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An awkward situation
jennemmer Posted: Mon Nov 28 02:13:04 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I went to a poker night tonight. There were supposed to be other females there. They didn't show up. One guy, who didn't seem like a bad guy overall was playing the role of "jackass". This is something I've seen before - being cruder and ruder and drunker to get peoples attention and that weird form of male acceptance. I am not however at all used to being in a situation where the comments, though made flippantly enough to seem to be in jest were so... misogynistic. The stuff directed in my direction I could deal with for the most part and my boyfriend gave him a good shot on the arm for one particular comment... but I just hate not knowing how to deal in a situation like that. He's just looking for a rise out of people so by calling him down or making a big deal about it I can't see it getting better. And then it would have singled me out far worse as 'the girl' at the poker table.

Now most of the other guys there are really good people, they have my respect and I think I have theirs... but that doesn't make me feel less grimy when I think about it.

Have any of you had similar experiences? What have you done about them if anything? What sort of a response might let me feel like I'm standing up for myself and my gender without provoking a worse retaliation?


 
FN Posted: Mon Nov 28 04:48:50 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Aim for the balls.





Seriously though, if the guy is like that, being drunk or not is not an excuse, drunk people often tell the truth.

And if his friends just let him have his way, they're no better either.


My advice? get new friends, because those you have now are assholes it seems, plain and simple.


 
Ahriman Posted: Mon Nov 28 06:14:26 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Call him "gay" everytime he says something stupid. It will piss him off to no end. Be a homophobic Ghandi. That or else just let him talk and talk and talk and keep pushing the alcohol his way. They shut up after a while.


 
addi Posted: Mon Nov 28 07:02:45 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Ahriman said:
>Call him "gay" everytime he says something stupid. It will piss him off to no end.

and if he's gay call him "straight" everytime he says something stupid. It will piss him off to no end.

Question: Did Myk stand up for you when he realized it made you uncomfortable?


 
beetlebum Posted: Mon Nov 28 07:13:59 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I hung out with a big group of guys in high school, and I was only put in the situation you're talking about once or twice. Both times I just told them quite seriously that they needed to stop or I was going to leave. The men being deragatory may think you're a, well, bitch, but anyone with half a brain at that table won't, and those are the people you need to care about anyway.

That said, I think I'm a lot meaner than you are. I would just say (verbatim), "Cool or tool? Survey says: definitely tool. Shut the fuck up." I don't think you'd do that. :D


 
addi Posted: Mon Nov 28 07:34:55 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  beetlebum said:

>I would just say (verbatim), "Cool or tool? Survey says: definitely tool. Shut the fuck up."

lol
Something tells me you would say that.


(note: say complimentary things to Beetlebum if we ever play poker together)


 
beetlebum Posted: Mon Nov 28 07:36:34 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>beetlebum said:
>
>>I would just say (verbatim), "Cool or tool? Survey says: definitely tool. Shut the fuck up."
>
>lol
>Something tells me you would say that.

You know I would. :D



 
jennemmer Posted: Mon Nov 28 11:01:25 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  When it is something directed at me I have learned to handle it. What I still don't know how to take something that is said, turn it personal and respond.

Beetlebum: I am so going to use your comment if I ever find myself in that sort of situation again. ;)

Christophe said:

>My advice? get new friends, because those you have now are assholes it seems, plain and simple.

Yeah well, it's a group I don't hang out with that often anyways. I'm certainly not going to put myself in a room with him again if I can avoid it.

Addi:
Myk was unfortunately out early. Because I was his girlfriend and was doing well at the time a couple comments that would have been fine made by anyone else made them wonder if he was helping me out. He got asked to go watch the football game with the other people who were out as opposed to the poker game. The other guy didn't start getting really obnoxious until we were a bit further into the game. :p


 
addi Posted: Mon Nov 28 12:39:40 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  jennemmer said:

>Addi:
>Myk was unfortunately out early. Because I was his girlfriend and was doing well at the time a couple comments that would have been fine made by anyone else made them wonder if he was helping me out. He got asked to go watch the football game with the other people who were out as opposed to the poker game. The other guy didn't start getting really obnoxious until we were a bit further into the game. :p

Gotcha. Just curious.

Unfortunately, assholes abound in this world. I've no doubt you'll end up running into more of them. I hate to stroke Beetlebum's ego (joke...don't tell me to fuck off), but she's right.
I have a high threshold personally for that kind of thing. It takes a lot to set me off, but when I do burst I end up going ballistic. It happened in tennis a few weeks ago when another guy kept getting on me about my bad shots. After putting up with it for over an hour he said one more thing and I suddenly stopped play and screamed at him "Shut the hell up, Ricardo!!". Everyone got all silent on me. He stopped doing it though.
: )


 
libra Posted: Mon Nov 28 12:54:13 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I had somewhat similar things happen when visiting my boyfriend in canada. His guy friends seem better than that guy, but sometimes they'll say things that make me really annoyed/frustrated.

With them, half the time, they're talking about girls that actually are as stupid as the boys say they are...but other times, when they say certain sexist or homophobic things, i tend to just give them a sharp "teacher" look, and they usually get the point that the little goody-goody from california doesn't like what they're saying. They usually shut up, at least when they're around me...

also...
have you ever had someone apologize to your boyfriend rather than apologize to you? A guy knocked into me on a train and he gave a more sincere apology to my boyfriend than he did to me...it makes one feel like property...


 
Mesh Posted: Mon Nov 28 13:31:29 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  libra said:
>
>also...
>have you ever had someone apologize to your boyfriend rather than apologize to you? A guy knocked into me on a train and he gave a more sincere apology to my boyfriend than he did to me...it makes one feel like property...


Its because they don't want a butt whoopin'.


 
FN Posted: Mon Nov 28 13:37:18 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  meshuggah said:
>Its because they don't want a butt whoopin'.

Exactly.


 
libra Posted: Mon Nov 28 13:42:02 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  meshuggah said:
>libra said:
>>
>>also...
>>have you ever had someone apologize to your boyfriend rather than apologize to you? A guy knocked into me on a train and he gave a more sincere apology to my boyfriend than he did to me...it makes one feel like property...
>
>
>Its because they don't want a butt whoopin'.

oh, boys are so silly.


 
choke Posted: Mon Nov 28 20:05:10 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Gah. I don't know. I'm usually quite an asshole so I can't really think of any advice on handling one... You don't really have to do anything to stand up for yourself, because everyone can see who's being the asshole the situation. I've had friends I respect be assholes to me, sometimes I get over it, a few I'm not friends with anymore. You learn what's worth putting up with and what isn't after awhile. I say don't worry about it now, but next time let them know you aren't going to take any shit. Otherwise they'll start thinking it's okay and endup ruining a friendship.


 
Howitzer Posted: Tue Nov 29 05:00:35 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  libra said:
>meshuggah said:
>>libra said:
>>>
>>>also...
>>>have you ever had someone apologize to your boyfriend rather than apologize to you? A guy knocked into me on a train and he gave a more sincere apology to my boyfriend than he did to me...it makes one feel like property...
>>
>>
>>Its because they don't want a butt whoopin'.
>
>oh, boys are so silly.


I can say that to certain women, i am the world's biggest jerk. Mostly because I don't respect how some of them are still on that "acting dumb is cute" antic, while really it is just dumb.

I have a friend who had a girlfriend my freshman year and everytime she came over I was an asshole to her to no end. Finally, in my junior year I was tired of it and got my laughs (I finally realized she wasn't playing dumb, she just was) and when I tried to repair the trust between her and him and myself, I realized it was much harder to get an accecptance of my apology from her than him. It took a while of being honest and not joking at every opportunity to prove that I really did want to improve the situation. I am still working on it and I am more carefull now how far I push my joking*.

*Although I still feel many women (not talking about girls here, I am talking about 20yrs+) act dumb to get attention because they don't want to appear smart, and after doing this for 20yrs+, they don't know how to snap out of it. It can really piss someone off when you have to explain easy things a hundred times or have to answer 101 rhetorical questions everyday, especially when these women are juniors and seniors in engineering and bio-chem and in no way are dumb. I am not a bad guy, most feel this way, I am just to cynical to care what they think about how I feel.


 
sweet p Posted: Tue Nov 29 06:32:13 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I've fortunately never really had to deal with a situation like yours, Jenn.
Maybe something similar when I was much younger..in early high school or something. I think the only way I'd know how to deal is to speak out. A "what gives" type of response to make him know you're taking it personally. Others will recognize your discomfort and maybe they'll help you out. If HE doesn't take a hint though or has no good response, then words will never work with his kind. Making eye contact and giving him a condescending [silent] shake of the head [almost like you're disgusted but you also pitty him] will send across the "you're stupid" message.

-----
What is weird though is that I have however experienced something a lot more similar to what Howitzer was describing.

Before I really knew my friend's girlfriend I was always really surprised to hear guys making fun of her to her face and calling her "a stupid girl" or saying things like "fuck this, you're just a chick". It always happened that I had just walked into the room or I had just joined the conversation at that point and I'd find myself automatically defending her [but mostly defend "myself" because they were generalising against females]. I was most surprised that her boyfriend never really stood up for her. The rest of the "group" was made up of guys that I didn't know so well, with the exception of my boyfriend, who I never had problems hitting over the head or telling off if I'd catch him saying anything. His responses were always along the lines of "P, you have no idea..LISTEN to what she's saying. If anything, you should be defending yourself against HER."

The more I got to know her, the more I became annoyed with her and slowly I realised that I would be throwing in my own comments to make fun of her. It was the same type of thing that Howitzer described where I just couldn't tolerate her stupidity any longer. And there is really no other way to deal with this if you can't ignore the person completely. She would say something, expect a response..and all I could think of to say was "Are you fucking serious?" This girl HAD to be fairly academically intelligent and have some common sense because she was studying [and getting better grades than me ;)] at my university to be an engineer.

I am still unsure what her problem was but after 4 years she has finally realised that acting retarded gets you nowhere and she's smartened up her act. We still don't get along perfectly with things like when she wants to talk about her clothes and "how boyfriends should be" but in other respects she's become one of the few girls I can tolerate for a long period of time. We've been away on small trips together and things like that.

Moral of the story: people freak me out.

Anyway Jenn, I think whereas the "assholes" in my story were frustrated guys, your dude seems more like an ass who wants some reactions and wants to feel good about himself at other people's expense.

If all else fails you can lead him into a dark alley way and kick his ass. We all know you're capable.


 
addi Posted: Tue Nov 29 07:00:02 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Sweet P said:


>Moral of the story: people freak me out.

lol
I HATE people! That's why I only hang around with dogs and imaginary friends.

>If all else fails you can lead him into a dark alley way and kick his ass. We all know you're capable.

It's twoo! Jenn has a "pink" belt in Karate...that's why I'm always so nice to her.


 
jennemmer Posted: Tue Nov 29 08:47:40 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Howitzer said:

>I can say that to certain women, i am the world's biggest jerk. Mostly because I don't respect how some of them are still on that "acting dumb is cute" antic, while really it is just dumb.


Oh, I'll admit that very few things drive me more crazy than watching a perfectly capable person act like an idiot to get attention. It seems sort of the opposite equivalent of getting really drunk and acting like an ass to get attention.

Just where do people get the idea that this is going to make them _more_ wanted?


 
Howitzer Posted: Tue Nov 29 10:01:22 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  because some men still want a wife, not a partner, or a fuck-buddy and not a buddy. So when a woman is 'playing-dumb', the guy says 'hey, here is one who can't think for herself. perfect, i will be the one in charge adn i can get away with whatevr i want'. maybe not all that is conscience, but it is there on some level.

Perhaps I am resentful, to a degree, to those dumb women because it works and i know there is a part in me that is attracted to it. But mostly i don't like it when my roommates and i are having a great discussion and one of our girlfriends interrupts with "this is boring, i don't know what you are talking about" or "i want to go shopping" (those are mostly the responses of the one woman i dislike, but all of them have been known to say it on occasion, she is jsut the worst.)


 



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