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Most American kids are spoiled
Merqri Posted: Thu Jun 30 14:42:59 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Coming from a very poor corrupt country(P.I.).I think most of American kids are spoiled. They complain too much. They want too much. Too many people wanna conquer each other. I think expecially TV(media) has brainwashed most of them. A whole lot of them are ignorant. America isnt that great. I also think a lot of Americans are idiots. But the rest and a few of yall are kool. If I offended you then this here was meant for you. Because its the blatant truth.


 
breeze Posted: Thu Jun 30 15:18:20 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Welcome aboard. Where are you from? Sounds like you might be new in the states, coz this is usually how people feel about it during the first year or two.. I might be wrong though.

When I first came here I kinda thought along the same lines, because you keep comparing them to your culture and people back home. Usually people who come here have this certain image about America, that was created by Hollywood and TV and when you actually see it, people realize that in reality it’s very different. They get disappointed; get homesick, people around you come off as arrogant and ignorant, especially if your own culture is very different from this one.

But the longer you stay here the better you understand these people and you realize than even though they might be lacking some knowledge about certain things, say not know where your country is or that it even exists, they have other knowledge and qualities that can be admired. It just takes some time to realize this and time to get used to them.

As about American kids, they are just raised in a different way. Competition, independence, speaking up one's mind are key here. They are given much more freedom than in other countries and it has it's own pluses and minuses, I think.


 
addi Posted: Thu Jun 30 15:21:26 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Ouch!
Good thing I am origonally from Krapitscoldstan...
otherwise I'd be offended
: )


and there is truth in what you say, Grasshopper, but you need to come and live here and travel around before you condemn the majority of us. We have many faults, and we have many good points as well.
Just like the people in your country, eh?


 
Merqri Posted: Thu Jun 30 17:15:58 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Lol. nah, I just wanted to bash America cuz of the bullshit theyve been doing to other countries and when the karma laws comes back around to the U.S.A. its not going to be pretty.

Breeze-I understand that. Ive been living in the U.S. for a decade. What I said about Americans is the truth from my experience. Im not going to lie and say that I hate their lifestyle but said American freedom is overrated and Americans are NOT really free.

United States is not a country. Its a corporate.


 
addi Posted: Thu Jun 30 17:36:12 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Merqri,
if you read any of my political posts you'll see that I can be pretty hard on America too..and I am a native.
I think the points you make are valid, but to me it's more of a condemnation of humans, or human nature, than specifically Americans.
You take all of us spoiled, greedy, corrupt Americans and put us in Africa, and then replace us with natives from any country, I don't care if it's from the poorest nation in the world, and let them live with our economy, our choices, our wealth, etc.., and within two generations I will show you another American culture generating.

I'm not trying to get us off the hook for some of the terrible policies we've had... or exempt us from responsibility for who we are and what we've become. I just see it more as who "man" is, and not strictly negative traits particular to only us Americans.

*and if you feel the need to point out our considerable faults, it's only fair to remember that we have also helped many people across the world as well in our short history.
peace


 
DanSRose Posted: Thu Jun 30 18:21:42 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Where in the States are you talking about? Up and down and backforth across the country.
It depends on where you go. Just like everywhere you go, people are different.
It's like the saying, "Paris would be great, if it weren't for the French."


 
Merqri Posted: Thu Jun 30 18:58:33 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>Merqri,
>if you read any of my political posts you'll see that I can be pretty hard on America too..and I am a native.
>I think the points you make are valid, but to me it's more of a condemnation of humans, or human nature, than specifically Americans.
>You take all of us spoiled, greedy, corrupt Americans and put us in Africa, and then replace us with natives from any country, I don't care if it's from the poorest nation in the world, and let them live with our economy, our choices, our wealth, etc.., and within two generations I will show you another American culture generating.
>
>I'm not trying to get us off the hook for some of the terrible policies we've had... or exempt us from responsibility for who we are and what we've become. I just see it more as who "man" is, and not strictly negative traits particular to only us Americans.
>
>*and if you feel the need to point out our considerable faults, it's only fair to remember that we have also helped many people across the world as well in our short history.
>peace

You are right. Its not just Americans. But right now I am mainly mad at the American leaders for lying to the world.

Dan SRose...I see this everywhere in America. From Cali to Jersey.


 
FN Posted: Thu Jun 30 19:19:15 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I have my own views on "America", with a lot of shades of grey.

My opinions are based on the people here, the stuff I see on the news, and the stuff I read.

What strikes me, when reading stuff on the internet for example, originating from America, is indeed what could be seen as ignorant/arrogant, and naive. I guess it depends on how you look at it.

I read something somewhere today, which I thought fits what non-americans think of americans in general; there are 2 ways to be stupid: stupid because of a lack of knowledge, and stupid for not suspecting anything. A lot of people feel that america is an unhealthy mix of both. Wether or not I agree is something else.

"America" seems to think they invented both democracy and freedom and that they're the only country who has both, while it couldn't be farther from the truth, and this is indeed something that irritates me too.

I have my doubts about the american democracy, as I have my doubts on the "freedom".

Competition, independence and speaking up are just as important here, if not more, and I'm guessing in any country. Yet a lot of Americans act like they invented hot water and sliced bread, while on their own they probably wouldn't be able to give you the general location of India or Switserland (although this does not apply to most people I've met here, hence the shades of grey, but sadly enough, for every person here there are 100-1000 ignorant americans on the internet.)

Also, what the world gets to see of america is either the series, always with dumb characters in them, or the american leaders on the news, not coming across too bright either according to for example Belgian standards, I don't know how other people are percieving it, but given the international distaste for america at the moment, I'm guessing Belgium is not alone in this.

And over the past few years that general attitude towards america hasn't improved.

I read an interview with a former minister last week, saying something along the lines of "when I was young america was seen as the land of opportunity, now most people wouldn't touch it with a stick if you paid them to". A bit rough perhaps, but that seems to be what I see and hear around me, and it is a sad evolution.


 
kurohyou Posted: Thu Jun 30 19:32:44 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Merqri said:
>Coming from a very poor corrupt country(P.I.)

Greetings, where are you orginally from?

>.I think most of American kids are spoiled. They complain too much. They want too much. Too many people wanna conquer each other.

What do you mean by spoiled just out of curiosity? If they complain that they're hungry, if they complain that they're cold at night because the parents couldn't afford to pay the public service bill does that make them spoiled? If they want to spend time with a father who is in jail for selling drugs, or if they want to walk to school without fear of getting beat up? Does that make them spoiled? Or are you referring specifically to complaining or wanting material things like more games, more toys, more pokemon cards? Just wondering.

I'd have to say that more recent generations do appear to be more spoiled than the generations before. My kids have luxuries which I never had, and I had luxuries which my father never had. Each generation is going to be different, and with the way our society is built, aimed for constantly improving our way of life, life would seem easier for younger generations, and thus "spoiling" them to an extent.

I thankfully have never had to live through a world war like my grandparents did, I never had to live through a depression as they did. I grew up with seven-elevans on the corner and MTV. They grew up with the milk man delivering milk to your house every day and $0.10 movies. In many ways I was spoiled when compared to the lives my grandparents lived. But we lived during two different time periods.

>I think expecially TV(media) has brainwashed most of them.

TV is a horrendously pervasive medium for socail transmission. And unforchunatly it has gotten out of control to an extent. Though not all TV is bad. My kids have learned their Alphebet, how to read, and more spanish than I know from Seseame Street. There is a lot of negative aspects of TV, but there are a number of positive ones as well. Television has given us an opportunity to look into the lives of the people around us. To bring us images from worlds away, images we may never have seen otherwise. yes its very easy to "brainwash," but as with anything, it has to be kept in balance.

>America isn't that great.

I hear this every once in a while and I wonder somethings. I have the disadvantage of being born here. So I lack an outside view of my homeland. I don't know what it is to be an outsider looking it. Yet there are a number of people from other countries who share this opinion. If its not that great, then why are they here? I can understand the grass is greener on the other side issue, but if once you got here it wasn't what you thought it would be, would you not go back to where you were from? Or is it a matter of America, while its not that great, is better than where these people came from?

I can understand where Breeze comes from, that once the excitement and newness wears off and you see it for what it's worth, I'm sure there is some shock when that comes through. Kinda like the first time you realized your parents were people, just like everyone else, the loss of an illusion if you will.

I'm just curious...

But the rest and a few of yall are kool. If I offended you then this here was meant for you. Because its the blatant truth.

Welcome to the forum and enjoy your stay...


For what it's worth...


 
DanSRose Posted: Thu Jun 30 21:05:32 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  About this coming generation and my own, I've met them. There are the good and there the bad. Same as every other. Mine and my sister's are considerably smarter (some are more aware), especially the Good ones, and know the potential they have. More importantly, the Good ones want to use it. Even the ones want to chase the Great Dollar, have had the idea of charity ingrained into their brains that it is second nature to them, plus some have found that they like it. That they can get really rich whle helping people, like becoming doctors. Or they discover the Arts follow that.

I don't like generalizations. They are too vague and live out the glorious squishy details, where everything intersting lives.


 
Merqri Posted: Thu Jun 30 21:13:36 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Im from the Philippines.

I say Americans are spoiled because some Americans complain about; being poor when theyre not. Because there is a lot of oppoturnities here in the U.S. compared to other countries. 4 example, in the Philippines a lot of people dont have a jobs and over here(US)- people complain about why they hate their work and yadiyadiyah. bullshit.
I know a lot of people that would rather die poor(in America) rather than being poor in my country. Because in America you can be obese and poor. On the flipside, well you know where Im going with that.

TV in America and any other forms of journalisms is filtered. So most of the content we see in TV is not real. A whole lotta of news is BULSHHT.

I said that its not that great because ITS NOT THAT GREAT. And maybe because its not my homeland. You prolly will never understand unless you pack yor shit up and live in Iraq




 
addi Posted: Thu Jun 30 21:38:14 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Merqri said:

>But right now I am mainly mad at the American leaders for lying to the world.

No arguement with you there

I haven't walked a step in your shoes so I have no business telling you how to feel. Just a suggestion as long as you're "stuck" here that you keep open to the positive, and don't throw the american baby out with the bathwater...there are still a lot of wonderful, intelligent, hard working, and caring people here....many right here on GT : )


 
cookies&cream Posted: Thu Jun 30 21:55:34 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  FYI: i know a great deal of obese people who are not poor. you cannot make generalizations based on stereotypes that were created by critics worldwide. sure being obese isn't healthy. sure being a stick isn't healthy either. being rich is something that each man achieves for himself. the ones that complain of being poor when they're not were probably born wealthy and ARE spoiled, but every person is different. not every wealthy-born child in america is going to be a snot-nosed brat who only cares about money. i was born in the city, and could have had more things growing up. but at the age of 6/7 we moved out of town to the sticks. i have worked and worked my childhood & teenage years away, and am none the richer for it. but you know what--it's not about money. it's not about bodyweight. if you want to diss america because you've only met a certain kind of person, then go ahead. but i think that if you're going to try to tell the americans themselves that they're ignorant, then you need to make sure you've seen both sides of the story, you need to meet people who have different attitudes about things like power and money. everyone around the world could live like americans do. all they need is some motivation & determination (not that everyone else doesn't have any, i wouldn't know i've not left the states) and the opportunities through which they can achieve, and they will.

for every bad trait that anyone has, there is a good one. for every fault of a president, there is a credit. nothing can exist without a balance. where there is good, there must be evil. that's why "perfection" cannot be. if you came to america expecting perfection, you should have known better in the first place. some of us may not know what happens in other countries, or another's traditions or laws. who knows, there may be a country with a more harmonious government than ours. what i'm saying is, america is not all bad, and america is not all good. you, my friend, have only seen what you take to be the bad side. you must see the good side before you can make an accurate judgement of our country.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Jun 30 21:56:35 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Merqri said:
>I said that its not that great because ITS NOT THAT GREAT. And maybe because its not my homeland. You prolly will never understand unless you pack yor shit up and live in Iraq
>
Not that great compared to what ??
The Phillipines ?
You just said a lot of people you know would rather die poor in America than be poor in your country.
America is a great country.
That doesn't mean you will be happy here.
You find happiness within yourself not where you live.
Based on your limited postings here, I would say your gonna have trouble finding happiness because you seem to be a naysayer. You bash America because you just want to bitch about something.
Exactly which lies are you talking about that they've told the world ?
Are they different from the ones told by Blair, Chirac, Shroeder, or Putin ?
Why aren't you mad at them ?
Why aren't you mad the Palestinians for the homicide bombers?
Why aren't you mad at the insurgents in your own country ?
Why aren't you mad about the mass graves we keep finding in Iraq ?
You single out America for what reason ?


 
addi Posted: Thu Jun 30 22:20:00 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I knew hiffy mcnasty was gonna be in attack mode
: )


*goodnight sweet dingaporians, amorous aussies, crispy canadians, beligerant belgians and ugly americans. I'm off to bed and dreams about plinkers and winning wimbledon next year


 
Zacq Posted: Thu Jun 30 22:44:50 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Well I haven't read the whole thread but..

My Two Cents:
(someone's probably already said this) It's meaningless to say all American kids are spoiled. There are large factions of us that hate the media and just want to listen to hippy music and walk through the woods.

And now for my main point:

(yes this is going somewhere) There are a lot of people who complain about the greed of professional athletes in the U.S., because they always seem to be looking to augment multi-million dollar contracts. These people get angry at them because they seem to all be greedy jerks. But what are the odds that only greedy jerks excel at sports? It makes a lot more sense to say that most people would react, in that situation, to try and get the larger contract they know they can get.

Other countries like to complain that Americans are spoiled and uninformed morons, and maybe we/they are. But besides the fact this is a generalization, I don't think it means we're/they're bad people, or that people from other countries would act any differently.

So in conclusion, very little means anything. Oh yeah, I proved that. Look closer. I'm going to go listen to hippie music and look at trees.


 
Zacq Posted: Thu Jun 30 22:49:40 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Merqri said:
>Im from the Philippines.
>
>I say Americans are spoiled because some Americans complain about; being poor when theyre not. Because there is a lot of oppoturnities here in the U.S. compared to other countries. 4 example, in the Philippines a lot of people dont have a jobs and over here(US)- people complain about why they hate their work and yadiyadiyah. bullshit.
> I know a lot of people that would rather die poor(in America) rather than being poor in my country. Because in America you can be obese and poor. On the flipside, well you know where Im going with that.

If you grew up in the United States, and you were very poor by the standards of the people you saw around you every day, you would think yourself poor and possibly want to complain. Maybe if you could go live in a worse-off country and see that those people have it worse you wouldn't, but you can't.

I don't think these people are unjustified in considering themselves poor just because they're not the poorest.

"I know I just stole all your money but heck, I didn't kill you so shut up."

Hurrah for twisted comparisons.


 
Zacq Posted: Thu Jun 30 22:53:18 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Merqri said:
>You are right. Its not just Americans. But right now I am mainly mad at the American leaders for lying to the world.

You can't use the lies of the current administration as evidence that Americans are stupid. You can use the lies of the current administration as evidence that half of the population is stupid. The smart half is just as angry as you, we're just too lazy to storm the capital. I blame hot pockets.


 
iggy Posted: Thu Jun 30 23:14:46 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  i sense the dark side is strong in this one.....




 
Ed Posted: Thu Jun 30 23:17:47 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Zacq said:
>You can't use the lies of the current administration as evidence that Americans are stupid.

Yeah, come on, Merq. Haven't you seen any "Not My President" shirts?

>The smart half is just as angry as you, we're just too lazy to storm the capital.

You're saying that the smart ones are of that poor obese group? ;)


 
Zacq Posted: Thu Jun 30 23:52:20 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  It's a sad day at GT when Zacq is the one defending the U.S.

I've spent much of the last three or four days rooting against American tennis players. Stupid Venus.


 
FN Posted: Fri Jul 1 02:15:11 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Yes, I can't stand that Venus guy either.

What is he doing in female tennis anyway.


 
Mesh Posted: Fri Jul 1 02:16:21 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>Yes, I can't stand that Venus guy either.
>
>What is he doing in female tennis anyway.


HAH!


 
Merqri Posted: Fri Jul 1 02:32:56 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  To each his own. I see everyones point & I see that everyone here sees the main point. One final thing I may add;

I actually am mad at a lot of things going on in the world. Yes I am bashing America cuz right now America is leading most of the of the bullshit(especially in Iraq). Can you blame me? There are people in the Middle East who have lost their family cuz the US is bombing the shit outta those countries. And they think Bush is the terrorist. Can you blame'em? What I feel isnt wrong. I am not guilty.


"It's a sad day at GT when Zacq is the one defending the U.S.

I've spent much of the last three or four days rooting against American tennis players. Stupid Venus."-Zacq. Wow, thats real sad.

Some of yall must sleep very well. Most American kids are spoiled. B E-Z.


 
FN Posted: Fri Jul 1 02:40:38 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Merq, chill.

You can be a critic without having to have a thumb up your ass.

I wonder how many people spend their days pondering on how sad it is that whole populations are being decimated in africa due to hunger and aids.

That's just the way it is, and if you happen to be born there; tough luck.

If you think you're going to make the world a better place, feel free to live the illusion, but don't be too baffled when other people care more about their own, sometimes trivial, stuff than what's going on on the other side of the world.

As for Zacq, I don't see what he said wrong. Try and get a sense of humour.


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Fri Jul 1 02:51:17 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Merqri said:
>Coming from a very poor corrupt country(P.I.).I think most of American kids are spoiled. They complain too much. They want too much. Too many people wanna conquer each other. I think expecially TV(media) has brainwashed most of them. A whole lot of them are ignorant. America isnt that great. I also think a lot of Americans are idiots. But the rest and a few of yall are kool. If I offended you then this here was meant for you. Because its the blatant truth.

To tell the truth, I used to think that way about Americans when I was really young. My parents and their coffee table talk with their friends basically imprinted this image in my mind that all american kids were spoiled little snots who were allowed to disrespect their parents and get away with it. [I'm of Chinese descent, btw.]

And I believed what my parents and their friends would say. I mean, even when I looked around me, I saw all of my peers comfortable in their wealth. They were loud, obnoxious, "spoiled." Truth be told, I didn't hold a lot of respect for Americans.

Then, one night changed everything.

I was getting ready to take a bath [4 or 5 at the time] when i realized my mother was outside talking to one of the neighbors. Impatient and thinking it was late into the night [which it was, for me... 8 or 9 I suppose], I opened the door to take a look at my mom. She was chatting with one of our "American" neighbors. By American, I mean this woman could give Apple Pie a freaking run for its American-ness.

Four kids, three dogs, middle class, two minivans. Always baking stuff, always talking on the phone, and seemed to wear the staple oversized t-shirt and biking capris of the mid/ early nineties. Anyway, my mom was talking to this woman. And, thinking I'd be cute and act like the way I thought all "American" kids were [ie disrespectful, rude, loudmouthed, obnoxious], I yelled, "Hey Mom! I need a bath! Get your butt in here!"

Yeah, needless to say, I got in trouble for that one. Ironically, not from my mom. She was too shocked and disappointed at me to say anything [i don't blame her. my misconception of american kids may have come from her, but i should have known better than to try and "be cute" like that]. Rather, my neighbor with the four obnoxious kids that would run around the neighborhood all day and ruin people's yards, yeah. She yelled at me. A lot.

Good memories, eh?

Anyway, my point is this. You can't label people like you did. Because what you said was NOT the blatant truth. The blatant truth is that American culture, while allowing kids to be loud and obnoxious, still holds kids accountable for their actions. Respect and courtesy are still expected, even if some parents don't teach their kids better.

And you know what? Poor parenting doesn't happen just in America. It happens in other countries too. You have spoiled kids from every country.

Also, you might want to define what you mean by spoiled. Being materially comfortable is not necessarily spoiled. Example? A starving family gives all their food and money to help one main child because, say, he's the first born son. They do not restrain him or rebuke him. Whereas a middle class family treats all their kids equally, and teaches them when needed with the wooden spoon. The child from the starving family will never be materially equal to the middle-class kid. But which kid is spoiled?

You also need to look at the fact that being loud and obnoxious and albeit sometimes arrogant is NOT the only evil. You think driving kids to commit suicide over grades is any better?

Plus, Americans are some of the most giving and open people out there. They don't care how shady someone looks; you KNOW some fool is gonna try and get in their business [Haha. Nosy Americans.]. For a lot of asian cultures, reaching out to your neighbor and trying to find out what's going on in their life is taboo.

Or what about community service and outreach programs? How often is that emphasized in other countries?

Or what about Asian cultures where people just don't say, "I love you" ? It's a cultural thing, sure, but is it necessarily better?

And how many American kids do you know? How many compared to all the Asian kids or African kids or European kids?

Granted, I'm not saying I know a good number from every culture in the world. But I'm not the one bashing a group of people because I'm mad at their country's leaders.

American kids are spoiled and they are obnoxious. I'll run with that. But American kids also know how privileged they are. Just because someone complains about a job doesn't mean they aren't thankful they have one.

I mean, how often to you remind yourself, "Thank goodness for EVERYTHING I have. I'm never going to complain about any situation I'm in. EVER. Because someone is worse off than me."

Because ya know what? If we think about a 2 year old starving African boy whose mother is dying of AIDS, none of us have the right to complain unless we WERE the 2 yr old starving African boy whose mother was dying of AIDS. Which I doubt. Meaning that no belonging to this forum gets to complain EVER.

None of us.

Because none of us will ever be the poor starving 2 year old African boy whose mother was dying of AIDs. Who might also have AIDs. Whose entire intimate family might have AIDs.

Think about that for a second. Just think about it.


Also, the US is a country. It's just people who give up on it [and say it's a corporation] that allow the idea that it's a corporation to take hold. Some of us out there, though, haven't give up on the US yet.



And to be honest, when I read your post, I found it extremely close-minded and ignorant. To label a group of people that way and then be as bold to say something like, "If I offended you then this here was meant for you. Because its the blatant truth," is not only rude and obnoxious, but you frankly sound spoiled. As if everyone is supposed to agree with your opinion, or they're wrong.

I understand you're actually mad at the American leaders, but if that's who you want to verbally attack, do so.

But if you think that for one second that you can put forth a close-minded statement on GT and get away with it without being called out, you're deeply mistaken.

Addi was a real gentleman when he asked you to keep an open mind. I don't think I've been as polite, but i tried to keep it as impersonal as possible.

Truth is I don't have anything against you so I hope you won't take any offense to what I've written. I would respond in the same way to any close-minded and ignorant statement against a group of people.

But honestly, if you're not gonna listen to me, listen to Addi when he told you to keep a more positive and open mind. It's amazing what you learn about people and cultures when you do.


 
Merqri Posted: Fri Jul 1 02:52:29 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>Merq, chill.

>
>I wonder how many people spend their days pondering on how sad it is that whole populations are being decimated in africa due to hunger and aids.
>
>That's just the way it is, and if you happen to be born there; tough luck.

If you think you're going to make the world a better place, feel free to live the illusion, but don't be too baffled when other people care more about their own, sometimes trivial, stuff than what's going on on the other side of the world.

DAMN, thats real harsh. Fuck it.


 
iggy Posted: Fri Jul 1 03:10:11 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  this is where i normally do this.

i don't agree with a lot of what the US government has been doing in recent years, and i dun think i want to comment on that.

however, being ignorant and biased on the entire population of younger people in the united states is in many ways cultural racism.

i don't go down the street and shout bloody yanks just because i'm not born in a country that was better than mine.

just because your country is poorer than another dun mean u can judge their folk.

being bitter and biased is something that don't open your mind to other cultures and thinking. so chill dude.

and i dun think u like people stereotyping your fellow citizens as well.

chill, relax, open your mind and maybe u'll learn something from the americans.

besides u're living there now, so enjoy what the country has to offer and contribute what u've learnt ...

that's my 2 cents.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Fri Jul 1 06:55:55 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Merqri said:
> To each his own. I see everyones point & I see that everyone here sees the main point. One final thing I may add;
>
>I actually am mad at a lot of things going on in the world. Yes I am bashing America cuz right now America is leading most of the of the bullshit(especially in Iraq). Can you blame me? There are people in the Middle East who have lost their family cuz the US is bombing the shit outta those countries. And they think Bush is the terrorist. Can you blame'em? What I feel isnt wrong. I am not guilty.
>

merq, I suspect you're probably too young to understand the complexities of the world or even the complexities GT because your post are very infantile and narrow minded.
The facts are that most of the Iraqi people are glad to have the Americans there, and yes some people have lost their families and that is unfortunate. Even still, in the same period of time we have been there, how many innocents do you think Saddam would have killed for no purpose whatsoever ?
Since the arrival of America, there are no more political prisons, no more childrens prisons, and no more rape rooms where you can be tied to a chair and watch some really nice guy rape your 8 year old daughter and get a check from Saddam to do this.
There are no more heads rolling in the streets and the water and power are being evenly distributed to all.
Even with the current insurgency, the death toll is way less than before under Saddam.

As for American kids being spoiled, so fucking what ?
Exactly what does that mean ? They are born into privilege ?
Let me tell you, no matter what the economic status, people will have things to complain about, it's unavoidable, it's human nature. People are never complacent, and that is probably a good thing. It's what keeps us from being no more than cattle.

As for your broad uninformed statements about America and her children, I would like to know what you base this on ?
What have you to compare to, how much of the world have you seen with your own eyes ?


 
JesusOnline Posted: Fri Jul 1 07:48:16 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Saddam was brutal.
Many thousands of people were tortured and killed during his reign and it would have continued, lets not pretend he was going to stop.

So the USA decide to take action - not alone ofcourse. The army insurgance most certainly cost lives of innocent men women and children, and left family's devastated, for them I pray.
I do however support the war, as it dislodged Saddam and will allow Iraq to reform and become a stable, safe nation. It's gonna take time, surely however it's worth it than to continue with savage beatings, imprisonment, rape and murder at the hands of a power hungry leader.

I'm from Scotland, United Kingdom. The war did not have the full support of the whole country but because some disagree with it, doesn't mean they feel they must strike down on the american's and disrespect them. Countries leaders may be attacked for "lying" to their nations but why shout out sweeping generalisations on a nation.

As a child I was not spoiled, I did however want more, and I complained about not getting things. However I was born into a privelleged society where I did not need to worry about where my next meal was coming from and I had no worries about being kidnapped and tortured, so I complained about not having the newest toy or my soda being too hot - because these were the things that affected my life at that point. Children in nations in need, want something to eat, they want to be safe. They also want things too, they are less vocal because they know the sitations they are living in. American children do too, they realise the sitautions they are in means they can get food and are safe.

I live near a man, who is seeking asylum in this country. He is a fantastic man whom captivates me as he tells his tales. He's told me of his journey here and how happy he is now - In his house, with a job. The smile on his face is clear, he has wants he needs, money for food and a safe home to live in. I could go and talk to him now though and ask him what he wants now he has what he needs, and he'd tell me the safe as he did last time, More money, a larger house, a nicer car. Spoiled? Idiot? Does he want too much?
No, he wants more than he needs because his new society allows people to have more than they need, those toys and cold soda's that they want.


 
addi Posted: Fri Jul 1 08:14:24 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  sigh
i love this place. I love you people.

*even if most of you are spoiled little brats


 
Ahriman Posted: Fri Jul 1 10:08:46 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  The whole dictator arguement has never been my favorite way of defending our actions. There are many other places in the world that need our military intervention much more right now, such as Darfur.

I was born in the US. I live in New York. I grew up middle class. I have been shot at. Had a cocked and loaded .385 aimed at my stomach. Been in fights. Seen people die. Callused hands and feet. Worked for hours and hours on end in 95 degrees F weather with 100% humidity all the way to 4 feet of snow in -23 degrees F. The economy in Western New York has been plummeting ever since 9/11. There are no jobs, and businesses keep leaving. My dad got fired from his job. The main reason we stay here in New York is because the education system is the best in the country. I have had to deal with spoiled people (not just children) and it annoys me. I try to inform people around me everyday of what they need to be reading and understanding. I agree that many Americans are spoiled, but many are that way because they know no other way to live. They need their Oprah and t.v. dinners. I don't know what the true way is to live. I don't know what is real or just made up bullshit. I hope someday it strikes me, but till then...


 
ifihadahif Posted: Fri Jul 1 11:15:19 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Ahriman said:
>The whole dictator arguement has never been my favorite way of defending our actions. There are many other places in the world that need our military intervention much more right now, such as Darfur.
>
Really ?
How does one decide which place military intervention would be more effective ?
If we depose the govenment in Darfur, who will run the country ?
Where is the rest of the world on this one ? Why are they not in there doing some of the dirty work ?


 
breeze Posted: Fri Jul 1 12:07:25 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  filthy mcnasty said:
>Really ?
>How does one decide which place military intervention would be more effective ?

By the number of lives that can be saved and by the number that are being killed while no action is taken.

>If we depose the govenment in Darfur, who will run the country ?

When the government in Iraq was deposed, was there anybody ready to run the government instead of Saddam? Then why this should stop us now?

>Where is the rest of the world on this one ? Why are they not in there doing some of the dirty work ?

The U.S. didn't think about it when it was planning to invade Iraq to get rid of Saddam. They didn't wait for the rest of the world to act, they just said we gonna do it with or without you. So why double standards? Or is it because Sudan doesn't have anything attractive for the U.S., i.e. strategically and economically? Or is it because Sudan government was an "ally in Way on terrorism"?

Not that i'm trying to debate here, just some thoughts...

As Kuro says for what it's worth...


 
jennemmer Posted: Fri Jul 1 12:53:30 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I will start off by admitting I haven't read the whole thread. If I am repeating anything forgive me.

It's not just the U.S. it's a trend in any country where people are relatively well off. It seems to me that more and more people are trying to bribe their children into liking them. They don't have or make the time to give them but still want to show they care so kids get playstations and TVs in their rooms and ipod and laptops. I know kids who know this and milk it for all it's worth and their parents don't seem to notice or care.

I know so many people my age who are having real financial trouble because they have not been used to having to work for things. That video game that they used to twist their parents arms into buying is now 4-6 hours of work at most part time or entry level jobs. They still feel entitled to more than they can afford and rack up credit card bills that they can't pay off without going with even less.

My two cents (1.63 cents U.S ;)


 
ifihadahif Posted: Fri Jul 1 13:13:24 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  breeze said:
>filthy mcnasty said:
>>Really ?
>>How does one decide which place military intervention would be more effective ?
>
>By the number of lives that can be saved and by the number that are being killed while no action is taken.
>
And how many lives could we save by deposing the existing govt ?
Are they not in the middle of a civil war there ?
You fight the fights that you can win, the fights that make sense, not the ones that tug at your emotions.
>>If we depose the govenment in Darfur, who will run the country ?
>
>When the government in Iraq was deposed, was there anybody ready to run the government instead of Saddam? Then why this should stop us now?
>
Yes, there were many well educated accepted leaders ready to step in.
In Sudan this is just not the case, and the power vacuum would create more chaos and could cost even more lives.
>>Where is the rest of the world on this one ? Why are they not in there doing some of the dirty work ?
>
>The U.S. didn't think about it when it was planning to invade Iraq to get rid of Saddam. They didn't wait for the rest of the world to act, they just said we gonna do it with or without you. So why double standards? Or is it because Sudan doesn't have anything attractive for the U.S., i.e. strategically and economically? Or is it because Sudan government was an "ally in Way on terrorism"?
>
Number one: this is not about Iraq, that is a whole other argument.
A suggestion was made that we should send our military into Darfur and I asked where the rest of the world stands on this one.

Number two: Why do people keep coming back with that tired old argument about the war being for oil ? No one has produced a shred of evidence for that and I will ask once again, since no one ever has answered - what was the strategic/economic benefit for America in Kosovo ? the Phillipines ? Taiwan ?
South korea ? Grenada ?
I will also ask, what country are you from ? Will your country risk the lives of it's children in a war that does not have strategic/economic benefits ? Do you know of such a country ?
>Not that i'm trying to debate here, just some thoughts...
>
>As Kuro says for what it's worth...


 
breeze Posted: Fri Jul 1 13:39:04 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  filthy mcnasty said:
>breeze said:
>>filthy mcnasty said:
>>>Really ?
>>>How does one decide which place military intervention would be more effective ?
>>
>>By the number of lives that can be saved and by the number that are being killed while no action is taken.
>>
>And how many lives could we save by deposing the existing govt ?
>Are they not in the middle of a civil war there ?
>You fight the fights that you can win, the fights that make sense, not the ones that tug at your emotions.
>>>If we depose the govenment in Darfur, who will run the country ?
>>
>>When the government in Iraq was deposed, was there anybody ready to run the government instead of Saddam? Then why this should stop us now?
>>
>Yes, there were many well educated accepted leaders ready to step in.
>In Sudan this is just not the case, and the power vacuum would create more chaos and could cost even more lives.
>>>Where is the rest of the world on this one ? Why are they not in there doing some of the dirty work ?
>>
>>The U.S. didn't think about it when it was planning to invade Iraq to get rid of Saddam. They didn't wait for the rest of the world to act, they just said we gonna do it with or without you. So why double standards? Or is it because Sudan doesn't have anything attractive for the U.S., i.e. strategically and economically? Or is it because Sudan government was an "ally in Way on terrorism"?
>>
>Number one: this is not about Iraq, that is a whole other argument.
>A suggestion was made that we should send our military into Darfur and I asked where the rest of the world stands on this one.
>
>Number two: Why do people keep coming back with that tired old argument about the war being for oil ? No one has produced a shred of evidence for that and I will ask once again, since no one ever has answered - what was the strategic/economic benefit for America in Kosovo ? the Phillipines ? Taiwan ?
>South korea ? Grenada ?
>I will also ask, what country are you from ? Will your country risk the lives of it's children in a war that does not have strategic/economic benefits ? Do you know of such a country ?
>>Not that i'm trying to debate here, just some thoughts...
>>
>>As Kuro says for what it's worth...


This debate can go on forever, so let's just leave each of us at our own opinion. I'm heading out of the office, taking an early start on the weekend. Hugs!


 
ifihadahif Posted: Fri Jul 1 13:44:27 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  breeze said:
>>This debate can go on forever, so let's just leave each of us at our own opinion. I'm heading out of the office, taking an early start on the weekend. Hugs!
>
True, true . . .
Hope your weekend is a good one.
And HAPPY 4TH OF JULY ! !



 
DanSRose Posted: Fri Jul 1 18:11:48 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Yay! 'Splosion Weekend!

I like jokes. My favorite mythological characters growing up were the trickster. Loki, Anansi, Coyote. The way we lose ourselves is when we take ourselves too seriously. I have major depression; I know exactly what it's like to lose perspective, and gain it back. That's about when I, and everyone else I know who are sane, crazy, or are calling themselves sane, start ranting and losing touch with the things.

I'm overly caffeinated right now and rereading that, it doesn't seem to make sense. I'm posting it anyway.


 
kurohyou Posted: Fri Jul 1 19:28:42 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  innocenceNonus said:
>Merqri said:
>>Coming from a very poor corrupt country(P.I.).I think most of American kids are spoiled. They complain too much. They want too much. Too many people wanna conquer each other. I think expecially TV(media) has brainwashed most of them. A whole lot of them are ignorant. America isnt that great. I also think a lot of Americans are idiots. But the rest and a few of yall are kool. If I offended you then this here was meant for you. Because its the blatant truth.
>
>To tell the truth, I used to think that way about Americans when I was really young. My parents and their coffee table talk with their friends basically imprinted this image in my mind that all american kids were spoiled little snots who were allowed to disrespect their parents and get away with it. [I'm of Chinese descent, btw.]
>
>And I believed what my parents and their friends would say. I mean, even when I looked around me, I saw all of my peers comfortable in their wealth. They were loud, obnoxious, "spoiled." Truth be told, I didn't hold a lot of respect for Americans.
>
>Then, one night changed everything.
>
>I was getting ready to take a bath [4 or 5 at the time] when i realized my mother was outside talking to one of the neighbors. Impatient and thinking it was late into the night [which it was, for me... 8 or 9 I suppose], I opened the door to take a look at my mom. She was chatting with one of our "American" neighbors. By American, I mean this woman could give Apple Pie a freaking run for its American-ness.
>
>Four kids, three dogs, middle class, two minivans. Always baking stuff, always talking on the phone, and seemed to wear the staple oversized t-shirt and biking capris of the mid/ early nineties. Anyway, my mom was talking to this woman. And, thinking I'd be cute and act like the way I thought all "American" kids were [ie disrespectful, rude, loudmouthed, obnoxious], I yelled, "Hey Mom! I need a bath! Get your butt in here!"
>
>Yeah, needless to say, I got in trouble for that one. Ironically, not from my mom. She was too shocked and disappointed at me to say anything [i don't blame her. my misconception of american kids may have come from her, but i should have known better than to try and "be cute" like that]. Rather, my neighbor with the four obnoxious kids that would run around the neighborhood all day and ruin people's yards, yeah. She yelled at me. A lot.
>
>Good memories, eh?
>
>Anyway, my point is this. You can't label people like you did. Because what you said was NOT the blatant truth. The blatant truth is that American culture, while allowing kids to be loud and obnoxious, still holds kids accountable for their actions. Respect and courtesy are still expected, even if some parents don't teach their kids better.
>
>And you know what? Poor parenting doesn't happen just in America. It happens in other countries too. You have spoiled kids from every country.
>
>Also, you might want to define what you mean by spoiled. Being materially comfortable is not necessarily spoiled. Example? A starving family gives all their food and money to help one main child because, say, he's the first born son. They do not restrain him or rebuke him. Whereas a middle class family treats all their kids equally, and teaches them when needed with the wooden spoon. The child from the starving family will never be materially equal to the middle-class kid. But which kid is spoiled?
>
>You also need to look at the fact that being loud and obnoxious and albeit sometimes arrogant is NOT the only evil. You think driving kids to commit suicide over grades is any better?
>
>Plus, Americans are some of the most giving and open people out there. They don't care how shady someone looks; you KNOW some fool is gonna try and get in their business [Haha. Nosy Americans.]. For a lot of asian cultures, reaching out to your neighbor and trying to find out what's going on in their life is taboo.
>
>Or what about community service and outreach programs? How often is that emphasized in other countries?
>
>Or what about Asian cultures where people just don't say, "I love you" ? It's a cultural thing, sure, but is it necessarily better?
>
>And how many American kids do you know? How many compared to all the Asian kids or African kids or European kids?
>
>Granted, I'm not saying I know a good number from every culture in the world. But I'm not the one bashing a group of people because I'm mad at their country's leaders.
>
>American kids are spoiled and they are obnoxious. I'll run with that. But American kids also know how privileged they are. Just because someone complains about a job doesn't mean they aren't thankful they have one.
>
>I mean, how often to you remind yourself, "Thank goodness for EVERYTHING I have. I'm never going to complain about any situation I'm in. EVER. Because someone is worse off than me."
>
>Because ya know what? If we think about a 2 year old starving African boy whose mother is dying of AIDS, none of us have the right to complain unless we WERE the 2 yr old starving African boy whose mother was dying of AIDS. Which I doubt. Meaning that no belonging to this forum gets to complain EVER.
>
>None of us.
>
>Because none of us will ever be the poor starving 2 year old African boy whose mother was dying of AIDs. Who might also have AIDs. Whose entire intimate family might have AIDs.
>
>Think about that for a second. Just think about it.
>
>
>Also, the US is a country. It's just people who give up on it [and say it's a corporation] that allow the idea that it's a corporation to take hold. Some of us out there, though, haven't give up on the US yet.
>
>
>
>And to be honest, when I read your post, I found it extremely close-minded and ignorant. To label a group of people that way and then be as bold to say something like, "If I offended you then this here was meant for you. Because its the blatant truth," is not only rude and obnoxious, but you frankly sound spoiled. As if everyone is supposed to agree with your opinion, or they're wrong.
>
>I understand you're actually mad at the American leaders, but if that's who you want to verbally attack, do so.
>
>But if you think that for one second that you can put forth a close-minded statement on GT and get away with it without being called out, you're deeply mistaken.
>
>Addi was a real gentleman when he asked you to keep an open mind. I don't think I've been as polite, but i tried to keep it as impersonal as possible.
>
>Truth is I don't have anything against you so I hope you won't take any offense to what I've written. I would respond in the same way to any close-minded and ignorant statement against a group of people.
>
>But honestly, if you're not gonna listen to me, listen to Addi when he told you to keep a more positive and open mind. It's amazing what you learn about people and cultures when you do.

Well said...I erased the rambling blob of incoherant banter I put down after reading this. No sense in repeating what has already been said.

For what it's worth...

PS everyone have a good long weekend.




 
addi Posted: Fri Jul 1 22:07:43 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  We like your rambling blobs of incoherant banter, Kuro.

(except when I've had too much tequilla)

you have a good weekend too, and I hope this place doesn't turn into a ghost town over the next few days. I get lonely
: )


 
Merqri Posted: Sat Jul 2 02:53:37 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  America(ns) hunt(s) on a full stomach.


 
JesusOnline Posted: Sat Jul 2 06:23:25 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Merqri said:
>America(ns) hunt(s) on a full stomach.

It's the best way to go about it.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sat Jul 2 08:04:53 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Merqri said:
>America(ns) hunt(s) on a full stomach.
>
So does the orca. What is your point ?


 
addi Posted: Sat Jul 2 08:08:34 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  you should always hunt for fuzzy beavers on a full stomach, otherwise you run out of energy and they get away


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sat Jul 2 08:13:02 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I like shaved beavers, but they are little more slippery.


 
addi Posted: Sat Jul 2 09:14:51 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  filthy mcnasty said:
>I like shaved beavers, but they are little more slippery.

That's because you're putting too much oil on them.

The tricky part is figuring out what to do with one after you've caught one. Do you eat them, or pet them, or just play fun fuzzy beaver games for a while and then let them go? (the catch and release program)

...and you have to treat them with respect. If you catch one with a nasty disposition they can be dangerous. I read about a fuzzy beaver attack in Florida and the moron got slapped in the face and lost a finger to boot!


*sigh...I need to see a psychologist


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sat Jul 2 09:56:58 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>filthy mcnasty said:
>>I like shaved beavers, but they are little more slippery.
>
>That's because you're putting too much oil on them.
>
>The tricky part is figuring out what to do with one after you've caught one. Do you eat them, or pet them, or just play fun fuzzy beaver games for a while and then let them go? (the catch and release program)
>
Only if you've caught your limit.
I've got some good recipes to share if you're interested.
Most involve handcuffs though.




 
DanSRose Posted: Sat Jul 2 11:52:27 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>...and you have to treat them with respect. If you catch one with a nasty disposition they can be dangerous. I read about a fuzzy beaver attack in Florida and the moron got slapped in the face and lost a finger to boot!
>
>
>*sigh...I need to see a psychologist

*snicker* That was the first thing I saw as I regained consciousness. Today wil be a good day.

Everything goes back to Coyote. There's one story where he loses a series of bets with Beaver and literally loses his ass (How Beaver got his tail). There's another one where he gives his penis to Rabbit for awhile. It's too big and he goes flopping and hopping around (Why there are so many Rabbits/Why Rabbits hop)


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Sat Jul 2 16:42:44 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Oy... sometimes, I wonder how we EVER let that beaver business catch on...

But then I remember. This is GT. And every possible word that can be a sexual euphemism WILL be a sexual euphemism.

HAHAHA!! Cheers to you, GTers!

And thanks to you, Kurohyu.


And as for Americans hunting on full stomachs, so do people from all the other countries. And I'll support this statement on both the literal AND figurative level.

Literal first.

You think Americans are the only ones who hunt for sport? You think the fishermen who're strangling the oceans and seas with their greedy nets- you think they do it because they need to eat all of those fish? You think ALL of them are Americans?

Also, let me remind you that Americans weren't the first people who thought of hunting for sport. America was still populated by Native Americans [woohoo! I like the Native Americans, btw. Awesome cultures/ civilizations... Darn the white man!] when some people from the other side of the pond thought it'd be cool to kill a tiger or alligator or whatever for show/ fun.

Also, while there are several countries who have "third world" districts, are you telling me that NO ONE in that country is well-fed? That NO ONE in that country would EVER hunt with a full stomach? If you believe that, you're wrong.

The fact of life is that you can't make sweeping generalizations about people because you'll always be wrong. There is always an exception. There's always a glitch in the system. Taadaa!

Now,

Figurative level.

America as a country hunting on a full stomach? Quite the contrary.

If anything, you probably would have done better to say that America hunts because it can never be satiated.

Also, need I remind you that if 9/11 [or anything equivalent] had never happened, it's very likely that none of the chaos and troubles following it would have ensued? We still would prolly be having tensions between the US and Iraq, but I doubt a war would have ensued. And thus, I say that America would have remained relatively peaceful, and W would have stuck to annoying the citizens of his own country instead of those from others.

I'm leaving the basis for my argument in the above paragraph to be said after my closing, btw. For all those interested in political debate...

Anyway, back to what I was saying about the figurative level of that statement, I'd also like to point out that America does NOT have a full stomach. It's pretty steep in debt, and the economy of the country fairly sucks.

But I suppose you're going to say that it has a comparatively full stomach, right?? If you set America up against other countries and not itself, it's pretty full, right?? Okay... fine.

But you compared with the 2 year old starving African boy whose mother is dying of AIDS, yeah. You have a comparatively full stomach too. And yet, I'm sure you still eat.

The point I'm trying to make is that you can claim that America's full all you want. But until America realizes that it's full or until it actually is full, it's not going to stop hunting.

As for hunting for sport, I personally don't agree with it. But Americans aren't the only ones who participate in the act, so don't single out Americans just because you dislike their leaders.

Like I said, if you have something against the leaders, call them out instead of everyone [willful or not] behind them. Not only will you get a lot more support for your rant, but you'll also sound a lot less immature.

Now, here comes my argument for why everything that has happened all hinges on 9/11.

9/11 really brought everyone in the US together to an almost sickening extent. Everyone felt this HUGE surge of pride and nationalism, and people were all behind W cheering and rooting for him.

Now, even with all this nationalism fresh in our minds, 49% of our country did NOT want Bush in the office come time for the next election. Bush, in my opinion, seemed to quickly fall from favor. [Then again, forgive me if my perspective is skewed. You have to remember that I live in a violently red state.] If 9/11 never happened and Bush didn't have the die-hard supporters made from the fire of 9/11, then I think that there's a good chance the War in Iraq wouldn't have happened.

Truth be told, there's a chance that it still would have. I mean, in my opinion, Bush was looking for an excuse to get in. But if no real [or sellable] excuse came along and if he lost all support he would have gained from 9/11, then there's a good chance it wouldn't.

Well, in my opinion. Any other thoughts on this??


 
addi Posted: Sat Jul 2 17:17:47 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  innocenceNonus said:
>Oy... sometimes, I wonder how we EVER let that beaver business catch on...

beaver business..hmm..sounds like something you'd read on a business card for a pimp
(i know you're rolling your eyes)

and I do enjoy reading your thoughts, KT, even when they start going all over the place, you somehow end up coming back to your origonal point...eventually.
: )


 
erikagm Posted: Sat Jul 2 17:52:41 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  My ten cents?

All countries suck.

That said, let me explain myself.

All countries, if you look deep enough, have something in them worth hating.

If you look at the USA (which is NOT America, America is the whole continent, just a reminder to the people that call the USA America), then you have an abuse in capitalism, abuse of power, spoiled children (which is how this thread began) etc etc etc

That said, I'm a Mexican. If you look at Mexico, you have corrupt leaders, an economy dependent on the USA because the leaders want it to be that way (Mexico has natural resources coming out of its ass... If it really wanted to become independent of everyone else, it could, but its not in the government's best interest), poverty, injustice, etc etc etc

If you look at Brazil, you have those raids on ghetto children

If you look at Sudan.. Well, I'm not even going there...

And I could go on and on.

Point is, if you live in a country, it's because you're there by choice. If I really DID hate Mexico that much, I could move. Or I could do something about it. It probably wouldn't be effective but point is, I have choices.

We all have to stop whining and groaning and complaining and getting off our asses to do something about it.

Now. You complain about the USA, yet you chose to live there. That was YOUR choice, and even if you've changed your mind, you could still choose to move elsewhere. Starting to catch my drift on this one?

Thing is, you probably moved from the Phillipines because, as you said before, you could lead a better life in the USA. Despite all the things you hate about it. You picked the lesser of two evils. You picked. Deal with your decisions.

If you hate the way USA kids are raised, then once you have children, CHOOSE to raise them differently. That is what you can do about it. (Short of starting a support group for people who think like you, anyway)

And I think I've said my piece. I'm gonna run off now.

Cheers!


 
erikagm Posted: Sat Jul 2 17:57:01 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Oh. Just one more thing.

When I was younger, meaning my teen years and early 20's (I'm 27 now), I used to dream of moving to the USA and living there. I thought it was a great place to be.

I lived in the USA for a school year when I was 17. I got to see exactly the kind of behavior you are talking about. I didnt mind it, since I was in the age group that is usually affected. I actually thrived in it, although I like to say I have different standards and values.

Still, I dreamt of moving to the USA. That is, until I decided I wanted to have a child. Now, I dont have one yet, but the point here is, I didnt want my child to grow up in American culture, because of the exact points you mentioned earlier.

I chose to remain in Mexico, because of the sets of values here, and although Mexico is very much "americanized" now, we still have very different views on a variety of subjects, which directly affect how a child is raised.

So I chose to remain in Mexico. My children will definitely not grow up in the way that you are describing. Because I made a choice.

We can all choose, no matter where we are.


 
Zacq Posted: Sat Jul 2 18:59:07 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  erikagm said:
>So I chose to remain in Mexico. My children will definitely not grow up in the way that you are describing. Because I made a choice.

If you were able to make the decision not to raise your kids in the U.S., you wouldn't be the kind of parent who would allow her kids to be like that. So it wouldn't really matter where you are.



Earlier today I remembered that someone had something about poor Americans still being obese and think it should be pointed out that often the cheapest food in this country is McDonalds and other foods that will make kids fat if it's all they eat. Not that they're necessarily as poor as people from other countries, but that's the reason.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sat Jul 2 20:38:56 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
 
McDonalds is the cheapest fast food, not the cheapest food.
The cheapest food would be rice, dried beans, and pasta found on the shelves of your nearest grocer.
You can make a pot of bean soup that is healthy and nutritious and tasty as well for well under 5 bucks that will feed 5-6 people.
>



 
Ed Posted: Sat Jul 2 20:58:41 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  filthy mcnasty said:
>The cheapest food would be rice, dried beans, and pasta found on the shelves of your nearest grocer.
>You can make a pot of bean soup that is healthy and nutritious and tasty as well for well under 5 bucks that will feed 5-6 people.

Why do I see that as my college diet...


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Sat Jul 2 21:47:36 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>beaver business..hmm..sounds like something you'd read on a business card for a pimp
>(i know you're rolling your eyes)
>
>and I do enjoy reading your thoughts, KT, even when they start going all over the place, you somehow end up coming back to your origonal point...eventually.
>: )

Actually, I didn't roll my eyes. I instead laughed heartily.

And as for going all over the place in thought... eh... Circumvention. Fun thing, that.


 
novemberrain Posted: Sat Jul 2 22:04:39 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Ed said:
>filthy mcnasty said:
>>The cheapest food would be rice, dried beans, and pasta found on the shelves of your nearest grocer.
>>You can make a pot of bean soup that is healthy and nutritious and tasty as well for well under 5 bucks that will feed 5-6 people.
>
>Why do I see that as my college diet...

Your college diet will probably be ramen noodles. A lot of friends can't stand it now because they ate it so much in college.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sat Jul 2 23:25:36 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  novemberrain said:
>Ed said:
>>filthy mcnasty said:
>>>The cheapest food would be rice, dried beans, and pasta found on the shelves of your nearest grocer.
>>>You can make a pot of bean soup that is healthy and nutritious and tasty as well for well under 5 bucks that will feed 5-6 people.
>>
>>Why do I see that as my college diet...
>
>Your college diet will probably be ramen noodles. A lot of friends can't stand it now because they ate it so much in college.
>
Ah yes, ramen noodles, the absolute cheapest of all meals.
Around here you can a 12 pack for $1.25.
That's 12 "meals" for a buck twenty five.
I don't care how poor you are, you can afford ramen noodles.
Of course you will get sick of them.
Learn to cook. Even beans can make an absolutely scrumptious meal if you know how to cook.
And don't forget the cornbread !


 
addi Posted: Sat Jul 2 23:53:30 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  filthy mcnasty said:

>And don't forget the cornbread !

...and the Rondelle of Salmon with Juniper Berry Sauce, Grilled Pork Tenderloin with Stewed Fruit, Carrots with Raisins and Fresh Mint, Julienne Leeks, Gratin Dauphinois and Rice Pilaf

and a nice 30 year old port for sipping after dinner while you study.

It's a must for college kids on a budget!



 
Mesh Posted: Sun Jul 3 02:29:14 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  filthy mcnasty said:
>
>
>And don't forget the cornbread !



Mmmmm thats good stuff. Some people 'round here make it with jalapeños in them.....really quite good.


 
Asswipe Posted: Sun Jul 3 03:31:30 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  no, i haven't ready most people's responses.

i'm spoiled. it's nice. i don't work for anything and just want new stuff all of the time, and i'm pretty good at convincing people that it's in their best interest to buy stuff for me. i owe various friends/relatives something like 400 bucks(90% of which i borrowed to go out and get drunk), not counting the money that i never said "borrow", but, rather, "give me". but i plan to pay it all back.

heh!

cool topic.

Do I think most kids are spoiled, as in receiving good that they do not deserve? Well, it all depends on who's deciding what a kid deserves. I've talked to my dad about it, and i've seen how my mom structures her life, and well, it seems that they exist 95% for their children. One time i asked my dad what'd make him all happy-schmappy in this world and he said, "just to see you and your brothers happy."

Further: by funneling most of their resources into the enhancement of their children's lives, they're instilling this image into us on how a parent/child relationship should exist. Basically, if I have kids, i'm going to also spoil the hell out of them.

I spent most of my life playing sports/video games, because my parents work their asses off. My friends and I all work, and all we spend our money on is alcohol. Without kids to pamper; void of responsibility, we're lost. I ain't really see no reason to bust my ass for the sake of my own ass, it ain't that important of an ass, and i don't see much of a reason to bust my ass to supply people with more efficient sporks, or whatever business most people are in these days, as i don't think their asses are so important that need efficient fucking sporks. use your hands, niggs. diggit?

What this disordered ramble-fest boils down to is this: i want to live on a commune with a group of 50 people, and i dislike Merqri because he's an idiot, although he may be somewhat right, for all of the wrong reasons.


 
Mesh Posted: Sun Jul 3 07:42:36 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  w


 
Zacq Posted: Sun Jul 3 08:50:14 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  filthy mcnasty said:
>The cheapest food would be rice, dried beans, and pasta found on the shelves of your nearest grocer.
>You can make a pot of bean soup that is healthy and nutritious and tasty as well for well under 5 bucks that will feed 5-6 people.

Well then I'm not going on logic I'm going on evidence, which is better in this case.

And Ramen Noodles are horrible for you. We've given those out at soup kitchens because they're cheap but try not to let anyone have to many packs of it.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun Jul 3 09:34:46 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Zacq said:
>filthy mcnasty said:
>>The cheapest food would be rice, dried beans, and pasta found on the shelves of your nearest grocer.
>>You can make a pot of bean soup that is healthy and nutritious and tasty as well for well under 5 bucks that will feed 5-6 people.
>
>Well then I'm not going on logic I'm going on evidence, which is better in this case.
>
Don't know what your point is here.

And cornbread made with green peppers and jalapenos is the bomb !


 
addi Posted: Sun Jul 3 09:49:32 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:

>What this disordered ramble-fest boils down to is this: i want to live on a commune with a group of 50 people, and i dislike Merqri because he's an idiot, although he may be somewhat right, for all of the wrong reasons.

My god, man. That was a classic ramble-fest. Something tells me you were enjoying alcoholic drinks as you were typing this.
: )


 
Zacq Posted: Sun Jul 3 10:25:20 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  filthy mcnasty said:
>Don't know what your point is here.
>
>And cornbread made with green peppers and jalapenos is the bomb !

Suprising. You never do.

And that's ridiculous. Why would you make cornbread over corn muffins?

Though green peppers and jalapenos might actually be considered a bomb.


 
Mesh Posted: Sun Jul 3 10:26:01 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  filthy mcnasty said:
>
>jalapeños


Thank me later.



























:) Just kidding.


 
Mesh Posted: Sun Jul 3 10:36:43 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Zacq said:

>And that's ridiculous. Why would you make cornbread over corn muffins?
>


What are you, from Rigil Kentaurus or something?


 
iggy Posted: Sun Jul 3 11:56:12 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  how do you define spoilt?

having toys to play with every day?

living a life in this era as an adult, well i'm spoilt as well.

and everyone is.

computers these days are so damn cheap that everyone seems to have one or have access to it.

i remember buying my first computer... a 80286 with 256mb ram and just 500mb of hard disk space... and it costs like bloody 4000 dollars back then. and 15 years ago, having a pc at home is like instant status symbol for everyone.

now?

who uses a homephone to call anyone.
anymore?

in singapore, pay phones are so rare and i have difficulty finding one at times.

mobile phones, laptops, portable dvd players, mp3 players, discmans, and whatever have u.

everyone is spoilt... to a degree. and to hear someone point the finger and say someone is spoilt, hey... look at what u have.


am i spoilt?
yes i fucking am.

as an adult living in this era, i get to enjoy the inventions and innovations that exploded in the last couple of years... and i bloody embrace it
and what's wrong in living it up when u can afford it?

i love my powerbook, imac and ipod.
they are indispensable to me, not only for work and recreation, but to fill up the rest of the time when i have nothing to do.
i love my car, which in singapore, it is a luxury item to have... and i love going whereever i want, whenever i want.
i love my gadgets at home, not just playing games but to watch movies and all
i love my indulges in life, going to a cup of coffee at a cafe, going to a nice restaurant once in a while...
and getting my hair done, getting massages when i feel too stressed up at work.
i love my cellphone that i can't live without. not just for making calls, but to take pictures and access the internet.

if i never had them, i will find a way to own all of them.

if i have to face people calling me spoilt so that i can have my creature comforts, so be it. cos the thing is.... I AM ENJOYING THE PERKS OF HAVING ALL THEM THINGS.

i work hard, and this is how i bloody enjoy my hard work.

this is a quote from the boiler room that sums up my ambition and my pursuit for money while i work in what i love to do...

" JIM: You think I'm joking. I am not joking. I am a millionaire. It's a weird thing to hear, right? I'll tell you, it's a weird thing to say. I'm a fucking millionaire. Now guess how old I am? Twenty-seven. You know what that makes me here? A fucking senior citizen. This firm is entirely comprised of people your age, not mine. Lucky for me, I am very fucking good at my job or I'd be out of one. You guys are the new blood. You're gonna go home with the kesef. You're the future Big- Swinging-Dicks of this firm. Now you all look money hungry and that's good. Anybody who says money is the root of all evil, doesn't have it! Money can't buy happiness? Look at the fucking smile on my face. Ear to ear, baby. You wanna hear details? I drive a Ferrari 355 cabriolet. I have a ridiculous house on the South Fork. I've got every toy you can imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. "




 
Zacq Posted: Sun Jul 3 12:13:26 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Meshuggah said:
>What are you, from Rigil Kentaurus or something?

... no...


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun Jul 3 12:59:01 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Zacq said:
>filthy mcnasty said:
>>Don't know what your point is here.
>>
>>And cornbread made with green peppers and jalapenos is the bomb !
>
>Suprising. You never do.
>
>And that's ridiculous. Why would you make cornbread over corn muffins?
>
Because I have a cake pan, not a muffin pan. The only difference is what you pour the batter in before you bake it.

I like to crumble a piece of the cornbread into my bowl and then cover it with the bean soup.
Then of course I enjoy a piece of hot buttered cornbread with my soup.
Goddammit, I made myself hungry again !


 
Asswipe Posted: Sun Jul 3 13:07:05 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>Asswipe said:
>
>>What this disordered ramble-fest boils down to is this: i want to live on a commune with a group of 50 people, and i dislike Merqri because he's an idiot, although he may be somewhat right, for all of the wrong reasons.
>
>My god, man. That was a classic ramble-fest. Something tells me you were enjoying alcoholic drinks as you were typing this.
>: )

bingo.


 
Zacq Posted: Sun Jul 3 23:35:24 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  filthy mcnasty said:
>Because I have a cake pan, not a muffin pan. The only difference is what you pour the batter in before you bake it.

Have you not discovered the difference between triangularly cut sandwiches and rectangularly cut sandwiches? It's not just the actual substance of the food, it's the manner in which it's eaten.

Muffins are better. Splurge on a pan. You can make cupcakes with them to. And put gummy worms on them.


Does anyone sense any irony about this after what this thread was started for?


 
Mesh Posted: Mon Jul 4 02:26:31 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Zacq said:
>
>Have you not discovered the difference between triangularly cut sandwiches and rectangularly cut sandwiches? It's not just the actual substance of the food, it's the manner in which it's eaten.
>

>




Its true. The shape of a food affects its taste.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Jul 4 07:49:48 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Zacq said:
>Have you not discovered the difference between triangularly cut sandwiches and rectangularly cut sandwiches? It's not just the actual substance of the food, it's the manner in which it's eaten.
>
>Muffins are better. Splurge on a pan. You can make cupcakes with them to. And put gummy worms on them.
>
My god man, you might be on to something !


 
Mesh Posted: Mon Jul 4 07:55:53 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Zacq said:
>
>Does anyone sense any irony about this after what this thread was started for?


I dont know. I do see however you and hif.....mcnasty's time in agreement with eachother was short lived.


 
Zacq Posted: Mon Jul 4 10:29:21 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Well now I have to explain.

My mom used to take cupcakes and put chocolate frosting on them, and then ground up chocolate or something on top so it looked like dirt, then a gummy worm with half of its body poking out the top. When they're all next to each other it looks like mud with real worms. First graders loved it.


 
erikagm Posted: Mon Jul 4 13:04:34 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  chan said:
>how do you define spoilt?


First, I wouldnt define you as spoiled.

Spoiled is someone that gets pretty much anything they want by not having to work for it or earn it in some way except extending their hand, thinking they deserve it.

YOU arent spoiled, you work to buy your "toys". So do I. WE are not spoiled, since we know what it takes to buy those little trinkets we so adore.

I LOVE my palm. And my playstation. And my DVD player. And my 300 USD Annette Himstedt doll.

The point is, I busted my ass to get them.

People who are spoiled, just say "gimme" and expect to be handed any of these items just because they feel they deserve them for the mere act of existing.

Making any sense? I hope so.


 
Mesh Posted: Mon Jul 4 13:19:44 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  *post deleted*


 



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