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Question of morals!
choke Posted: Wed Oct 5 21:43:51 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Ok I have to judge people's moral developemental stages by their responses to a situation for psychology...

I need your basic answer (yes/no), your sex, your age, and your reasoning behind your answer

Terrorists have kidnapped you and 30 other people. One of the 31 kidnapped has the option of being enslaved by the terrorists in order to save everyone else's lives. Would you volunteer? Why or why not?

Thanks guys.


 
Kira Posted: Wed Oct 5 22:05:43 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Female.

Twenty-two.

Yes - was my immediate response. Yes, I would volunteer, of course. So that's my split second answer. If the terrorists gave us a few minutes to think about it? Better everyone live, including me with the hope of escape, than everyone die.


 
Asswipe Posted: Wed Oct 5 22:09:14 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  i'd volunteer kira. but i'd be part of the special ops task force sent in to rescue her. my reasoning? kira said she could have hope of rescue while i'm not sure if i or the other 29 people could remain hopeful. so she can do it.

male. 22


 
sry_not4sale Posted: Wed Oct 5 22:16:05 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Male, 19.

First thought, Hell no! Then my masculine side takes over, spy... commandos... save the day... I'M YOUR MAN *beats chest*


 
Posted: Wed Oct 5 22:28:30 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  male, 21
absolutely not.

(I have a feeling that your psych class will say that this places me in a lower class of moral development. If this is the case, I've got a few thousand pages of Nietzsche, Kant, JL Mackie and Sartre for your class to read)


 
Posted: Wed Oct 5 22:31:48 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  choke said:

>and your reasoning behind your answer

missed that bit, sorry

I have no obligation to any of these other people. My only obligation as an individual is to myself and to anybody I've become endebted to. Assuming these people don't fit that last quality, why would I want to be enslaved by anybody, terrorists or otherwise?

Frankly, I don't. Frankly, I would rather watch a stranger suffer in a cage than be the man to look at 30 strangers from inside my own cage, suffering.


 
addi Posted: Wed Oct 5 22:33:46 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  *Yes I would. I wouldn't like it, but I think I'd do it...maybe because I've lived a good long while already here. Maybe because I think I would have a hard time living with myself if I refused help.

Male
Hmm...over 30 (leave it at that)


*Exception: If I discovered the other kidnapped people were all republicans I probably wouldn't
: )




 
libra Posted: Wed Oct 5 23:56:34 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  No.

1. I would be scared as hell of what they might do to me.
2. They're not likely to actually end up killing 30 people...that'd make a lot of other people outraged and could cause problems...therefore, I think we'd have a better chance as a group than if they just had me.

Female, 19 (almost 20)

*the answer would most likely change if the people there were relatives or loved ones.


 
Mesh Posted: Thu Oct 6 02:05:38 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Male 23
In short, no.

None of those people are willing to do the same to save me and the rest. I'll take my chance that we all die, I won't sacrifice myself for people I don't know and don't care to know.


As libra said though, if you throw loved ones into the situation matters would be different. I would do it, but only to save those specific people I love, not for the other people. The other people being saved would just be concomitant.






 
Mesh Posted: Thu Oct 6 02:12:07 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Hmmm, thinking about it, if there were any young children I would definately have to reconsider.


If its all adults though, definately let them(and myself) die.


 
FN Posted: Thu Oct 6 05:00:04 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Male 18


Hello no. I'm not going to die for people who wouldn't die for me, and even then. I have no obligation towards anybody except myself and I don't have the urge to play the hero for people I don't know. Heroism is overrated, let me tell you. It's 15 minutes of fame that costs you your life or a limb.

Trying to overpower the terrorists I might be up for if chances looked good.

The only exception would be when my brother or whatever was on the plane.




Or if the terrorists happened to be sexy brunettes aged 17 to 25. I'd be their love-slave for free.


 
FN Posted: Thu Oct 6 05:00:49 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  meshuggah said:
>Hmmm, thinking about it, if there were any young children I would definately have to reconsider.

Those children will just grow up into the same assholes, I don't see the point.


 
CorDrine Posted: Thu Oct 6 10:52:40 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Female 28
Answer : No

I've seen enough of the selfish world. I bet if I die for them, no one would care, no one would be thankful. Its not even a heroic act! Its just a human sacrifice, like a lamb offering to an altar, only this offering make me lower then the lamb!

And I agree with CriminalSaint if people like us were judge as lower class of moral development. I don't think your question is even about moral here. There is no right or wrong at state here. There isn't even a purpose worth considering here. Your death would just be meaningless. Who is to say they won't kill the rest after you've volunteered? I mean, heck, would you even trust and bet your life on it? Hell no!


 
HSolo216 Posted: Thu Oct 6 12:14:53 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Yes, Male, 20

It is not everyday that someone gives you the chance to save a life. I guess I see it as a sort of Christian duty.


 
FN Posted: Thu Oct 6 13:19:53 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  HSolo216 said:
>Yes, Male, 20
>
>It is not everyday that someone gives you the chance to save a life. I guess I see it as a sort of Christian duty.


I'm sorry, but I'm not buying your bs. You'd probably be pissing your religious pants and asking the nice terrorist if he would let you live if in return for some oral pleasure.


 
kurohyou Posted: Thu Oct 6 13:45:38 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Yes, Male - 27

Death comes for us all at any given point and I think giving your life for another, regardless of your connection or lack of connection to them is, is something commendable and something I would do.

I am looking to go into a career in law enforcement, and, like other public safety jobs, you may have to do something which would cost your your life while saving another. To me that is completly worth it.

And you might get a building or a school named after you.

For what it's worth...


 
HSolo216 Posted: Thu Oct 6 13:49:26 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>I'm sorry, but I'm not buying your bs. You'd probably be pissing your religious pants and asking the nice terrorist if he would let you live if in return for some oral pleasure.

In an everyday situation I am more likely to choose the more selfish pathway. However, if I was given the option to save someone else's life, I would definitely sacrifice my own. You can disagree with my reasoning and I might be pissing my pants, but I would have to try to do what I see to be the right thing. I can't know without having experienced the situation, but as long as we are all just guessing, my answer is yes.

My decision would change if I was married or had children.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Oct 6 13:53:13 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Something is amiss here.
I've seen post after post stating that the others would not die for you.
How do you know that ?
And who cares anyway, it's not about them, it's about you.
If I were to volunteer, and I like to think I would, it would matter not whether or not the others would do the same. The only question would be whether or not it was the right thing for me to do.


 
DanSRose Posted: Thu Oct 6 22:03:18 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
> asking the nice terrorist if he would let you live if in return for some oral pleasure.

HA! Christophe's funny. He wins the Prize


 
choke Posted: Thu Oct 6 22:28:07 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  DanSRose said:
>Christophe said:
>> asking the nice terrorist if he would let you live if in return for some oral pleasure.
>
Who wouldn't give oral pleasure for their lives?


 
DanSRose Posted: Thu Oct 6 22:32:58 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  22/male/NY.

I'd probably do the slave thing. I have a protector thing in me. I also have a planning-strategy thing in me too, so I really doubt I'll be stuck forever.
People are assholes and some probably wouldn't piss on you to put you out if you were fire, but you what? Fuck 'em. Whether it's that I get my rocks off being the Hero, or I have empathy for my fellow (wo)man, or if I have some BD/SM thing I don't yet kown about.
I'm sticking with the 'Do Unto Others' theory, because that's how it is.


 
sweet p Posted: Thu Oct 6 22:34:21 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Hey DanSRose...
I didn't want to start a new thread but I just wanted to say I hope you had fun for New Years...Shana tovah.



 
choke Posted: Thu Oct 6 22:41:26 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  DanSRose said:
>22/male/NY.
>
WHOA im guessing the NY stands for New York? I'm so going there tomorrow morning!! I'm there till Monday night. Keep an eye out :P


 
Mesh Posted: Thu Oct 6 23:05:03 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I thought about it some more. I really hate backpeddling.


 
addi Posted: Fri Oct 7 07:56:07 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
 
It's an interesting ethical dilemma to think about. None of us really know how we would react. We can only speculate what we THINK we might do in that situation. Something tells me that some of us "noble" souls that said we would sacrifice our life for the others may think twice about doing it if push came to shove. Maybe some that said "No way" might surprise themselves and do it.
In times of crisis when split second decisions have to be made predicting what we would or wouldn't do is nothing more than a crap shoot.


 
FN Posted: Fri Oct 7 09:37:37 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  choke said:
>DanSRose said:
>>Christophe said:
>>> asking the nice terrorist if he would let you live if in return for some oral pleasure.
>>
>Who wouldn't give oral pleasure for their lives?

Me.


 
FN Posted: Fri Oct 7 09:39:20 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I would be happy to recieve oral pleasure to save my life though.


Anybody seen Scary Movie?

...

no?


 
Kira Posted: Fri Oct 7 16:58:38 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  What is with everyone in this thread talking about "dying for" thirty people? The option named was slavery.


 
FN Posted: Fri Oct 7 17:09:36 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Oh yeah, if you put it that way, slavery ain't that bad.


 
FN Posted: Fri Oct 7 17:10:29 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  And I mean, it isn't like freedom is all cream cookies and pink moons behind fluffy clouds either.


 
Kira Posted: Fri Oct 7 17:43:28 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>cream cookies and pink moons behind fluffy clouds.

I'm sorry, what?

>cream cookies and pink moons behind fluffy clouds.


 
FN Posted: Fri Oct 7 20:25:11 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Exactly.


 
DanSRose Posted: Fri Oct 7 22:33:00 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Sweet P said:
>Hey DanSRose...
>I didn't want to start a new thread but I just wanted to say I hope you had fun for New Years...Shana tovah.


Thank you!

Choke said:
>WHOA im guessing the NY stands for New York? I'm so going there tomorrow morning!! I'm there till Monday night. Keep an eye out :P

Where in NY? You should definitely go to the Strand- the best book store ever ever ever. Ever. 2 and a half miles of books; all cheap, some used.


 
erikagm Posted: Mon Oct 10 19:16:55 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Ok I have to judge people's moral developemental stages by their responses to a situation for psychology...

I need your basic answer (yes/no), your sex, your age, and your reasoning behind your answer

Terrorists have kidnapped you and 30 other people. One of the 31 kidnapped has the option of being enslaved by the terrorists in order to save everyone else's lives. Would you volunteer? Why or why not?

Thanks guys.


Yes/F/27/Mexico

If it would mean that the other 30 people would be released, I would. If it meant still being enslaved, but living, I wouldnt. It's no good to be alive if they're still gonna keep you prisoner, or at least that's my point of view...

Besides, once the other people were released, I could always kill myself once I got fed up with the situation if I was never rescued...


 
choke Posted: Mon Oct 10 21:43:16 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  DanSRose said:
>
>Choke said:
>>WHOA im guessing the NY stands for New York? I'm so going there tomorrow morning!! I'm there till Monday night. Keep an eye out :P
>
>Where in NY? You should definitely go to the Strand- the best book store ever ever ever. Ever. 2 and a half miles of books; all cheap, some used.

I stayed in the Carlyle Hotel on 76th and Madison because my host family is ridiculously rich :D Didn't go to the strand but the shopping in NY is AMAZING and I rarely enjoy shopping. Except because my family are so rich I spent most of my time in stores like Ralph Lauren and stuff it was very depressing. Except a really small person like jumped on me and started playing with my earrings and prattling at me in french.. Was veery cute.

I love New York though, I'm from NZ and even I wouldn't mind living there for awhile. The architecture was fantastic, and I love the fact that I could get ridiculously lost every day for like 10 years in there. Definately an option I'd keep open for the future!

Except after awhile I think I might miss like grass and mountains and stuff. I had trouble breathing the whole time I was there, but that is my only complaint.

I love how people have like designer dogs there too. Like they can take them into the most outrageously expensive stores and no one bats an eyelid.

Sorry for prattling I know this has nothing to do with the thread :P


 
kurohyou Posted: Tue Oct 11 11:12:28 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>
>It's an interesting ethical dilemma to think about. None of us really know how we would react. We can only speculate what we THINK we might do in that situation. Something tells me that some of us "noble" souls that said we would sacrifice our life for the others may think twice about doing it if push came to shove. Maybe some that said "No way" might surprise themselves and do it.
>In times of crisis when split second decisions have to be made predicting what we would or wouldn't do is nothing more than a crap shoot.

This reminded me of that scene in "The Neverending Story" where Atreyu goes to the mirror challenge after he passes the southern oracle.

It says that the Mirror reflects you as you truly are. Brave men found that they were cowards, etc. Its nice to think about how we would react in a given situation, but, yes, when it comes down to it, you have no real idea of how you would react until you are in that situation.

One of the areas I am very aware of this is law enforcement debates. I am very cautious when I discuss officer involved shootings, and I'm not quick to condemn police officers who have shot someone, even if it seems like the officer was in the wrong. The fact is I can stand here, as nothing more than an armchair officer, and say that I would have done this or that. The fact is I wasn't in that situation, I've never been in a situation like that, and I have no idea how I would actually react to some of the situations I've read about.

That was a bit of a rambling way of saying I agree.

Not that it matters...


 
beetlebum Posted: Tue Oct 11 11:30:27 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  kurohyou said:
>addi said:
>>
>>It's an interesting ethical dilemma to think about. None of us really know how we would react. We can only speculate what we THINK we might do in that situation. Something tells me that some of us "noble" souls that said we would sacrifice our life for the others may think twice about doing it if push came to shove. Maybe some that said "No way" might surprise themselves and do it.
>>In times of crisis when split second decisions have to be made predicting what we would or wouldn't do is nothing more than a crap shoot.
>
>This reminded me of that scene in "The Neverending Story" where Atreyu goes to the mirror challenge after he passes the southern oracle.
>
>It says that the Mirror reflects you as you truly are. Brave men found that they were cowards, etc. Its nice to think about how we would react in a given situation, but, yes, when it comes down to it, you have no real idea of how you would react until you are in that situation.
>
>One of the areas I am very aware of this is law enforcement debates. I am very cautious when I discuss officer involved shootings, and I'm not quick to condemn police officers who have shot someone, even if it seems like the officer was in the wrong. The fact is I can stand here, as nothing more than an armchair officer, and say that I would have done this or that. The fact is I wasn't in that situation, I've never been in a situation like that, and I have no idea how I would actually react to some of the situations I've read about.
>
>That was a bit of a rambling way of saying I agree.
>
>Not that it matters...


I disagree with both of you, I think. Either you know yourself or you don't. There is a difference between what you would do, what you *think* you should do according to what is right or rational, and whether the two match up.

If you cannot say what you would do in that situation, how can you say what you would do in any stressful situation? I think it's a bit of a cop out to claim that we can't say that we know. If the decision was made rationally, we should be able to say that we would know what we would do. And even if it were an emotional decision, I think that in this case, too, people should know how they function emotionally.

In other words, the strong among us (self-aware, intellectually and emotionally) could say what they would do and be confident in their prediction. I'm not saying I'm one of those people; I'm just saying that they are out there and that it is possible to know.

Also, I think kurohyou's examples re: police officers who pull the trigger only to find out later that their target was unarmed or 12 years old or whatever... those cops can say, though, that in a situation where they feel their life or their colleague's life is in immediate danger, they will shoot to kill. They may have been wrong in their assessment of the situation, but not in their *prediction of their reaction to a particular assessment*. Those two questions are very different.




 
addi Posted: Tue Oct 11 12:28:50 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  beetlebum said:

>I disagree with both of you, I think. Either you know yourself or you don't.

Ahhhh...the sweet self-assuredness of youth (written in a non-condecending tone)

: )

Any one of us can say what we'd do in a crisis situation...that's simple (I posted that I would give up my life), but if you are unable to understand the very real distinction between predicting ones future actions and actually following through on those actions then i know any defense I make falls on deaf ears.

We can only make a reasonable guess, based on "knowing" ourselves as to what we would really do in the circumstances choke described for us. To turn that educated guess into a fact seems to me to be a rather large leap.

Having said that I do admit that the particular circumstances of the crisis make a huge difference in my assuredness of how i would behave. For instance, in the example we're using here where i would be asked to give up my life for strangers, I will only guess that I would do it, based on what I know of myself.
However, if that group of strangers included my family members my "guess" on how I would act moves much closer to certainty because the situation now includes loved ones. But it's still technically only a prediction. We can know as fact what has happened in the past. We can only make logical and reasoned assumptions about what our actions would be in the future.


 
beetlebum Posted: Tue Oct 11 13:15:57 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>beetlebum said:
>
>>I disagree with both of you, I think. Either you know yourself or you don't.
>
>Ahhhh...the sweet self-assuredness of youth (written in a non-condecending tone)

How did I know you would say that?

I think it's naive to assume that age necessarily implies wisdom.


 
addi Posted: Tue Oct 11 13:39:22 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  beetlebum said:

>I think it's naive to assume that age necessarily implies wisdom.

lol
and it's naive of you to assume that that's what i meant. Lots of smart older people, and lots of stupid ones. Same goes for younger people. But, all things being equal except for age, I'll ponder the advice of an old man on questions about life more seriously than I will advice from a teenager. It's not a judgement on the teen having a smaller brain, or lacking the capacity to become brilliant. Merely the wisdom of time spent experiencing the blows that life sends our way for the older man/woman, that the younger person hasn't had the chance to experience yet.

*and it's so refreshing to have a good debate on something other than politics here. thanks, beetlebum.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Oct 11 15:00:55 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>beetlebum said:
>
>>I think it's naive to assume that age necessarily implies wisdom.
>
>lol
>and it's naive of you to assume that that's what i meant. Lots of smart older people, and lots of stupid ones. Same goes for younger people. But, all things being equal except for age, I'll ponder the advice of an old man on questions about life more seriously than I will advice from a teenager. It's not a judgement on the teen having a smaller brain, or lacking the capacity to become brilliant. Merely the wisdom of time spent experiencing the blows that life sends our way for the older man/woman, that the younger person hasn't had the chance to experience yet.
>
>*and it's so refreshing to have a good debate on something other than politics here. thanks, beetlebum.
>
Awriiiiiight !
Score one for the geezers !


 
FN Posted: Tue Oct 11 15:02:58 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  The flappy saloon door-thingies wave open

In steps none other than Christophe





I says, what's be causin' allo these ruckuss?


 
addi Posted: Tue Oct 11 15:28:51 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:

>I says, what's be causin' allo these ruckuss?

(Addi leaning on the bar with a shot of whiskey in a dirty glass slowly turns to the stranger and stares at him with cold steeley eyes and one hand moving towards his colt revolver)

"I'll be your Huckleberry, pard-ten-er...no wait...that sounded too gay...ummm...I wash born here, an I wash raished here, and dad gum it, I am gonna die here, an no sidewindin bushwackin, hornswaglin, cracker croaker Belgerm is gonna rouin me bishen cutter"


 
beetlebum Posted: Tue Oct 11 16:47:51 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I understand that you weren't implying that all old people are wise or all young people are naive. What frustrates me is that (a) I knew you were going to say that and *almost* put something in my post to keep you from doing so because any time any non-wishy washy statement is made (i.e. one that does not immediately recognize those grey areas in life) that card is seems often pulled and (b) why cannot our predictions be our reality, or why can't they be the reality of those people who are willing to live with integrity?

To say that we can only make an educated guess assumes, at least in some ways, that we have no control over our actions other than in the very moment we act. I think, though, that people should take more responsibility for the moral construct (or whatever) by which they live and really think through these issues, even though I readily admit there is no right or wrong answer.

To be sure, there are many people who would poorly predict how they would behave because they haven't thought about moral issues in depth or are unable to admit their strengths and/or flaws. But I choose to believe that even in highly pressurized circumstances, there are those who will abide by a pre-decided code of moral conduct. Perhaps the situation Choke presented us with was not detailed enough, per se, to make an educated decision. But even then, generally speaking, I thought that the question was trying to get us to think about a few broad issues: Would you give up your life (into slavery) for another human being or group of them? Why would or wouldn't you do so? What about other human beings makes you believe they are worth the sacrifice? Is obligation to others a reason for submitting yourself to slavery, or is obligation to save yourself more important? To me, those were the basic issues presented, and there are those people who can say with certainty how they would act and then do so.

If we are to deny that our predictions only serve as a guide but *not* future reality, then what *does* determine our actions? It kinda saddens me that perhaps the way we think we would deal with a situation is not how we would actually deal with it due to a physiological response. To say that perhaps in that moment we would abide by our gut instinct makes me wonder what we are doing the rest of the time. O' course, I'm *not* saying that we shouldn't recognize that the details of the situation we are in would affect our decision, but I think that most of the time the moral issues surrounding a situation are more clear-cut than people would like to admit.

We may lie to others, but we certainly shouldn't lie to ourselves about what we would do or what is important to us, and I certainly think that many people do think about these issues and then abide by their decisions (their version of morality).

In other words, my original point was thus: there are some people out there who can predict how they would behave because the very fact that they have thought about the issue and made a choice means that they know what they feel and think they should do and whether or not they will abide by that moral assessment.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Oct 11 16:56:55 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Based on the wisdom I have gleaned from half a century of living, I can tell you without reservation that most people can say how they would want to act in a certain situation and that wouldn't translate into what they might actually do in said situation.
It's a fact, write it down.


 
addi Posted: Tue Oct 11 17:54:41 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>It's a fact, write it down.

: )

I would look into the eye of any person and tell them with sincerity that if the woman of my dreams, the most exotic, erotic, sensuous feminine beauty god put on this earth, approached me at a bar while I was alone and had consumed a few beers, and whispered in my ear to follow her into a side room with a bed and candles and latin music playing in the background, and then proceeded to do a slow strip tease in front of me, and then layed on the bed and gave me the come hither look...I would tell that person if i was put in that situation I would resist the temptation and walk away.
It's easy for me to be honest while I'm not facing that senario in real life.
But if it did happen (yeah...in my dreams) I really can't say I'd have the inner fortitude to actually walk away. I just don't know.

My other worldly point is that, without having ever experienced the situation, we can only say with certainty "this is how I hope I would act". Nothing more.

And Beetlebum I think we are actually much closer in how we feel than it appears. You make some very valid points (not that you need my validation). I admit I was a tad guilty of playing the devil's advocate earlier...cuz I'm a stinker sometimes.

*Re-reading this I'm thinking I should have used a different example. I think i just set myself up again for ridicule.



 
Mesh Posted: Tue Oct 11 17:57:48 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>
>*Re-reading this I'm thinking I should have used a different example. I think i just set myself up again for ridicule.
>


No one ridicule addi for that example.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Oct 11 18:32:45 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  meshuggah said:
>addi said:
>>
>>*Re-reading this I'm thinking I should have used a different example. I think i just set myself up again for ridicule.
>>
>
>
>No one ridicule addi for that example.
>
Ok I won't say anything about the sheep at the bar.


 
addi Posted: Tue Oct 11 21:41:00 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  meshuggah said:

>No one ridicule addi for that example.

too late. Hiffer zapped me good.

darn..i knew sheep would enter the conversation somewhere


 
Mesh Posted: Tue Oct 11 21:48:28 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  *throws hands up* Well I tried.


 
sweet p Posted: Wed Oct 12 02:05:56 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  kurohyou said:

>Atreyu


Atreyu!


 
beetlebum Posted: Wed Oct 12 03:10:26 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>ifihadahif said:
>
>>It's a fact, write it down.
>
>: )
>
>I would look into the eye of any person and tell them with sincerity that if the woman of my dreams, the most exotic, erotic, sensuous feminine beauty god put on this earth, approached me at a bar while I was alone and had consumed a few beers, and whispered in my ear to follow her into a side room with a bed and candles and latin music playing in the background, and then proceeded to do a slow strip tease in front of me, and then layed on the bed and gave me the come hither look...I would tell that person if i was put in that situation I would resist the temptation and walk away.
>It's easy for me to be honest while I'm not facing that senario in real life.
>But if it did happen (yeah...in my dreams) I really can't say I'd have the inner fortitude to actually walk away. I just don't know.
>
>My other worldly point is that, without having ever experienced the situation, we can only say with certainty "this is how I hope I would act". Nothing more.
>
>And Beetlebum I think we are actually much closer in how we feel than it appears. You make some very valid points (not that you need my validation). I admit I was a tad guilty of playing the devil's advocate earlier...cuz I'm a stinker sometimes.
>
There's no need to be nice about it, and I don't think that you were. Especially if you believe that your thoughts on cheating now could play little role in your future depending on the circumstances.

I know that nothing is 100% certain. Nothing. (well, except death).

But perhaps the point of my argument was that just because others' behaviour does not always match with proclaimed morals/rules/whatever does not mean that it is that way for everyone. I think it is sad that people use so-called uncertainty almost as an excuse even before the rule-breaking occurs.

Perhaps I'm off of the mark entirely.

But I prefer playing on the playground to adopting your version of the only possibility regarding the way people behave. I would just like to believe that out of all of things we don't have control over, there are a few who have control over their behaviour, particularly in situations where the effect on other people involved is so grave.





 
beetlebum Posted: Wed Oct 12 03:11:19 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
 
>But I prefer playing on the playground to adopting your version of the only possibility regarding the way people behave. I would just like to believe that out of all of things we don't have control over, there are a few who have control over their behaviour and act according to an already-established morality, particularly in situations where the effect on other people involved is so grave.
>
>
>


 
Mesh Posted: Wed Oct 12 03:18:03 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Sweet P said:
>kurohyou said:
>
>>Atreyu
>
>
>Atreyu!


THIRDED


 
ifihadahif Posted: Wed Oct 12 06:50:45 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  beetlebum said:
>But I prefer playing on the playground to adopting your version of the only possibility regarding the way people behave. I would just like to believe that out of all of things we don't have control over, there are a few who have control over their behaviour, particularly in situations where the effect on other people involved is so grave.
>
>
>
I'm not even sure if we're arguing the same point. We all have control over our behavior, what we are talking about here is whether or not we all have the "courage of our convictions."

We all want to sacrifice ourselves for the sake of the other 30 hostages, but will we really have the courage to do it when the time comes ?

BTW will someone please shoot me, I seem to be arguing addi's side and it's so very very painful for me.


 
addi Posted: Wed Oct 12 07:10:44 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>BTW will someone please shoot me, I seem to be arguing addi's side and it's so very very painful for me.

Has the whole world gone topsy-turvy?!

: )


 
addi Posted: Wed Oct 12 07:40:28 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  beetlebum said:

>There's no need to be nice about it, and I don't think that you were.

I'm sorry you took it that way.

>Especially if you believe that your thoughts on cheating now could play little role in your future depending on the circumstances.

I have no idea what this means, but it doesn't sound flattering
: )


>I think it is sad that people use so-called uncertainty almost as an excuse even before the rule-breaking occurs.

you are off the mark here. I never stated that not knowing with certainty how we would behave in a moment of crisis was a justifable "excuse" for that behavior. Only that I don't feel we can state in the present with certitude how we will act in the future. As I've stated already, I feel we can only safely say this is how I think and hope I would act under those circumstances. Unless I'm mistaken, none of us have a crystal ball to see into the future.

>I would just like to believe that out of all of things we don't have control over, there are a few who have control over their behaviour, particularly in situations where the effect on other people involved is so grave.

I have no desire (or right) to change your way of thinking. Go ahead and believe that by all means. But your implication that just because I feel we can't be certain of our behavior in a situation does not equate to having no control over our behavior. It's a flawed conclusion to my premisis. Control over our behavior is a wide spectrum and a matter of degrees, not an either we have total control, or we have none senario. Because I don't believe I can say I know for certain how I would behave in choke's example, does not mean that I have zero control over my behavior.



 
kurohyou Posted: Wed Oct 12 08:44:20 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I still have to stick by hif, addi, and my previous position on this. Running senarios through one's head is a good way to prepare for any given situation, but, as it has been stated many times already, that is not a predictor of how you will actually react if faced with that situation.

Its all speculation until it comes right down to it.

It's early and I have to go to a psych test for a police department now. I'm going to walk in there with images of Addi and a sheep pounding down cheap whiskey in mason jars, christophe in chaps, and Sweet P and Mesh chasing us all on the back of Falcore. This ought to be fun.

Not that it matters...


 
addi Posted: Wed Oct 12 09:11:59 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  kurohyou said:

>I'm going to walk in there with images of Addi pounding a sheep and Sweet P and Mesh chasing down cheap whiskey on the back of Christophe in chaps.

You'll come out much more sane on the exam if you have these images running through your instead.

Good luck


 
FN Posted: Wed Oct 12 09:13:31 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  What she is saying is that if you are a moral person and you claim to have control over your own actions, the situation shouldn't and doesn't matter, and if it does that implies that you're using the situation as an excuse for your lack of control and therefor forsake some, if not all of the responsibility that would go along with making an immoral choice.


 
beetlebum Posted: Wed Oct 12 09:23:52 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>beetlebum said:
>
>>There's no need to be nice about it, and I don't think that you were.
>
>I'm sorry you took it that way.
>

! I meant that I didn't think you were playing devil's advocate with me and that instead, you were simply arguing your own opinion.

Sorry. If I had meant what it seemed like I meant, I would've sounded quite petulant- I didn't mean it that way.

Anyway, like you said, we'll have to agree to disagree.




 
beetlebum Posted: Wed Oct 12 09:35:21 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>What she is saying is that if you are a moral person and you claim to have control over your own actions, the situation shouldn't and doesn't matter, and if it does that implies that you're using the situation as an excuse for your lack of control and therefor forsake some, if not all of the responsibility that would go along with making an immoral choice.

Yeah. What he said, dammit.


 
Nikki Posted: Wed Oct 12 11:15:23 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  female

28

NO FUCKING WAY!!! I'd even say: "hey guys they want me to be a slave so you can be set free...watch their ugly mouths drop before the firing squad guns the whole fucking lot down...ahahahahahahah


 
choke Posted: Wed Oct 12 16:56:21 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Nikki said:
>female
>
>28
>
>NO FUCKING WAY!!! I'd even say: "hey guys they want me to be a slave so you can be set free...watch their ugly mouths drop before the firing squad guns the whole fucking lot down...ahahahahahahah

I didn't say they wanted you specifically..


 
addi Posted: Wed Oct 12 18:03:34 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  choke said:

>I didn't say they wanted you specifically..

lol

but..but...everybody wants Nikki

: )


 
Nikki Posted: Thu Oct 13 09:51:06 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ;-)


 
Asswipe Posted: Thu Oct 13 11:39:44 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  beetlebum said:
>Christophe said:
>>What she is saying is that if you are a moral person and you claim to have control over your own actions, the situation shouldn't and doesn't matter, and if it does that implies that you're using the situation as an excuse for your lack of control and therefor forsake some, if not all of the responsibility that would go along with making an immoral choice.
>
>Yeah. What he said, dammit.

but you cannot imagine the actual situation as it will be. you won't know about the 12 year old girl whimpering and shaking in the corner and the 7 man train the terrorists just ran on her. the situation is everything. there is no question of morals without being in a situation. if the co-prisoners are all 70 year old convicted murderers or drug dealers, that changes things.


 
choke Posted: Thu Oct 13 11:46:32 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Hey I didn't mean to unsettle you all.. I was just using you to do my homework..


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Oct 13 13:11:54 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  God how I hate being used !
:-)


 
addi Posted: Thu Oct 13 13:54:48 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  choke said:
>Hey I didn't mean to unsettle you all.. I was just using you to do my homework..

Well, damn it, stop using us to do your homework!


and I'm very unsettled today. My toyota corolla just went tits up on me on the drive to work. 270,000 miles and she finally told me "that's enough...put me down"
you go through that many miles, years, and experiences with a vehicle, i don't care if it's an innate object, you have a hard time letting go.
it's a sad day


 
Mesh Posted: Thu Oct 13 16:14:17 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  choke said:
>Hey I didn't mean to unsettle you all.. I was just using you to do my homework..


So how did that assignment go anyways? Whats the results?


 
sweet p Posted: Thu Oct 13 18:51:58 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  kurohyou said:
> Falcore.

Falcore!



 
libra Posted: Thu Oct 13 20:07:31 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
, i don't care if it's an innate object, you have a hard time letting go.
>it's a sad day

aww. i know what you mean there...when we had to trade in my little old volvo I cried. And I went into this stage where I hated everything about the new car.



 
choke Posted: Thu Oct 13 21:03:02 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  meshuggah said:
>
>
>So how did that assignment go anyways? Whats the results?

Went good, wasn't really an assignment, just a small peice of homework.. Most of you are normal. One of you is at the 9 yrold stage but I'm not saying who. Most of you are good for your ages


 
Mesh Posted: Thu Oct 13 23:30:06 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Its me I know it.


 
kurohyou Posted: Fri Oct 14 00:34:43 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>kurohyou said:
>
>>I'm going to walk in there with images of Addi pounding a sheep and Sweet P and Mesh chasing down cheap whiskey on the back of Christophe in chaps.
>
>You'll come out much more sane on the exam if you have these images running through your instead.
>
>Good luck

Well the psych test was the easy part. It wasn't really a psych test, more a test to see if you were breathing. Either that or this woman was good at what she did and could tell off the bat that I was a nut job.

Today was a little harder. Polygraph test. This is the third one I've done. The first two were with grumpy men. This one was done by a cute little blonde, needless to say some of my reactions were affected.

But she gets to the question about whether I've ever been involved in any illegal sexual activity and ran the gauntlet of illegal sexual activity, she hits beastiality at the end and I crack up because this image went through my head. It was a little hard to explain.

Oh well...Its over, now we wait and see.

Not that it matters...


 
addi Posted: Fri Oct 14 07:46:38 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  kurohyou said:

>But she gets to the question about whether I've ever been involved in any illegal sexual activity and ran the gauntlet of illegal sexual activity, she hits beastiality at the end and I crack up because this image went through my head. It was a little hard to explain.


I don't even want to hear about the image that came to your mind.


Dina Byrnes: I had no idea you could milk a cat.
Greg Focker: Oh yeah, you can milk anything with nipples.
Jack Byrnes: I have nipples Greg. Could you milk me?


 
ifihadahif Posted: Fri Oct 14 08:05:19 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>Dina Byrnes: I had no idea you could milk a cat.
>Greg Focker: Oh yeah, you can milk anything with nipples.
>Jack Byrnes: I have nipples Greg. Could you milk me?
>
Clams got legs !


 
kurohyou Posted: Fri Oct 14 11:02:02 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>kurohyou said:
>
>>But she gets to the question about whether I've ever been involved in any illegal sexual activity and ran the gauntlet of illegal sexual activity, she hits beastiality at the end and I crack up because this image went through my head. It was a little hard to explain.
>
>
>I don't even want to hear about the image that came to your mind.

It was the image that you gave above about you pounding a sheep, and Sweet P and Mesh chasing down cheap whiskey on the back of christophe in chaps...

How do you explain that to someone who's never been on this forum?

Not that it matters...


 
addi Posted: Fri Oct 14 11:09:37 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  kurohyou said:

>It was the image that you gave above about you pounding a sheep, and Sweet P and Mesh chasing down cheap whiskey on the back of christophe in chaps...

LOL
Very smart of you to avoid any discussion of that image. You would have been cuffed and sent away no doubt.

*just to clarify...me pounding a sheep meant slapping it around, not the other kind of pounding
: )


 
Nikki Posted: Mon Oct 17 13:34:18 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  why is EVERYONE on here such fucking ass lickers?


 
FN Posted: Mon Oct 17 14:11:55 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Because we live to please.


 
addi Posted: Mon Oct 17 14:37:24 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Nikki said:
>why is EVERYONE on here such fucking ass lickers?

I have no doubt you believe that Stikki, which begs the question, Why do you keep popping up back here time after time if we're all such fucking ass lickers? Hmmm...

The really funny (and kinda pathetic)thing though is that I can think of only one or two posters here that might want you to stay...and the sad truth to that minority is that they're plonkers living in a fantasy world that if they suck up to you with their tails tucked between their legs often enough you might throw them a saggy tit, and they might get to throw their bone to you someday. Hormone driven guys are like that...yeah, they are : )

The rest of us "ass lickers" wouldn't lose a second of sleep if you never came back to share your unique brand of immaturity on this forum.


 
Mesh Posted: Mon Oct 17 18:11:32 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I'm not an asslicker. Not since the summer of 1996.


 
FN Posted: Tue Oct 18 21:38:07 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Yeah that was kind of harsh after I vowed to you that I wouldn't fart.

But then again, you tickled me just right.


 
Nikki Posted: Mon Oct 24 13:04:08 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>>
>I have no doubt you believe that Stikki, which begs the question, Why do you keep popping up back here time after time if we're all such fucking ass lickers? Hmmm...
>
>The really funny (and kinda pathetic)thing though is that I can think of only one or two posters here that might want you to stay...and the sad truth to that minority is that they're plonkers living in a fantasy world that if they suck up to you with their tails tucked between their legs often enough you might throw them a saggy tit, and they might get to throw their bone to you someday. Hormone driven guys are like that...yeah, they are : )
>
>The rest of us "ass lickers" wouldn't lose a second of sleep if you never came back to share your unique brand of immaturity on this forum.


touchy touchy!!! in pain, are we, huh? hahahaha


 



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