, I don't know, I sure have had to hear some crap for being the way I am, but at least I'm honest.

On a side note: I have no idea of what it would be like to be in a situation like yours Silentmind, the only real option I'd see, as far as I know, is getting some professional help, those people are paid to listen and are perhaps the only ones who can say stuff that really gets you somewhere.

breeze Posted: Thu Mar 17 14:58:10 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Hmm sad but I think I have to agree with Chris here. Iíve learned that people donít really like sad people around, as I was going through some tough period in my lifeÖ Many people who I thought were my friends, at the beginning were very supportive and caring, but I started noticing after some time that they were getting tired of it. Thereís so much one can say hearing the same problem over and over again, so at some point they donít know what to say anymoreÖ

I need to give credit to some of my friends though, who tried to cheer me up and literally forced me to go out and get over it. They told me to suck it up, stop feeling sorry for myself, because they were tired of seeing me like that all the time, because it made them feel like crap too.. It was harsh; I thought they didnít understand how deep it was and how bad I feltÖ But, hey, at least they were honest and I think they were right. It was a reality check for me, and I realized that it was too much about me and how crappy I felt, that I never thought that seeing me sad, makes them sad too.

We all are compassionate and sensitive when our friends have problems. A good friend will be there for you, share your pain and tears. But thereís so much pain we can share, and I mean seriously, people do prefer to have some fun on their free time and not feel crappy and sad. It doesnít mean they donít care about you, itís just human nature. When a time like this comes, some people back out and stay away from your life. They give you some ďspaceĒ and time to get over it on your own. They donít want to feel bad, so they try to isolate themselves from this person. While others, the most honest ones will tell you to suck it up and get over it; they will be there for you, but not to cry with you, but by giving you a reality check and forcing you to move on.

Maybe itís the case with your friends too. It makes them sad to see you that way, but they donít know what to do to help you. Maybe you should just talk to them. Tell them that you realize that it they must feel like crap too, when youíre all down all the time. But tell them that you will get over it and you need them to be there for you, just to know that you can lean on them. Not cry with you, but fight with you and help you to forget and start a new life. Try to spend more time with them, even if you donít feel like having fun. It might help you take your mind off some things and get closer again with your friends. Friendship takes some effort on both sides.

Also, if you have time read "Impatience of The Heart" by Stephan Zweig. I think itís one of the best books ever, and youíll be able to get some interesting ideas on why people in situations like that, act the way they do.

addi Posted: Thu Mar 17 15:24:23 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Acquaintances and friends "lite" will abandon you when your going thru rough stretches. Real friends will be there for you even when you're not particulary fun to be around. It separates the wheat from the chaff. A real close friend can cry with you sometimes. I true friend may also tell you at the right time to "suck it up and stop feeling sorry for yourself" when it's appropriate, but they will continue to be there through thick and thin, even when it isn't easy to be around you. Being a true friend is rare and special exactly because they aren't just there for the good times and laughter. They're with you through thick and thin.

FN Posted: Thu Mar 17 15:37:34 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I'm the kind of friend that says "stop feeling sorry for yourself, you pussy" quite often.

Experience learns that saying that a few times can do the job, most of the time. I do realise however that it isn't a solution to some problems/situations.

But it is to most.

Ahriman Posted: Thu Mar 17 20:46:03 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I find all the comfort I need in logically thinking through things for long periods of time. I don't trust people with my secrets. Hence the reason everybody comes to me with their problems because I tell no one. Find peace in your mind. It may take a while, but you have all the answers in there.

iggy Posted: Fri Mar 18 02:21:54 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  i agree with most people here, especially christophe and addison.

i think i'm guilty of many things said here, especially getting stuck in a miserable rut for the longest time.

which is why i become more and more of a recluse these days.

no point in being a party pooper.

sometimes, u can't expect your friends to pull u up all the time.

hell, i know that a hug works wonders all the time. but there's so much that will stretch. and sooner or later, u'll be craving for more and more moral support.

it's hard to deal with a lot of pressures in our lives, and when we do take the effort to do something abt it, sometimes people do not see and start to say many things when they do not see the full picture.

and they judge you for the times that you fall, but not the times that you pick yourself up.


hope this helps.

misszero Posted: Fri Mar 18 04:48:11 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  chan said:

>no point in being a party pooper.

every party needs a pooper.

some of what you're saying, Silent, i can relate to. not the specifics of your situation, but the relationship aspects, for sure. i've kind of resigned myself to reminding myself struggle makes one strong. i hope you come okay.


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