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The Statue of Responsibility
Kira Posted: Mon Aug 15 14:21:34 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I recommend that the Statue of Liberty on the East Coast be supplemented by a Statue of Responsibility on the West Coast. -Viktor Frankl

I heard about this idea three or four years ago and was wondering if anyone else here (American or otherwise) had any thoughts. If it should be built, and if so, what the image should be.

I know of at least one organization working on the project: http://www.statueofresponsibility.com/


 
FN Posted: Mon Aug 15 15:01:06 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I'm sure that throughout the world it would be seen as yet another form of arrogance. I'm not saying that I would see it that way though, I couldn't care any less I think, but still.

It's like saying "lets build a monument to ourselves to show how fantastic we are and to show that we have a responsibility not to destroy those other pesky inhabitants of the world", while all America does if you ask most people around the world is setting the world on fire instead of taking its responsibility.


 
addi Posted: Mon Aug 15 15:10:37 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  What if we made the image of the statue of responsibility in your likeness, Christophe? Would we get your nod of approval then?

: )

*I know...we could name it the statue of responsibility and manly studliness


 
beetlebum Posted: Mon Aug 15 15:17:53 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I think it's a dumb idea. Perhaps I'm too cynical, but how about not building a statue and instead addressing the very issue the statue is meant to represent? Meh.


 
Kira Posted: Mon Aug 15 15:24:09 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>I'm sure that throughout the world it would be seen as yet another form of arrogance.

Do you say this even though it would be designed and built by volunteers, not by the government?


 
addi Posted: Mon Aug 15 15:53:54 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I have to go with Beetlebum on this one.
Right now I'd say we need to erect one and call it The Statue of Irresponsibilty.
Maybe after we start acting like a responsible nation and get our collective heads out of our asses we can consider renaming it something more appropriate.

*I am so ticked at our current administration and congress (yes..mostly republicans, but also some gutless democrats). I love my country, but it's very hard right now to feel anything but distain for those running it.


 
beetlebum Posted: Mon Aug 15 15:55:46 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Kira said:
>Christophe said:
>>I'm sure that throughout the world it would be seen as yet another form of arrogance.
>
>Do you say this even though it would be designed and built by volunteers, not by the government?

At least if the government did it people could disassociate themselves from the ridiculous idea. A bunch of Americans getting together who have so much time on their hands that raising money for a statue of responsibility seems like a good idea-- now that seems arrogant and ignorant.


 
FN Posted: Mon Aug 15 16:09:45 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Kira said:
>Do you say this even though it would be designed and built by volunteers, not by the government?

Yes


 
FN Posted: Mon Aug 15 16:11:09 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>What if we made the image of the statue of responsibility in your likeness, Christophe? Would we get your nod of approval then?


Meh, you can raise a statue in my honour right now and people will say you were ahead of your time


 
Asswipe Posted: Mon Aug 15 20:14:04 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  before you bash this, praise this, or think anything about what Frankl meant with the idea, go read the book Man's Search for Meaning.


 
addi Posted: Mon Aug 15 22:28:00 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  That book had a profound effect on me. Read it in college and it changed the direction of my life.
No disrespect meant to Frankl. I just don't believe dissing the idea of a statue equates to dissing him. I wonder how many people in support of the idea even have a clue about who the man was, or what he left us in his writing.


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Tue Aug 16 13:21:46 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  The statue itself is frankly not very aesthetic.

Haven't read the book, and no disrespect to Frankl, but I'm going with Beetlebum and Addi on this one. Americans are irresponsible as is.

Rather, modern culture I find fairly irresponsible. Everyone just wants liberty and freedom, but none of the consequences or responsibilities.

Anyone wanna start a utopian community??


 
Asswipe Posted: Tue Aug 16 21:22:58 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  innocenceNonus said:
>The statue itself is frankly not very aesthetic.
>
>Haven't read the book, and no disrespect to Frankl, but I'm going with Beetlebum and Addi on this one. Americans are irresponsible as is.
>
>Rather, modern culture I find fairly irresponsible. Everyone just wants liberty and freedom, but none of the consequences or responsibilities.

I, umm, disagree. If I told my parents or grandparents that they were irresponsible for waking up every morning and going off to work to give themselves and their loved ones decent standards of living, they would slap me in the face. They don't rob, cheat or steal and I'd bet 95% of the population follow that route.

How are we irresponsible?


 
addi Posted: Tue Aug 16 22:07:55 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:

>How are we irresponsible?

I can't speak for Innocence, and my remarks on how irresponsible america is right now we're not aimed at your grandparents. I'm sure they're very responsible folks. In fact I could name a whole slew of people I know that are very responsible citizens. I was speaking in general terms, and in particular, in political terms.

In general I think Americans are extremely wasteful and irresponsible with our resources here. We don't think towards the future, but have a mentality that if we have our needs met at this moment then fuck the future. This includes our natural resources and our energy policies.
I think we (I include myself as well) are an extremely self centered society...a what's in it for me attitude...so we too often ignore the needs of those less fortunate, and tell ourselves their lot in life is all their own fault.
We are in general never satisfied with all we have, but are always looking to acquire the new and improved version of everything. We too often mistake owning things with being happy, and that never works.
I think we are making some grave mistakes in our political and foreign polices at the moment that will have long term negative effects for people all over the world (you know my political views so i won't belabor that point).
I could go on, but these are just some of the things about Americans in general that lead me to the conclusion that we are an irresponsible nation right now.

to whom much is given, much will be required


 
Kira Posted: Tue Aug 16 23:25:25 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Now I have cynicism poisoning.


 
Mouse Posted: Tue Aug 16 23:29:32 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Addi, your head is made of wood. And most everyone else's is too, excepting Mr. Wipe's.

Mouse


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Wed Aug 17 00:25:18 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:
>innocenceNonus said:
>>Rather, modern culture I find fairly irresponsible. Everyone just wants liberty and freedom, but none of the consequences or responsibilities.
>
>I, umm, disagree. If I told my parents or grandparents that they were irresponsible for waking up every morning and going off to work to give themselves and their loved ones decent standards of living, they would slap me in the face. They don't rob, cheat or steal and I'd bet 95% of the population follow that route.
>
>How are we irresponsible?

This is what I get when I generalize and don't specify. Apologies; I should have been clearer.

Basically, I wasn't talking about your parents or grandparents. Or my parents really. Or prolly many people's parents. Or grandparents.

Mostly, I was targeting the young adults. The youth. The people belonging to the "modern" pop culture of instant gratification and no consequences to poorly thought-out ideals.

And I call some of these people irresponsible because

1. they don't understand the whole "debt to society" ideal. like, what's with all of these privileged kids sitting on their bums all day and never doing one bit of community service? or when they completely ignore the idea of "social responsibility"? They have no respect for elders or for their peers. They fail to care about anything socially except for themselves and their own social standing. And yet, at the same time while being so selfish and irresponsible, they still want "equality" and "respect." Several kids today adore following and placing labels and at the same time [they LOVE the freedom in being able to do this and to change what groups they belong to], they hate being labeled themselves [hate the responsibility or poor implications that comes with a certain label]. It's a ridiculous double standard that's managed to manifest itself because parents are too busy working and spoiling their kids to smack them in the face and tell them, "Stop being selfish. Your social status isn't as important as how you treat your peers."

2. they have no idea of the value of money. Now, this isn't true for every kid, but it's true for many. and again, this relates back to the idea that parents are spoiling their kids. and i'm not just talking about the US here. My dad works in China and he comes home and tells me all the kids in China are getting fatter and fatter because the parents want to give their kids "chances" and "opportunities" and the "comforts of living a comfortable life." but at the same time, they don't teach the kids the value of money so the kids end up flaking out and while they study hard, they get out into the working world and have NO idea what's important. they know how the importance of tests and academic standings but they have no idea how to handle their money or their jobs. and many of them just flake out and don't take it seriously until they realize they're poor and have no money. the kids just want the freedom of spending without the responsibility or lessons of work.

3. they don't understand following authority. so many people just want to do their own thing and say what they want to say but at the same time they don't want the implications that come along with doing that. they want to speak out against their boss or teacher or what have you, but when they get punished or refused for it, these people get angry! they demand change or cry out in this "i'm being treated unfairly" sorta attitude. and yet, when the authority's there to teach them or help them with something they can't do, these people have NO problem with the authority figure. again, we see that many people just want the freedom of saying whatever they want without the responsibility of taking the consequences.

4. they don't understand the consequences for poor social choices. basically, i'm talking about all the people who do stupid things and then get upset at getting a consequence for it. like the person who sells drugs and then has to go to prison for it. and they get MAD about it. or the people who get into really bad sexual situations and then get angry even though they chose that path. there's this whole modern mentality of gratification now, ignore the later responsibilities. live in the moment. who cares what happens next? but then when the next moment and responsibilities come, these people get angry! they're mad that they other people are offended at them. they're upset that their reputation got ruined.

Again, I'm not saying everyone's like this. That was a poor generalization for the most part. But many young people are like this, and it's really disturbing. Actually, not just young people. I've seen adults acting this way too. And it's really alarming.

Also, just a side note, being irresponsible isn't the same as being a criminal or a bad person. Someone can be an honest person and still be irresponsible.

Take one of my friends. She's brilliant; really smart. Pretty funny, social. Never robbed anyone and never cheated anyone out of anything. Only real cheating she's done is copying an assignment or two.

And yet, at the same time, she drinks and is fairly sexually loose. And then she gets upset when people call her a slut. And she freaks out every time she thinks she has a chance of being pregnant or having an STD. Truth be told, she doesn't even think about those things before enjoying herself at the moment. But when the morning after comes, she starts freaking out and crying and getting upset.

That's what I meant by irresponsibility.


 
Asswipe Posted: Wed Aug 17 04:59:09 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  it's just a life, take it or leave it. enjoy it or bitch about it. everyone's ultimately in the same boat. i say for every stupid dumb ass you come across, cutting you off while driving, you find yourself doing the same to someone else. (but hey, maybe that's just my driving)

everyone doesn't see the big picture at times, and sometimes they slowly comes to see it, or they suddenly get a swift kick to the nuts in the form of a pregnant girlfriend, or a car accident or etc.

if you sit down and talk to every person out there, you'll be hard pressed to find a single person that will fit the categories you mentioned 50% of the time. more than likely you'll see a host of similarities between you and whoever and feel something for 'em. sure, stick someone in the heat of a situation with the heat of problems scratching at their scrotum, and they're not gonna react positively. stress's a bitch.


 
Asswipe Posted: Wed Aug 17 05:17:17 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>Asswipe said:
>
>>How are we irresponsible?

>
>In general I think Americans are extremely wasteful and irresponsible with our resources here. We don't think towards the future, but have a mentality that if we have our needs met at this moment then fuck the future. This includes our natural resources and our energy policies.

Well, let me think. I'm Joe, and I am an artist and i design advertisement pamphlets for a certain real estate company. While I make 3,000 dollars a month, i'd rather quit my job and focus my attention for developing a better hydrogen fuel cell. Is joe gonna make this time investment? If not, are you going to call him wasteful and irresponsible?

He knows, while gasoline may go up to 3-4 dollars a gallon, he's not going to go bankrupt paying this, not anytime soon. SO aside from our fuel supply not running dry anytime soon, don't you think some people might be working on a new power supply?

Out of hundreds of thousands of people, who graduated with physics degrees, studied the molecular make-up of a golf ball for 30 some odd years of their lives, maybe at least one or two or maybe 15,000 are trying to develop a replacement fuel for gasoline? They are.


>I think we (I include myself as well) are an extremely self centered society...a what's in it for me attitude...so we too often ignore the needs of those less fortunate, and tell ourselves their lot in life is all their own fault.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a person who, if you gave them an option of two houses to grow up in, and option A has a father who shot themself when you were 7 months old, along with a mother in and out of rehab; and option B had two parents, both of which are doctors, would choose option A. People can empathize. Will they always stop whenever they see a crack head walking up the street, with that mean little crackhead limp, and pity the man? Probably not.


>We are in general never satisfied with all we have, but are always looking to acquire the new and improved version of everything. We too often mistake owning things with being happy, and that never works.
>I think we are making some grave mistakes in our political and foreign polices at the moment that will have long term negative effects for people all over the world (you know my political views so i won't belabor that point).
>I could go on, but these are just some of the things about Americans in general that lead me to the conclusion that we are an irresponsible nation right now.
>
>to whom much is given, much will be required



 
addi Posted: Wed Aug 17 07:40:19 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:

>Well, let me think. I'm Joe, and I am an artist and i design advertisement pamphlets for a certain real estate company. While I make 3,000 dollars a month, i'd rather quit my job and focus my attention for developing a better hydrogen fuel cell. Is joe gonna make this time investment? If not, are you going to call him wasteful and irresponsible?


Joe probably doesn't have the mental capability to develop a better hydrogen fuel cell ( i don't), so no, he's not being irresponsible in that respect. But if Joe is not making any effert to do his part in being energy effient, e.g., driving a car that gets 11 miles to the gallon, doesn't recycle, keeps water running unnecessesarily, keeps lights on in rooms he's not using, throws his McDonalds trash out the car window, uses pesticide spraying all over his lawn that runs off into the local lake, etc, etc..., then I would call him irresponsible with his use of our resources.
If you don't think there aren't millions of Americans out there doing that then you're not living in my world...and when you just think of Joe it's not that big of a deal, but when you add in all the Americans doing this it's a significant amount of waste and pollution.

If you're trying to argue that we're an environmentaly responsible nation you need to do better than that.

I can tackle our political and social irresponsibility on some other post


 
addi Posted: Wed Aug 17 07:43:11 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Mouse said:
>Addi, your head is made of wood.

What kind of wood exactly? Something nice like black walnut or something lame like balsa wood?


 
Zacq Posted: Wed Aug 17 09:22:29 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Has no one but me watched the new episodes of Martha Stewart!



Yeah, I didn't read the thread. I admit it.


 
Asswipe Posted: Wed Aug 17 14:39:26 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>Asswipe said:
>
>>Well, let me think. I'm Joe, and I am an artist and i design advertisement pamphlets for a certain real estate company. While I make 3,000 dollars a month, i'd rather quit my job and focus my attention for developing a better hydrogen fuel cell. Is joe gonna make this time investment? If not, are you going to call him wasteful and irresponsible?
>
>
>Joe probably doesn't have the mental capability to develop a better hydrogen fuel cell ( i don't), so no, he's not being irresponsible in that respect. But if Joe is not making any effert to do his part in being energy effient, e.g., driving a car that gets 11 miles to the gallon, doesn't recycle, keeps water running unnecessesarily, keeps lights on in rooms he's not using, throws his McDonalds trash out the car window, uses pesticide spraying all over his lawn that runs off into the local lake, etc, etc..., then I would call him irresponsible with his use of our resources.
>If you don't think there aren't millions of Americans out there doing that then you're not living in my world...and when you just think of Joe it's not that big of a deal, but when you add in all the Americans doing this it's a significant amount of waste and pollution.

>
>If you're trying to argue that we're an environmentaly responsible nation you need to do better than that.

oh, right, LITTER. That's huge. Sorry, when I read your initial response to this question I thought you had larger issues in mind than throwing garbage out of a car window and, *snicker*, forgetting to turn off the living room light--Mom.

>
>I can tackle our political and social irresponsibility on some other post


 
addi Posted: Wed Aug 17 15:34:50 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:

>oh, right, LITTER. That's huge.

Well gosh, Ass. I expect that kind of response from...well, nevermind any names.

You'll notice that was just one, among several of the things I included, it wasn't my main point. Pulling out one item and attacking me on that alone is kind of a Bill O'Reilly tactic.
And trivializing how much damage is done by our consumer society and the waste it generates is kinda ignorant anyway. From millions of people trashing our hiways and city streets to medical waste and trash showing up in our water, to landfills full of nonbiodegradible containers..including toxic chemicals seeping into our groundwater. Our trash doesn't just magically dissapear and Americans generate a lot of it. Littering is just aspect of the problem.

If you just want to argue for arguing sake find some other putz. If you want to challenge something I've written (and I've written a lot on GT that could be challenged) at least take it to me and make a valid rebuttal. This was too easy.



 
innocenceNonus Posted: Wed Aug 17 16:26:13 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:
>it's just a life, take it or leave it. enjoy it or bitch about it. everyone's ultimately in the same boat. i say for every stupid dumb ass you come across, cutting you off while driving, you find yourself doing the same to someone else. (but hey, maybe that's just my driving)
>
>everyone doesn't see the big picture at times, and sometimes they slowly comes to see it, or they suddenly get a swift kick to the nuts in the form of a pregnant girlfriend, or a car accident or etc.
>
>if you sit down and talk to every person out there, you'll be hard pressed to find a single person that will fit the categories you mentioned 50% of the time. more than likely you'll see a host of similarities between you and whoever and feel something for 'em. sure, stick someone in the heat of a situation with the heat of problems scratching at their scrotum, and they're not gonna react positively. stress's a bitch.

Eh, true enough, I guess. But I dunno. I'm a big believer in always changing and trying to get closer to the goal of a better world for everyone. And I think learning that liberty comes with responsibility is a big part of it. Unfortunately, not everyone sees it this way.

Ehhhhhhhh. I like pie.


 
Asswipe Posted: Wed Aug 17 17:43:19 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>Asswipe said:
>
>>oh, right, LITTER. That's huge.
>
>Well gosh, Ass. I expect that kind of response from...well, nevermind any names.

it's far too easy to get under your skin, man. relax a bit.

>
>You'll notice that was just one, among several of the things I included, it wasn't my main point. Pulling out one item and attacking me on that alone is kind of a Bill O'Reilly tactic.

>And trivializing how much damage is done by our consumer society and the waste it generates is kinda ignorant anyway. From millions of people trashing our hiways and city streets to medical waste and trash showing up in our water, to landfills full of nonbiodegradible containers..including toxic chemicals seeping into our groundwater. Our trash doesn't just magically dissapear and Americans generate a lot of it. Littering is just aspect of the problem.

well, my attitude stands the same for all of the items which you brought up. While waste does often get discarded in a lazy manner, this also serves to giving others a purpose and job by creating a market for disposing all of this stuff, purifying water, etc. etc. etc. People don't want to use less, they want a larger supply. Call it greed, call it wanting comfort, but people will also work hard to accomplish this, or pay big bucks so some one else will. Similarly, they know the fuel consumption of SUVs the instant they look into buying them, as it says the highway mileage and city mileage in big fat black letters right on the sale ticket. And again, if all of this oil consumption eventually leads to an oil draught, and the demand for an alternate energy source grows to the size of your erection whenever you read a female-GTers post, then someone will develop a method and make billions of dollars. Good for them.

Does anyone know how far along the iraqi oil companies are in their methods of sapping all of the black gold from the earth? I mean, are the rising oil prices directly being fueled into the IRaqi economy?


>
>If you just want to argue for arguing sake find some other putz. If you want to challenge something I've written (and I've written a lot on GT that could be challenged) at least take it to me and make a valid rebuttal. This was too easy.

you're sitting here talking like we're debating a two sided argument on abortion or the existance of god or whatever. Grow up. "This was too easy." You sound like you just beat up a four year old and are in the center of yoru ring pumping your arms into the air over it.

There's no debate or argument going on. I simply asked you why you consider Americans to be irresponsible, call it the socratic method, and, after seeing your answer, i don't think you're warranted in calling Americans irresponsible, for reasons I've already given.


 
Asswipe Posted: Wed Aug 17 17:46:03 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  heh, and apologies for the low blow. Tit for tat, as they say, but i feel bad stooping.


 
addi Posted: Wed Aug 17 18:12:16 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:

>it's far too easy to get under your skin, man. relax a bit.

lol
if anything I'm too relaxed, Ass, but excuse me while i get my panties out of a bunch...ahhhh, much better. I don't have the benefit of hearing your voice inflection and other things when you type out a response, so I took it as I read it. You made it clear that you thought littering was hardly an good reason so i responded to that.


>well, my attitude stands the same for all of the items which you brought up. While waste does often get discarded in a lazy manner, this also serves to giving others a purpose and job by creating a market for disposing all of this stuff,

That's like justifing having an epidemic of AIDS in the world...cuz it creates jobs in pharmasutical research companies and more doctors and hospital staff. Don't buy it.


>you're sitting here talking like we're debating a two sided argument on abortion or the existance of god or whatever. Grow up.

I take the stewartship of my planet quite seriously, Ass. I can't speak for you, but to me it's just as important of an issue as abortion....And I've been growing up my whole life...I'm tired of it :)

"This was too easy." You sound like you just beat up a four year old and are in the center of yoru ring pumping your arms into the air over it.

I was just disappointed in your response. Maybe I hold your opinion in too high of esteem..maybe I'm guilty of that. You response sounded like it came out of a 4 years old mouth....and this one wasn't much better.

>There's no debate or argument going on. I simply asked you why you consider Americans to be irresponsible, call it the socratic method, and, after seeing your answer, i don't think you're warranted in calling Americans irresponsible, for reasons I've already given.

you haven't given me diddley squat as far as i'm concerned about how americans can't be considered irresponsible in our resourse use and management over the past few decades. If you did/do I would have the balls to tell you you had a valid point.

*I'm not pissed at you, Ass, even if you don't give a damn either way. Just having a spirited debate...which has been sorely lacking here lately with Hifs absence
peace


 
addi Posted: Wed Aug 17 19:31:56 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:
>heh, and apologies for the low blow. Tit for tat, as they say, but i feel bad stooping.

so do I.
kisses, but no tongues, dude. I have my reputation to think about.

: )


 
Asswipe Posted: Fri Aug 19 17:45:16 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>Asswipe said:
>
>>it's far too easy to get under your skin, man. relax a bit.
>
>lol
>if anything I'm too relaxed, Ass, but excuse me while i get my panties out of a bunch...ahhhh, much better. I don't have the benefit of hearing your voice inflection and other things when you type out a response, so I took it as I read it. You made it clear that you thought littering was hardly an good reason so i responded to that.
>
>
>>well, my attitude stands the same for all of the items which you brought up. While waste does often get discarded in a lazy manner, this also serves to giving others a purpose and job by creating a market for disposing all of this stuff,
>
>That's like justifing having an epidemic of AIDS in the world...cuz it creates jobs in pharmasutical research companies and more doctors and hospital staff. Don't buy it.

i misappropriately structered that paragraph. I did not intend to use the example as justification for all of the evils of the world--as in, heroes are only born in the face of evils; I meant it just as an aside.

>
>
>>you're sitting here talking like we're debating a two sided argument on abortion or the existance of god or whatever. Grow up.
>
>I take the stewartship of my planet quite seriously, Ass. I can't speak for you, but to me it's just as important of an issue as abortion....And I've been growing up my whole life...I'm tired of it :)

That's wonderful, and i hope you give countless hours a week to the clean up of the neighborhood around you, and picket for harsher laws regarding enviromental protection.

>
> "This was too easy." You sound like you just beat up a four year old and are in the center of yoru ring pumping your arms into the air over it.
>
>I was just disappointed in your response. Maybe I hold your opinion in too high of esteem..maybe I'm guilty of that. You response sounded like it came out of a 4 years old mouth....and this one wasn't much better.

my first response was a lot better the first time, when i just laughed at you, as opposed to attempting to have a discussion.

>
>>There's no debate or argument going on. I simply asked you why you consider Americans to be irresponsible, call it the socratic method, and, after seeing your answer, i don't think you're warranted in calling Americans irresponsible, for reasons I've already given.
>
>you haven't given me diddley squat as far as i'm concerned about how americans can't be considered irresponsible in our resourse use and management over the past few decades. If you did/do I would have the balls to tell you you had a valid point.

I suppose it's besides the original point whether I can prove to you that we have been responsible in our use of resource since that's not the focus of this thread. Go craft yourself a "statue of *environmental* irresponsibility" if you really think it's warranted, since that's what you're arguing for. the statue of responsiblity, the original topic of the thread, represents an ideal far loftier than an irresponsible neighbor, or a million, dumping motor oil into their local river. Talk about young mortality rates, talk about high unemployment, talk about bad parenting, high school drop out rates, spousal/child abuse, murder rates, talk about any issues out there which people are responsible for and would need to be weighed in deciding whether people are inherently responsible or irresponsible.

While these issues do exist, as do the ones you griped about, far more people exist on the positive end of the scale than the "irresponsible" ones. If you can walk and drive all over your town and know all of the friends you do, you should know this, unless you live in a far different world than i do.

>
>*I'm not pissed at you, Ass, even if you don't give a damn either way. Just having a spirited debate...which has been sorely lacking here lately with Hifs absence
>peace

right, gotta love debates that boil down to two people regurgitating binomial jargon and then settling with, "those are just lies that your party made up."


 
addi Posted: Fri Aug 19 21:03:13 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  go have a drink..get layed, smoke something, Ass. I think you need it


 
ifihadahif Posted: Fri Aug 19 21:29:00 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  "regurgitating binomial jargon"
God I love this language !


 
Asswipe Posted: Sun Aug 21 04:42:24 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Boom, boom.

To quote myself:

my first response was a lot better, when i just laughed at you, as opposed to attempting to have a discussion.


 
addi Posted: Sun Aug 21 08:33:58 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Ahhhh...yes. When you have little but sarcasm and a few immpressive words to defend your position with I agree that the safest course to save face is to respond with a laugh, and forego attempts to justify your position with sound reasoning.
That just leads to using more parts of your brain, and that can't be a good thing.






 
Asswipe Posted: Sun Aug 21 21:23:00 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>Ahhhh...yes. When you have little but sarcasm and a few immpressive words to defend your position with I agree that the safest course to save face is to respond with a laugh, and forego attempts to justify your position with sound reasoning.
>That just leads to using more parts of your brain, and that can't be a good thing.
>
>
>
>

i'm responding, as opposed to better judgement, mostly to save face and see if anyone else will join in this discussion.

you argued for a "statue of irresponsibility" as opposed to the opposite for the sole reasons that you dislike the current party in command as well as stating a few instances of poor resource management.

correct?

our frame of thinking has little to do with whether the statue should be created or not, but stems from the discussion on whether we, the people of the United States are indeed a responsible group.

I say yes; due to our superb standard of living; due to the far majority of the nation working every single day to care for themselves and their family; due to the extremely low crime rate; due to the free education system; due to the people working hard every single day to improve the system, society and everyone's daily life, all besides the point of whether they agree or disagree with the government's foreign policy decisions and other problems they may see but do not have the will/experience to personally fight.

My father's a chiropractor who hasn't raised his wages in 15 years because he wants to make his practice available to most people out there.

His girlfriend's a therapist dealing with all sorts of fucked up people in efforts to show them better, happier ways of getting along in society.

My mom's an occupational therapist who helps design better programs for helping the elderly, and children with various disabilities get along.

I can go on and list every single person I know and the ways they contribute something positive to this country's way of life.

And you say no because you don't like the government and feel that a lot goes to waste. How can you call that "sound reasoning", focusing solely on such a small picture of what encompasses "responsibility"? That's like seeing a rainbow and saying it's only red while ignoring the six other colors in there.

i do not disagree with the points you brought up, as i've said, red is red, but to declare the whole lot of the nation as irresponsible is simply ignoring so much more going on out there.

oh, and i can't believe what a vile person you can be.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun Aug 21 22:21:00 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  He can be pretty bitchy from time to time can't he ?


 
addi Posted: Sun Aug 21 22:23:01 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:


>you argued for a "statue of irresponsibility" as opposed to the opposite for the sole reasons that you dislike the current party in command as well as stating a few instances of poor resource management.


my argueing against erecting a statue of responsibilty has little to do with the current adminstration..I thought we were an irresponsible nation in many respects when Clinton was in power.


>I say yes; due to our superb standard of living; due to the far majority of the nation working every single day to care for themselves and their family; due to the extremely low crime rate; due to the free education system;


Free education system?! what America are you living in? Yes, K-12 in public schools, many of which are substandard (I taught in them), and college tuition fees going throught the fucking roof! Free my ass!... and a 4 year degree gives you diddley squat these days so better count on some type of graduate school education loans as well. Do you have a clue about how many students graduate from college facing loan paybacks of $100,000 or more?

>I can go on and list every single person I know and the ways they contribute something positive to this country's way of life.

Get off the family crap, Ass. I understand how responsible your grandparents are, and your dad and mom and relatives and your dog. If I had personally pointed them out as irresponsible earlier you'd have a valid point.

My view of America as a whole as being an irresponsible nation boils down to it being nothing more than my opinion. I could list a bunch of statistics supporting my view on this topic, or name 20 irresponsible people i know and still couldn't say that PROVES I'm right.
I just happen to believe that there are a lot of responsible citizens out there (apparantly you're related to most of them), but there are also millions of irresponsible citizens here as well. The thought of raising a statue to bask in the glory of our responsibility seems a bit contrived to me. The statue of Liberty wasn't erected by American citizens. It was a gift from the french government.
A responsible action would be to take the tens of thousands of dollars an effort like that may cost and give it instead to some needy students that couldn't afford our "free" education otherwise.


>oh, and i can't believe what a vile person you can be.

You of all posters here calling me vile makes me chuckle a bit. Look over the content of all your posts on GT sometime when you have a few hours to kill, Asswipe. It will be an education for you...and free to boot.

But to be totally frank there is that side to me. I admit it. I have my good and nasty sides. I apologize if i gave you the false impression that i was always angelic.




 



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