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Stupid repressive Catholics
ifihadahif Posted: Wed May 4 22:10:53 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization
by Thomas E. Woods, Jr.

Today is the official release date for my new book, How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization. From the role of the monks (they did much more than just copy manuscripts) to art and architecture, from the university to Western law, from science to charitable work, from international law to economics, the book delves into just how indebted we are as a civilization to the Catholic Church, whether we realize it or not.

By far the book’s longest chapter is "The Church and Science." We have all heard a great deal about the Church’s alleged hostility toward science. What most people fail to realize is that historians of science have spent the past half-century drastically revising this conventional wisdom, arguing that the Church’s role in the development of Western science was far more salutary than previously thought. I am speaking not about Catholic apologists but about serious and important scholars of the history of science such as J.L. Heilbron, A.C. Crombie, David Lindberg, Edward Grant, and Thomas Goldstein.

It is all very well to point out that important scientists, like Louis Pasteur, have been Catholic. More revealing is how many priests have distinguished themselves in the sciences. It turns out, for instance, that the first person to measure the rate of acceleration of a freely falling body was Fr. Giambattista Riccioli. The man who has been called the father of Egyptology was Fr. Athanasius Kircher (also called "master of a hundred arts" for the breadth of his knowledge). Fr. Roger Boscovich, who has been described as "the greatest genius that Yugoslavia ever produced," has often been called the father of modern atomic theory.

In the sciences it was the Jesuits in particular who distinguished themselves; some 35 craters on the moon, in fact, are named after Jesuit scientists and mathematicians.

By the eighteenth century, the Jesuits

had contributed to the development of pendulum clocks, pantographs, barometers, reflecting telescopes and microscopes, to scientific fields as various as magnetism, optics and electricity. They observed, in some cases before anyone else, the colored bands on Jupiter’s surface, the Andromeda nebula and Saturn’s rings. They theorized about the circulation of the blood (independently of Harvey), the theoretical possibility of flight, the way the moon effected the tides, and the wave-like nature of light. Star maps of the southern hemisphere, symbolic logic, flood-control measures on the Po and Adige rivers, introducing plus and minus signs into Italian mathematics – all were typical Jesuit achievements, and scientists as influential as Fermat, Huygens, Leibniz and Newton were not alone in counting Jesuits among their most prized correspondents [Jonathan Wright, The Jesuits, 2004, p. 189].

Seismology, the study of earthquakes, has been so dominated by Jesuits that it has become known as "the Jesuit science." It was a Jesuit, Fr. J.B. Macelwane, who wrote Introduction to Theoretical Seismology, the first seismology textbook in America, in 1936. To this day, the American Geophysical Union, which Fr. Macelwane once headed, gives an annual medal named after this brilliant priest to a promising young geophysicist.

The Jesuits were also the first to introduce Western science into such far-off places as China and India. In seventeenth-century China in particular, Jesuits introduced a substantial body of scientific knowledge and a vast array of mental tools for understanding the physical universe, including the Euclidean geometry that made planetary motion comprehensible. Jesuits made important contributions to the scientific knowledge and infrastructure of other less developed nations not only in Asia but also in Africa and Central and South America. Beginning in the nineteenth century, these continents saw the opening of Jesuit observatories that studied such fields as astronomy, geomagnetism, meteorology, seismology, and solar physics. Such observatories provided these places with accurate time keeping, weather forecasts (particularly important in the cases of hurricanes and typhoons), earthquake risk assessments, and cartography. In Central and South America the Jesuits worked primarily in meteorology and seismology, essentially laying the foundations of those disciplines there. The scientific development of these countries, ranging from Ecuador to Lebanon to the Philippines, is indebted to Jesuit efforts.

The Galileo case is often cited as evidence of Catholic hostility toward science, and How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization accordingly takes a closer look at the Galileo matter. For now, just one little-known fact: Catholic cathedrals in Bologna, Florence, Paris, and Rome were constructed to function as solar observatories. No more precise instruments for observing the sun’s apparent motion could be found anywhere in the world. When Johannes Kepler posited that planetary orbits were elliptical rather than circular, Catholic astronomer Giovanni Cassini verified Kepler’s position through observations he made in the Basilica of San Petronio in the heart of the Papal States. Cassini, incidentally, was a student of Fr. Riccioli and Fr. Francesco Grimaldi, the great astronomer who also discovered the diffraction of light, and even gave the phenomenon its name.

I’ve tried to fill the book with little-known facts like these.

To say that the Church played a positive role in the development of science has now become absolutely mainstream, even if this new consensus has not yet managed to trickle down to the general public. In fact, Stanley Jaki, over the course of an extraordinary scholarly career, has developed a compelling argument that in fact it was important aspects of the Christian worldview that accounted for why it was in the West that science enjoyed the success it did as a self-sustaining enterprise. Non-Christian cultures did not possess the same philosophical tools, and in fact were burdened by conceptual frameworks that hindered the development of science. Jaki extends this thesis to seven great cultures: Arabic, Babylonian, Chinese, Egyptian, Greek, Hindu, and Maya. In these cultures, Jaki explains, science suffered a "stillbirth." My book gives ample attention to Jaki’s work.

Economic thought is another area in which more and more scholars have begun to acknowledge the previously overlooked role of Catholic thinkers. Joseph Schumpeter, one of the great economists of the twentieth century, paid tribute to the overlooked contributions of the late Scholastics – mainly sixteenth- and seventeenth-century Spanish theologians – in his magisterial History of Economic Analysis (1954). "[I]t is they," he wrote, "who come nearer than does any other group to having been the ‘founders’ of scientific economics." In devoting scholarly attention to this unfortunately neglected chapter in the history of economic thought, Schumpeter would be joined by other accomplished scholars over the course of the twentieth century, including Professors Raymond de Roover, Marjorie Grice-Hutchinson, and Alejandro Chafuen.

The Church also played an indispensable role in another essential development in Western civilization: the creation of the university. The university was an utterly new phenomenon in European history. Nothing like it had existed in ancient Greece or Rome. The institution that we recognize today, with its faculties, courses of study, examinations, and degrees, as well as the familiar distinction between undergraduate and graduate study, come to us directly from the medieval world. And it is no surprise that the Church should have done so much to foster the nascent university system, since the Church, according to historian Lowrie Daly, "was the only institution in Europe that showed consistent interest in the preservation and cultivation of knowledge."

The popes and other churchmen ranked the universities among the great jewels of Christian civilization. It was typical to hear the University of Paris described as the "new Athens" – a designation that calls to mind the ambitions of the great Alcuin from the Carolingian period of several centuries earlier, who sought through his own educational efforts to establish a new Athens in the kingdom of the Franks. Pope Innocent IV (1243–54) described the universities as "rivers of science which water and make fertile the soil of the universal Church," and Pope Alexander IV (1254–61) called them "lanterns shining in the house of God." And the popes deserved no small share of the credit for the growth and success of the university system. "Thanks to the repeated intervention of the papacy," writes historian Henri Daniel-Rops, "higher education was enabled to extend its boundaries; the Church, in fact, was the matrix that produced the university, the nest whence it took flight."

As a matter of fact, among the most important medieval contributions to modern science was the essentially free inquiry of the university system, where scholars could debate and discuss propositions, and in which the utility of human reason was taken for granted. Contrary to the grossly inaccurate picture of the Middle Ages that passes for common knowledge today, medieval intellectual life made indispensable contributions to Western civilization. In The Beginnings of Western Science (1992), David Lindberg writes:

[I]t must be emphatically stated that within this educational system the medieval master had a great deal of freedom. The stereotype of the Middle Ages pictures the professor as spineless and subservient, a slavish follower of Aristotle and the Church fathers (exactly how one could be a slavish follower of both, the stereotype does not explain), fearful of departing one iota from the demands of authority. There were broad theological limits, of course, but within those limits the medieval master had remarkable freedom of thought and expression; there was almost no doctrine, philosophical or theological, that was not submitted to minute scrutiny and criticism by scholars in the medieval university.

"[S]cholars of the later Middle Ages," concludes Lindberg, "created a broad intellectual tradition, in the absence of which subsequent progress in natural philosophy would have been inconceivable."

Historian of science Edward Grant concurs with this judgment:

What made it possible for Western civilization to develop science and the social sciences in a way that no other civilization had ever done before? The answer, I am convinced, lies in a pervasive and deep-seated spirit of inquiry that was a natural consequence of the emphasis on reason that began in the Middle Ages. With the exception of revealed truths, reason was enthroned in medieval universities as the ultimate arbiter for most intellectual arguments and controversies. It was quite natural for scholars immersed in a university environment to employ reason to probe into subject areas that had not been explored before, as well as to discuss possibilities that had not previously been seriously entertained.

The creation of the university, the commitment to reason and rational argument, and the overall spirit of inquiry that characterized medieval intellectual life amounted to "a gift from the Latin Middle Ages to the modern world…though it is a gift that may never be acknowledged. Perhaps it will always retain the status it has had for the past four centuries as the best-kept secret of Western civilization."




 
Aeon Posted: Thu May 5 00:22:52 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I didn't read the article. Sorry. But I'm not too big on the Catholic Church, mainly because they've been in the disinformation business since the first century. Persecuted for hundreds of years and then when the Catholic church gets power over Rome... they start persecuting. WTF?! Fuck those guys!


 
Posted: Thu May 5 00:39:59 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I'd say the spirit of inquiry/ration argument/commitment to reason more or less arose out of Voltaire and the Enlightenment period; Voltaire was pretty anti-established religion.

Still, the article was a good one.


 
andariel Posted: Thu May 5 01:05:49 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Being raised pagan I tend to think of the catholic church as the root of all evil. I might just have to find this book and get me some enlightenment.


 
Asswipe Posted: Thu May 5 02:25:16 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  holy crap, that read like a 6th grader's history report. Where do you find this shit, hif? And how do you manage to read all of it?

A jesuit did this... a jesuit did that... another jesuit did this... THE CHURCH IS GREAT.

the logical fallacy here would be... well, i forget the name, but it occurs when one takes PART of a WHOLE, examines the PART, and applies the characteristics of a PART to the WHOLE. here, the retarded author cited tons of examples where members of a religious group performed progressive deeds for science, and then concluded that religion has done good deeds for science. now, i stopped reading about 3/4 of the way down as i grew nauseous, but they actually committed the same logical fallacy twice, if you think about it... oh, nevermind.


 
Mesh Posted: Thu May 5 03:06:08 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  exclusion fallacy? Or, I dont know what im talking about, nevermind.


 
Mark Posted: Thu May 5 04:49:32 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  The foundation of our western civilization where made possible by the Roman Empire. And in that Roman Empire there was something that no other civilization ever accomplished… a total working tolerance for all religions (except some Jews and Christians). It’s true, the religions had to be romanized in a way but still… it worked. Only after Constantine became Christian and everybody had to become it as well the Empire collapsed because of riots and invasions. (Please note: there was a link between religion and riots, not between religion and invasions).

That so many scientists where Catholics isn’t really a miracle… you either had to be one or you would have been a heretic and you would have been burnt.

I am not denying that the law here is somewhat based on Christianity, although we are changing that here… for example: being gay isn’t a sin anymore.

I’m skeptical about the university talk. I have some memories about learning that Greece and Rome both had them… perhaps not in the way the where founded in the middle ages, but still… But I could be wrong here.

Anyway… I live in a democratic society today… and even though I don’t really like the way it is going I don’t think the church had or has anything to do with democracy. Since all other religions are falls in there opinion I think they would have gone for a totalitarian regime.


 
Mesh Posted: Thu May 5 05:05:24 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Wolffie I hate you. Because I wanted to bring up the Roman Empire.


 
Mesh Posted: Thu May 5 05:05:55 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Oh, and I dont really hate you.


 
Mark Posted: Thu May 5 05:58:11 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  meshuggah said:
>Oh, and I dont really hate you.

lol ok

---

Damn... in my previous post I made one of my worst typos to date... falls should be (of course) false


 
addi Posted: Thu May 5 07:05:49 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:

>now, i stopped reading about 3/4 of the way down as i grew nauseous, but they actually committed the same logical fallacy twice, if you think about it... oh, nevermind.

LOL!
It's like there was a salon discussion in my mouth and asswipe was invited.
If i was bi-sexual Asswipe I'd send you flowers and chocolates. Then again, i might not, cuz you'd tell me the flowers were the wrong color, and the chocolates tasted like shit.

After reading this fucka-wit-my-eyes article I've come to the conclusion that Asswipe must be catholic :)


 
mat_j Posted: Thu May 5 08:46:31 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  andariel said:
>Being raised pagan I tend to think of the catholic church as the root of all evil. I might just have to find this book and get me some enlightenment.

Jesus suffering fuck, a high and mighty pagan! As sorry i am for the widescale catholic persecution of everything but this country used to be a Pagan country and things weren't so fucking rosey under them neither.




 
libra Posted: Thu May 5 10:40:44 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Wolffie said:
>
>
>I’m skeptical about the university talk. I have some memories about learning that Greece and Rome both had them… perhaps not in the way the where founded in the middle ages, but still… But I could be wrong here.
>

Greece and Rome did both have Universities. For example, one at Alexandria with a great library, was burned by the christians in their attempt to rid everything pagan from their world.

Like the M.A. the universities were for the elite, but unlike the middle ages, they offered a broader range of topics. In the MA, one went to university to earn a degree in Theology or Philosophy (which were virtually the same). There was one med school and one law school...but other than the names of the degrees (bachelor's, master's, PhD), there are not too many similarities between today's universities and the MA. In fact, since in the Renaissance we returned to celebrating all things Greek and Roman, there's a good chance the Uni's today are more like the ancient universities.


 
andariel Posted: Thu May 5 13:24:34 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  >Jesus suffering fuck, a high and mighty pagan! As sorry i am for the widescale catholic persecution of everything but this country used to be a Pagan country and things weren't so fucking rosey under them neither.
>
Did I say ANYTHING about my religion being great? Doing great things? Being better and/or holier than thou?



 
Mark Posted: Thu May 5 14:51:49 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  libra said:
>Greece and Rome did both have Universities.

I knew I was right :p


 
Asswipe Posted: Thu May 5 16:33:47 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>Asswipe said:
>
>>now, i stopped reading about 3/4 of the way down as i grew nauseous, but they actually committed the same logical fallacy twice, if you think about it... oh, nevermind.
>
>LOL!
>It's like there was a salon discussion in my mouth and asswipe was invited.

i'm a bit lost here, did you say a "salon discussion in my mouth", and I'm invited? i'm not quite sure what to make of this

>If i was bi-sexual Asswipe I'd send you flowers and chocolates. Then again, i might not, cuz you'd tell me the flowers were the wrong color, and the chocolates tasted like shit.

yeah, yeah, fuck your flowers.

>
>After reading this fucka-wit-my-eyes article I've come to the conclusion that Asswipe must be catholic :)

hoho


 
Asswipe Posted: Thu May 5 16:35:07 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  libra said:
>Wolffie said:
>>
>>
>>I’m skeptical about the university talk. I have some memories about learning that Greece and Rome both had them… perhaps not in the way the where founded in the middle ages, but still… But I could be wrong here.
>>
>
>Greece and Rome did both have Universities. For example, one at Alexandria with a great library, was burned by the christians in their attempt to rid everything pagan from their world.
>
>Like the M.A. the universities were for the elite, but unlike the middle ages, they offered a broader range of topics. In the MA, one went to university to earn a degree in Theology or Philosophy (which were virtually the same). There was one med school and one law school...but other than the names of the degrees (bachelor's, master's, PhD), there are not too many similarities between today's universities and the MA. In fact, since in the Renaissance we returned to celebrating all things Greek and Roman, there's a good chance the Uni's today are more like the ancient universities.

you would make a freakin' awesome museum tour guide.


 
addi Posted: Thu May 5 16:52:24 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:

>i'm a bit lost here, did you say a "salon discussion in my mouth", and I'm invited? i'm not quite sure what to make of this

LOL!
it was an indirect compliment to your logical fallacy response. I swear there was nothing sexual about it!
: )

>yeah, yeah, fuck your flowers.

purple posies? You'd like those wouldn't you?



 
Asswipe Posted: Thu May 5 18:29:55 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>
>purple posies? You'd like those wouldn't you?
>

shit, mix in some pink and you've won my panties, or at least a scent of my subtle, yet masculine, Eddie Bauer Adventurer cologne.

The Adventure's waiting, did you bring your hiking boots?

note to the readers: i'm stoned.


 
Silentmind Posted: Thu May 5 19:54:44 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  This again, is some pretty skewed shit. Sure, some catholics did good things. But the church...no. They were repressive in the liberal ideas of the day. The whole idea behind our modern gov'ts is secularism and rationalism. The reason for this was the extremely repressive nature of the Catholic church. The article, of course, fails to mention that the Catholic church tried to keep the lower classes illiterate, as to keep them loyal. They were heavy handed in gov't affairs. This deals with the specifics of a few people, and a few institutions that the church implimented for the furthering of church goals, which were not in the best intrests of the general public, the furthering of liberal rights. ie, universal suffrage, basic human rights ect. The institutions were around long before the church ever used them. This article almost made me vomit.


 
addi Posted: Thu May 5 19:55:34 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:
>addi said:

>note to the readers: i'm stoned.

lol
note to Asswipe: Expand my avatar pic while you're stoned and just stare at it for ten minutes. Things will move.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu May 5 23:13:24 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Silentmind said:
>This again, is some pretty skewed shit. Sure, some catholics did good things. But the church...no. They were repressive in the liberal ideas of the day. The whole idea behind our modern gov'ts is secularism and rationalism. The reason for this was the extremely repressive nature of the Catholic church. The article, of course, fails to mention that the Catholic church tried to keep the lower classes illiterate, as to keep them loyal. They were heavy handed in gov't affairs. This deals with the specifics of a few people, and a few institutions that the church implimented for the furthering of church goals, which were not in the best intrests of the general public, the furthering of liberal rights. ie, universal suffrage, basic human rights ect. The institutions were around long before the church ever used them. This article almost made me vomit.
>
Perhaps you would like to read the book and refute what he has to say.
If I read secular rationalism one more time, I'm going to vomit.
Of course the article only dealt with a few topics and omitted some others, if you noticed it was not an essay, it was merely capsulized version of one chapter of a book.


 
addi Posted: Fri May 6 07:15:19 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>If I read secular rationalism one more time, I'm going to vomit.

Amen to that! I only read sacred irrationalism myself

: )


 
mat_j Posted: Sun May 8 08:45:25 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  andariel said:
>>Jesus suffering fuck, a high and mighty pagan! As sorry i am for the widescale catholic persecution of everything but this country used to be a Pagan country and things weren't so fucking rosey under them neither.
>>
>Did I say ANYTHING about my religion being great? Doing great things? Being better and/or holier than thou?
>

Apologies, i just hoped you were going to cast a spell on me or something, I'm going for the world record of most hexed by Pagans and Wiccans.... Christ my right arm just fell off, well i'll be damned.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun May 8 09:15:39 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  mat_j said:
my right arm just fell off, well i'll be damned.
>
God I hate when that happens, it makes masturbating in the shower all the more difficult !


 



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