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Silentmind Posted: Sat Aug 27 14:03:43 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  "The military has gained free access to high schools as well, under a little-known clause in the No Child Left Behind Act. Nestled among florid tributes to education reform and clunky legalese is a brief passage stating that all public schools are required to share students' names, addresses and telephone numbers with recruiters."

Well, so much for education.


 
Mesh Posted: Sat Aug 27 14:31:55 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I had heard something about that. I'm not quite sure about what I think of it. On the one hand, right now its still an all volunteer army and no one can force students to join. Even if the recruiter has students information, its not like anyone puts a gun to the youngsters head and forces them to join.


On the other hand, lots of younger people, especially ones who feel lost, can be very easily influenced and getting constant barrages of phone calls and pamphlets could sway them towards joining something that once they get into it they may realize its not what they thought and regret it.


Blah blah blah I'm not good at putting thoughts into words. I know what I want to say but I have a real hard time communicating it which is why I tend to stay out of debates.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sat Aug 27 15:14:26 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I don't have a problem with the military being able to recruit at public schools. Why shouldn't they
be able to ?


 
Ed Posted: Sat Aug 27 15:46:30 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>Why shouldn't they be able to ?

Maybe because they harrass me and make me late for class?


 
libra Posted: Sat Aug 27 15:49:29 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Ed said:
>ifihadahif said:
>>Why shouldn't they be able to ?
>
>Maybe because they harrass me and make me late for class?

haha, ditto. I hated when they came around my school to talk at lunchtime. They didn't really approach me and my female friends often...they knew who to target...you saw them walking towards the slightly lonely boys in groups that weren't part of the 'popular' crowd.




 
FN Posted: Sat Aug 27 15:54:19 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  So what you're saying is that Iraq is dotted with nerds?


 
zander83 Posted: Sat Aug 27 15:59:15 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  As long as they're recruiting adults i.e. over-18 or whatever the limit is

i don't see how army recruiting is any different then universities recruiting athletes/nerd etc. People are constantly trying to recruit teens to do crap... its not like the army is doing something radical here... id rather they recruit then do forced conscription...

on the subject of recruitment anyone remember the line from buffalo soldiers about recruitment:
"... after all who wants to join the losing team"




wow... my english teacher is probably crying at my lack of vocabulary... i used the same word almost 10 times in a small blurb...


 
DanSRose Posted: Sat Aug 27 17:52:34 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>Why shouldn't they be able to ?

Because it has nothing to do with education. Diversity does. As does math, science, history, language, and language arts. Physical fitness promotes personal growth and health with learning teamwork. There is nothing more inspiring for a child than giving them paint, clay, or an oboe and telling them you can create (it doesn't _have_ to be an oboe; oboe is just a fun word to say, oboe oboe oboe).
In their teenage years, when child become adolescents and are shifting between being lost and being led around by various hormones (or perfumes), telling them "Join us and we'll take care of you and pay you and you'll get all sorts of benefits" without mentioning the fact that they'll have to learn to kill, well, that's not an army you defending this nation. I've seen recruiters do that, and I've seen them change them topic of conversation when the idea of fighting and war comes along.


 
libra Posted: Sat Aug 27 20:53:35 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>So what you're saying is that Iraq is dotted with nerds?

hehe.

no, it's not the nerds so much as just so-called 'misfits.' Usually the cowboy types or the ones that liked to work on their cars a lot. Things like that.


 
Mesh Posted: Sat Aug 27 21:18:46 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Misfits for sure.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sat Aug 27 21:57:43 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  DanSRose said:
>ifihadahif said:
>>Why shouldn't they be able to ?
>
>Because it has nothing to do with education. Diversity does. As does math, science, history, language, and language arts. Physical fitness promotes personal growth and health with learning teamwork. There is nothing more inspiring for a child than giving them paint, clay, or an oboe and telling them you can create (it doesn't _have_ to be an oboe; oboe is just a fun word to say, oboe oboe oboe).
>In their teenage years, when child become adolescents and are shifting between being lost and being led around by various hormones (or perfumes), telling them "Join us and we'll take care of you and pay you and you'll get all sorts of benefits" without mentioning the fact that they'll have to learn to kill, well, that's not an army you defending this nation. I've seen recruiters do that, and I've seen them change them topic of conversation when the idea of fighting and war comes along.
>
I spent 4 years in the military and never learned how to kill.
And it has as much to do with education as any corporated entity looking to recruit employees. It has to with "what are you going to do after school" ?
And the military is a good option for a lot of us.
And since the federal government is paying for said education and providing a safe place for us to live, then they should be able to recruit there.
They don't force you to talk to them.
And no, they don't just target the nerds and unpopular guys, as if they can spot them just by looking around, that's just bullshit.
Reminds me of a bumper sticker I once saw - "If you can read this, thank a teacher, If you are reading it in English, thank a solder".


 
zander83 Posted: Sat Aug 27 22:06:34 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  "If you can read this, thank a teacher, If you are reading it in English, thank a solder".


lets not go crazy... depending on the war your referring to we owe the english thing to conscripted men, veterans, but i don't think they consider themselves soldiers... i get the point your making though don't worry, just wondering on how conscripted men view themselves... as soldiers or not?? uhm...


 
Silentmind Posted: Sat Aug 27 22:09:10 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
 
>Reminds me of a bumper sticker I once saw - "If you can read this, thank a teacher, If you are reading it in English, thank a solder".


It hurts me to read that. Japan didn't ahve the strength to invade America, and Hitler only had intrest in continental Europe. America was safe, we'd be speaking english, even in the metaphorical sense.


 
Zacq Posted: Sat Aug 27 22:12:06 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Even comments to British people like 'You'd be speaking German if it weren't for us (Americans)' don't make sense because historians don't believe Hitler would have any interest in making the English speak German.


 
DanSRose Posted: Sat Aug 27 22:13:45 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  No, no you didn't.
But that is what the recruiters are needing now. They are needing fresh, young people to be sent to Afghanistan and Iraq, specifically focusing with the Army and Marines.
My cousin is in the Navy; he's focusing on engineering. A good number of my college friends were in the Air Force ROTC, now most of them are serving/training somewhere. Even the ones focusing in intelligence know that when they are serving and when they are active, the skills, methods, and tools they use, even for defense, will have the ultimate goal of eliminating the enemy, even when the addenum of "with as little colateral damage as possible" there.

The idea of a volunteer army is to be volunteer. That goal is not to be reached by pressuring adolescents, whatever their state of mind. It should not be sold, like Nike or Coke, with "Join the Marines! Fight Lava Monsters!" or "Join the Air Force! We Listen to Godsmack!"

The purpose of a state paid education system is that there are no loopholes or catches. You go to school to go to school. You learn, and are taught about all the good things and the bad things and the things that just are. You learn about society and drugs, alcohol, sex, and how to do things, like socialize.


 
Zacq Posted: Sat Aug 27 22:47:13 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I thought Godsmack was Coast Guard.. maybe both...


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun Aug 28 00:12:17 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  DanSRose said:
>>
> You learn about society and drugs, alcohol, sex, and how to do things, like socialize.
>
And without our military, how much of this do you think you would be able to do ?


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun Aug 28 00:13:29 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Silentmind said:
>
>>Reminds me of a bumper sticker I once saw - "If you can read this, thank a teacher, If you are reading it in English, thank a solder".
>
>
>It hurts me to read that. Japan didn't ahve the strength to invade America, and Hitler only had intrest in continental Europe. America was safe, we'd be speaking english, even in the metaphorical sense.
>
Yeah right, Japan didn't attack us, and Hitler was gonna stop when he got England.


 
DanSRose Posted: Sun Aug 28 00:30:08 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>And without our military, how much of this do you think you would be able to do?

And if toenail clippings were jellybeans, we'd all bite our nails. What does that have to with going to school and doin' some booklearnin' and people learning, or anything directly attached to school at all?


 
Silentmind Posted: Sun Aug 28 01:14:57 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>Silentmind said:
>>
>>>Reminds me of a bumper sticker I once saw - "If you can read this, thank a teacher, If you are reading it in English, thank a solder".
>>
>>
>>It hurts me to read that. Japan didn't ahve the strength to invade America, and Hitler only had intrest in continental Europe. America was safe, we'd be speaking english, even in the metaphorical sense.
>>
>Yeah right, Japan didn't attack us, and Hitler was gonna stop when he got England.

I never disputed that Japan attacked you. I am disputing the fact that they would have invaded you. They wanted an island barrier and control over Asia. Hitler couldn't have massed an army to invade America. He was interested in Europe. Thats the problem, too many Americans think that the entire war would have finished with them. Japan/Germany invading from the seas. Neither of those nations had direct intrest in controlling America. Hell, Hitler held out on a sea-borne invasion of England, as he wanted peace with them.


 
kurohyou Posted: Sun Aug 28 01:17:12 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I don't see a big problem with the military recruiting in High Schools, to me it seems a kin to college sports scouting for talented athletes. I think that its a good thing that young kids have all the the options available to them as they head out in the world. There are a large number of people who like the life of a solider, who thrive in the strict regiment of a military. This may give them the chance to see a door open to them which may not have otherwise been open before.

I think because of the war in Iraq and all the other turmoil in the world, being in the military is not as appealing of an option as it was when I was in high school. Ten years ago it was a great way to get your college paid for, you joined up, put in four years and then came home. Got to travel around, and it was pretty safe for the most part. I had a good friend who decieded to stay in for another four years after his first four because he enjoyed it. Then this whole thing In Afganistan, and Iraq, and he was deployed after he had already finshed.

Being in the military is not a bad thing. Its not for everyone, but it might be for some. I don't have a problem with recruitment per se. Of course I haven't run into one for 10 years so i have a fair amount of distance on this which may be the reason for my stance. If I were being "harassed" by them everyday, that would probably get pretty old, pretty fast. But the ones I recall weren't harassing, they were more like salesmen. I just didn't buy what they were selling, some guys I know did, and it worked for them.

For what it's worth...


 
beetlebum Posted: Sun Aug 28 03:45:49 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I think i got a call from a recruiter twice, and he was easy to get off of the phone after I said I really wasn't interested. I think I'd prefer recruitment to a draft, and they have to start somewhere other than a street corner... so I guess I don't have a problem with it. Perhaps, though, this is because all of the people I know in Iraq or have died in Iraq joined voluntarily without an aggressive recruiter involved.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun Aug 28 08:17:23 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  DanSRose said:
>ifihadahif said:
>>And without our military, how much of this do you think you would be able to do?
>
>And if toenail clippings were jellybeans, we'd all bite our nails. What does that have to with going to school and doin' some booklearnin' and people learning, or anything directly attached to school at all?
>
So you don't think that having recruiters of any sort to help you make that decision as to what you might be doing after you are finished with school?
The military does offer excellent education befefits as well.



 
FN Posted: Sun Aug 28 08:29:03 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  A little comment on the whole Hitler thing:

Hitler was against war with England, and only wanted to go to war with them when he saw no other option (not that this justifies him, i'm just saying that he didn't seem to be planning on taking the entire world). At the beginning he even tried to get England as an ally.

From everything I have read and seen about WWII, which would be quite a lot, Hitler never made any indication that he wanted to invade America. He was after Europe and he wanted to break Russia. And even if he had wanted to, after the many losses that he had sustained already in Europe, the logistics and possibility of an invasion of America would simply have been impossible as he was streched too much already.

Same goes for Japan, as far as I know, though I don't know as much about their side of the war as I know about the German/American part.


 
addi Posted: Sun Aug 28 09:49:21 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  My nephew was a recruiter for the Marines in Carolina for a while. I don't really have a problem with them in high schools, as long as they don't harrass students and are honest in what they tell prospective recruits. The recorded tapes that i heard a few months ago of some recruiters telling students out and out lies needs to stop though. I actually feel a tad bit sorry for the guys because the growing unpopularity of this war is making it extra difficult for them to meet their quotas each month. Bush is making them meet high goals with one hand tied behind their back.
I liked the idea i heard on the radio the other day. Let the recruiters start setting up tables outside the mega-churchs across the country. These, after all, are where all the fanatic supporters of Dubya congregate to praise their white Jesus each week, and denounce the ungodly and unpatriotic liberals from behind the pulpit. Let these parents, who are in full support of this war, allow their teen children to listen to an inspiring sermon, and then stand in line to hear a recruitmeent pitch afterwards. It's a gold mine for potential recruits : )



 
FN Posted: Sun Aug 28 09:53:02 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Something I always wondered about is this:

Wasn't jesus a camel fucker, and because of that, aren't the most fanatic republicans worshipping that which they are fighting?


 
addi Posted: Sun Aug 28 10:32:36 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:

>Wasn't jesus a camel fucker,

Heresy!!!
No, everyone knows Jesus was as white as white can be, with pale skin, long curly brown hair (just like mine), and very white teeth. He also had a very macho build, and could have been a linebacker for America's team, the Dallas Cowboys. I've seen pictures of him in my mother's living room so I know.

: )


 
DanSRose Posted: Sun Aug 28 10:47:06 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>So you don't think that having recruiters of any sort to help you make that decision as to what you might be doing after you are finished with school?
>The military does offer excellent education befefits as well.

But they are lying, as addi said and is being reported. They are lying and their (and your) attendence is required. If they are option, fine. Let them go to the college and job fairs and mail their info to you like any other option. It is law that schools will be withheld funding if they refuse military recruiters. With how much our schools are troubled, you think more restrictions are good, with 10 year old textbooks, class sizes that reach or break the limit, not enough buildings or teachers, lack art and music, etc.
I like the military. I like the people who are in it and what it has to offer. I don't like it when it's forced down children's throats. That "Aid Cut-off" Line is in No Child Left Behind, and also requires schools to give contact info to recruiters for all their students, or "No Money for you".


And Christophe: From what I've read, the attacks on Pearl Harbor were first strike, but with goal to cripple U.S. interference in the Pacific from Japan's conquering of that Ocean.
Also, Jesus was a Jewish cartpenter. He didn't have much to fuck camels, with all the desert wandering and preaching and handling of the wood (I couldn't help that one slide).


 
Zacq Posted: Sun Aug 28 10:51:07 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  If Jesus were born today, the U.S. would call him an Arab radical and assassinate him. It's been two thousand years, and Bush and many other religious Americans have advanced nowhere.


 
Mesh Posted: Sun Aug 28 10:57:42 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1423268


LOL


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun Aug 28 11:47:49 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  DanSRose said:
>
>But they are lying, as addi said and is being reported. They are lying and their (and your) attendence is required. If they are option, fine. Let them go to the college and job fairs and mail their info to you like any other option. It is law that schools will be withheld funding if they refuse military recruiters. With how much our schools are troubled, you think more restrictions are good, with 10 year old textbooks, class sizes that reach or break the limit, not enough buildings or teachers, lack art and music, etc.
>I like the military. I like the people who are in it and what it has to offer. I don't like it when it's forced down children's throats. That "Aid Cut-off" Line is in No Child Left Behind, and also requires schools to give contact info to recruiters for all their students, or "No Money for you".
>
So, are we to assume that all of them are lying and that the students are forced to speak with them ?




 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun Aug 28 11:50:27 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Zacq said:
>If Jesus were born today, the U.S. would call him an Arab radical and assassinate him. It's been two thousand years, and Bush and many other religious Americans have advanced nowhere.
>
Jesus was a capricorn
He ate organic food
He believed in love and peace
And never wore no shoes

Long hair, beard and sandles
And a funky bunch of friends
Reckon we’d just nail him up
If he came down again

Chorus:
’cause everybody’s gotta have somebody to look down on
Who they can feel better than at any time they please
Someone doin’ somethin’ dirty decent folks can frown on
If you can’t find nobody else, then help yourself to me

Eggheads cussing rednecks cussing
Hippies for their hair
Others laugh at straights who laugh at
Freaks who laugh at squares

Some folks hate the whites
Who hate the blacks who hate the klan
Most of us hate anything that
We don’t understand

Chorus



 
Zacq Posted: Sun Aug 28 11:51:09 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  http://www.avolites.org.uk/jokes/nationality.htm


 
FN Posted: Sun Aug 28 12:26:49 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Well, one thing is certain, he was an Arab, right?


 
DanSRose Posted: Sun Aug 28 12:39:47 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Mmmmmm, no. Not really. He was of the tribe of Judah. He looks Arab, by today's standards, but also the ancient Greeks don't look anything Greeks living in the modern state of Greece. There has been 2000 years of genetic drift and bottlenosing, so not really.

But I bet he could party. Buddhists, or those who think like buddhists, also throw the best shindigs.


 
FN Posted: Sun Aug 28 13:06:23 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  2000 years are not even a blip on a genetic radar as far as I know...

So this tribe of Judah, they were arabs, right?

lol


 
DanSRose Posted: Sun Aug 28 14:57:11 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  *zing!* That was pretty funny

No, 2000 years means zilch if, say, we wanted gills. But it could mean a bit if we talk about it terms of skin melanin content and localizing minor features in certain groups. feh


 
zander83 Posted: Sun Aug 28 22:09:08 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  now now... we all know jesus was white... and a republican just read this article for a transcript of his recent speech

http://slate.msn.com/id/2124768/?nav=fo


 
Mesh Posted: Mon Aug 29 10:20:46 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Unrelated, but good to have you back posting regularly zander.


 
addi Posted: Mon Aug 29 11:19:12 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  zander83 said:

>http://slate.msn.com/id/2124768/?nav=fo

Thanks, zander. I needed a smile on my face on a dreary Monday morn.
The sad thing is some would read that and actually believe that's what Christ would say
"Yeah, God's on our side!"


 
Ahriman Posted: Tue Aug 30 13:43:35 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  just check out the avatar


 



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