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What are you, kidding me?
Posted: Sun Dec 18 00:33:35 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  US Federal Agents visit a University Senior who requested Mao Tse-Tung's tome on communism: http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/12-05/12-17-05/a09lo650.htm

Is this really America?

Because the way things are going, it's almost as plausible these days to think that there's some enormous joke at the top of the pyramid that the rest of us just aren't getting.

It's like a who-can-out-ridiculous eachother contest, and the US is the only real player in the game.

How is there still a red scare? I don't want this to become a "Communism is evil because/Communism is better than Capitalism because" debate, that's not the point at hand.

The point at hand is: how can the US still say that it holds true to the ideals it does (Freedom, Democracy, etc.) and expect us to believe that these aren't anything more than catch words anymore?

Especially with the president admitting today that he authorized spying on American households ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4538286.stm ), and don't give me that it's-for-the-good-of-the-country bullshit, if it were for the good of the country then he had a DUTY to play it before CONGRESS, not in the backbasement of the CIA and the FBI.

And now the New York Times are claiming that the white house approached them about even publishing the information, adding to the ever-enormous list of attempts at media-control under the current administration's belt (who remembers this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gannon )

I'm fed up with it. I'm happy enough living in Canada, but I'm just barely in Canada. I'm a dual citizen, and I live in a border town.

Somebody assumed I was an American tonight, and the first thing I felt was offended.

And it shouldn't be like that.

Not because someone ordered a communist book, not because there's a culture-war going on between the left and the right.

Not now.

Not ever.


 
addi Posted: Sun Dec 18 07:30:54 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  CriminalSaint said:

>Somebody assumed I was an American tonight, and the first thing I felt was offended.

Somebody once thought I was Canadian when I was traveling in Australia, and the first thing I felt was aroused.

>And it shouldn't be like that.

you're correct.


It's an age old debate about the power and limitations government should have.
On one hand you don't want to tie the hands of those in power so much that they can't adequately protect the citizens from those that would harm them. On the other side of the coin you don't want a government with no controls so that every citizen's personal business becomes the governments business..especially when you hold a different viewpoint than those in power.
It's a hard balancing act, and made all the much harder by the actions of the terrorists.
Having said that though, I am greatly concerned about this administrations secret and unrestricted abuse of that power. I think if we had a clue about even 50% of the things that go on behind our backs we'd be very frightened.






 
FN Posted: Sun Dec 18 07:35:44 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  How much have you guys heard about the CIA flights in Europe and the supposed secret prisons.





Also, can anybody tell me why the US flies prisoners to 3rd party countries for no apparent reason, because as you all know, torture isn't part of the plan, but I just don't understand why you would fly an iraqi who has never been outside of his country to Egypt for no reason at all besides burning some fuel, for example.

Also, where does everybody stand on the use of mercenaries?


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun Dec 18 08:24:59 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>CriminalSaint said:
>
>>Somebody assumed I was an American tonight, and the first thing I felt was offended.
>
>Somebody once thought I was Canadian when I was traveling in Australia, and the first thing I felt was aroused.
>
>>And it shouldn't be like that.
>
>you're correct.
>
>
>It's an age old debate about the power and limitations government should have.
>On one hand you don't want to tie the hands of those in power so much that they can't adequately protect the citizens from those that would harm them. On the other side of the coin you don't want a government with no controls so that every citizen's personal business becomes the governments business..especially when you hold a different viewpoint than those in power.
>It's a hard balancing act, and made all the much harder by the actions of the terrorists.
>Having said that though, I am greatly concerned about this administrations secret and unrestricted abuse of that power. I think if we had a clue about even 50% of the things that go on behind our backs we'd be very frightened.
>
What secret and unrestricted use of power would that be ?
The left wingers are running full speed and screaming about this "unauthorized" use of power to eavesdrop on Americans, yet none of them mention that the only ones who were eavesdroped on were those with KNOWN ties to Al Qaeda and then it was only their overseas communications. Those two little facts seem to make no difference to them.


 
addi Posted: Sun Dec 18 08:41:15 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>The left wingers are running full speed and screaming about this "unauthorized" use of power to eavesdrop on Americans

we just like to run around willy-nilly and scream for no good reason. It clears the sinuses.

Any person that thinks this adminstration would ever abuse its power needs to have their head checked. I mean, they've been nothing but open and candid about everything they do up to this point.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun Dec 18 08:59:49 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>ifihadahif said:
>
>>The left wingers are running full speed and screaming about this "unauthorized" use of power to eavesdrop on Americans
>
>we just like to run around willy-nilly and scream for no good reason. It clears the sinuses.
>
>Any person that thinks this adminstration would ever abuse its power needs to have their head checked. I mean, they've been nothing but open and candid about everything they do up to this point.
>
And the left wingers have been nothing, if not truthful and candid as well.

And you did not even pretend to address my point.


 
addi Posted: Sun Dec 18 09:24:28 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>And you did not even pretend to address my point.

: )
well of course I didn't. I'm dumb, but I'm not stupid.
You believe everything Bush does is justified and for the good of the country. You believe Liberals are whining babies that have absolutely no basis for bringing these issues to the forefront.
What could I possibly ever say that would make any difference to you, hif?

Answer: nothing

so I choose to treat your posts in defense of everything this administration does with a grain of salt.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun Dec 18 09:54:36 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>ifihadahif said:
>
>>And you did not even pretend to address my point.
>
>: )
>well of course I didn't. I'm dumb, but I'm not stupid.
>You believe everything Bush does is justified and for the good of the country. You believe Liberals are whining babies that have absolutely no basis for bringing these issues to the forefront.
>What could I possibly ever say that would make any difference to you, hif?
>
>Answer: nothing
>
>so I choose to treat your posts in defense of everything this administration does with a grain of salt.
>
In the first place, my rant was against left wingers, not moderate liberals, I feel somewhat chagrined that you would choose to identify yourself with left wingers.
In the second place, my point was a simple one.
What is wrong with monitoring the overseas communications of KNOWN affiliates of Al Qaeda in the US ?
This was not done on the sly, every congressional committe head and all the congressional leaders, of BOTH parties were briefed on this many many times.
You would have to be an idiot or terrorist sympathizer to object to this, don't you think ?



 
addi Posted: Sun Dec 18 12:04:22 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>In the first place, my rant was against left wingers, not moderate liberals, I feel somewhat chagrined that you would choose to identify yourself with left wingers.

charined...I like that word
: )

and, I've said it before, I like you too, hif. God help me...but I just can't be mad at you.

*I don't particularly like political labels attached to me (I'm guilty of doing it to others). I'm radical left wing on some issues, moderate on some, and slightly conservative on others.



 
DanSRose Posted: Sun Dec 18 12:13:19 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I'm feeling very namby-pamby about torture. Especially since the American government has to bend and fold the rules into a cute little origami rack to get what they want, not necessarily what works. Also, wiretaps on American citizens- for some unknown reason that's making me feel a bit 'uneasy'. And the calling out on those who dissent and saying they are helping the terrorists.

I just feel uneasy that this president has been showing little to no remorse on the effects of the last 5 years. With everything that has happened, from Iraq to Katrina, from, terrorism to a toilet economy, from Ken Lay to Delay, he's been unchanging in his tactics and approach.
If the situation changes (which it has) and those who in charge either stay the course or falter, panic, and line themselves with those who will push the truth away from light (which they have done), why should I trust them or have any faith in them at all?


 
beetlebum Posted: Sun Dec 18 12:23:23 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Since when has an administration *not* abused its power?

I'm not saying that the abuse of power should be condoned; I just don't understand why everyone is up in arms about it now, as though it's something new.




 
libra Posted: Sun Dec 18 12:38:08 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  beetlebum said:
>Since when has an administration *not* abused its power?
>
>I'm not saying that the abuse of power should be condoned; I just don't understand why everyone is up in arms about it now, as though it's something new.
>


because the day people become complacent is the day we end up in 1984.


 
Posted: Sun Dec 18 13:28:06 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Just try and tell me you weren't more satisfied with your government in 1997.

It's a downhill battle from here, too.


 
addi Posted: Sun Dec 18 15:35:12 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  beetlebum said:
>Since when has an administration *not* abused its power?

they all have to some extent. But it's a matter of to what extent. My personal belief is that we haven't seen this kind of systematic abuse since the Nixon admin.


 
beetlebum Posted: Sun Dec 18 16:08:46 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>beetlebum said:
>>Since when has an administration *not* abused its power?
>
>they all have to some extent. But it's a matter of to what extent. My personal belief is that we haven't seen this kind of systematic abuse since the Nixon admin.

I disagree. The Clinton Administration was just as corrupt, but it was better at covering its trail, and additionally, involved foreign governments as opposed to civil rights. Perhaps what bothers people is simply corruption that curtails civil rights, but I remember three years ago when a professor I knew was investigated for suspected terrorist activity after ordering books on terrorism from Amazon. (He was an International Relations/ International Security professor.) Even within this administration, this kind of stuff isn't new.

I agree that we shouldn't be complacent, but for those of you who disagree with complacency, what do you do about it? How many people here vote at the local, state, and federal level and lobby their government officials for change?

I'm not saying that what the government is doing is right; I just don't understand why the anger now, as opposed to yesterday. That's all I was wondering, unless people are more upset now because there have been more reports or the reports they've heard have been more egregious.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun Dec 18 16:24:55 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Typical liberal doublespeak !
Everyone can shriek about it but not one of you has addressed the fact that no laws were broken and:

What is wrong with monitoring the overseas communications of KNOWN affiliates of Al Qaeda in the US ?

Why is this a bad thing ?





 
Mesh Posted: Sun Dec 18 16:57:35 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>How much have you guys heard about the CIA flights in Europe and the supposed secret prisons.
>
>
>
>
>
>Also, can anybody tell me why the US flies prisoners to 3rd party countries for no apparent reason, because as you all know, torture isn't part of the plan, but I just don't understand why you would fly an iraqi who has never been outside of his country to Egypt for no reason at all besides burning some fuel, for example.
>


Because torture IS being used. I don't really believe any government in the world involved in some kind of conflict or one that is facing widespread organized crime or terrorism DOESN'T use torture.


>Also, where does everybody stand on the use of mercenaries?

Shameful, but not surprising.


 
addi Posted: Sun Dec 18 18:53:57 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>Typical liberal doublespeak !
>Everyone can shriek about it but not one of you has addressed the fact that no laws were broken and:

I'm going to puke...but not on my computer : )

Try finding a fair web site, hif. One that doesn't have a particular slant towards the left or the right and read about the unethical, questionable, illadvised, or downright illegal activities this admin has undertaken over the past 5 years. They're out there..trust me, but you have to WANT to know the truth. If your mind is already made up that Bush has done nothing wrong then this activity is pointless. Don't let your ideology blind you.
I don't.
For example you know exactly what I think about this war, but there are some democrats out there right now calling for an immediate pullout of Iraq. I think they're wrong. I think that would be a bad move given the present chaos over there now.
I'm open minded, hif.
I understand that the party I fervently support is made up of humans that can make some bad calls.
You have yet to critisize ANYTHING this president has done (of any substance).
Let me clue you in on reality: Bush Rice, Rumsfeld, Cheney, are not deities. They are just like you and me.


 
addi Posted: Sun Dec 18 19:00:59 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  beetlebum said:

>I disagree. The Clinton Administration was just as corrupt,

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
But the above statement is complete nonsense in my opinion.
Did the Clinton admin do anything corrupt. I have no doubt they did. But to compare Clinton to what's going on now is silly, and surprising coming from you.
How many lives were lost from Clinton's corrupt behavior?
How many lives are (and will be lost) from Bush's lies, half-truths, and misinformation about why we got into this war?
Do you see a qualitative difference between the two?

: (


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun Dec 18 19:30:32 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>beetlebum said:
>
>>I disagree. The Clinton Administration was just as corrupt,
>
>You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
>But the above statement is complete nonsense in my opinion.
>Did the Clinton admin do anything corrupt. I have no doubt they did. But to compare Clinton to what's going on now is silly, and surprising coming from you.
>How many lives were lost from Clinton's corrupt behavior?
>How many lives are (and will be lost) from Bush's lies, half-truths, and misinformation about why we got into this war?
>Do you see a qualitative difference between the two?
>
>: (
If Clinton had done ANYTHING to combat Al Qaeda, then we probably wouldn't even be in this war.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun Dec 18 19:31:56 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>ifihadahif said:
>>Typical liberal doublespeak !
>>Everyone can shriek about it but not one of you has addressed the fact that no laws were broken and:
>
>I'm going to puke...but not on my computer : )
>
>Try finding a fair web site, hif. One that doesn't have a particular slant towards the left or the right and read about the unethical, questionable, illadvised, or downright illegal activities this admin has undertaken over the past 5 years. They're out there..trust me, but you have to WANT to know the truth. If your mind is already made up that Bush has done nothing wrong then this activity is pointless. Don't let your ideology blind you.
>I don't.
>For example you know exactly what I think about this war, but there are some democrats out there right now calling for an immediate pullout of Iraq. I think they're wrong. I think that would be a bad move given the present chaos over there now.
>I'm open minded, hif.
>I understand that the party I fervently support is made up of humans that can make some bad calls.
>You have yet to critisize ANYTHING this president has done (of any substance).
>Let me clue you in on reality: Bush Rice, Rumsfeld, Cheney, are not deities. They are just like you and me.
>
Yet still more doublespeak.
How about addressing my point concerning the eavesdropping on American households that was the original point of this thread ?


 
addi Posted: Sun Dec 18 19:41:00 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>If Clinton had done ANYTHING to combat Al Qaeda, then we probably wouldn't even be in this war.

Watch the frickin' news. Read the paper. Go to the internet. Learn from some source other than your right wing propoganda spin mongers.

Clinton did do things to combat Al Qaeda. In fact, look up "Rendition" the policy of capturing suspected Al Qaeda terrorists by the CIA and flying them to various countries to be tortured. Clinton started that program. Bush expanded it.
Know what you're talking about before you make false claims.



 
addi Posted: Sun Dec 18 19:53:43 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>Yet still more doublespeak.

your "liberal doublespeak" statements are becoming repetitive. It sounds like something someone would say when they don't have any real facts to back up their point.

>How about addressing my point concerning the eavesdropping on American households that was the original point of this thread ?

Reread the thread over, hif. Look at my posts. Did I ever make any comment, good and negative, about the eavesdropping practice? Argue with Crim or someone that has disagreed with you on the topic. I prefer to read more about a topic, try to see both sides of the story, mull it over, before I fly off the handle and post things out of ignorance. Truth is, I don't have enough information about the practice yet to come to a well reasoned opinion on the matter. My points of disagreement with you on this thread were about corruption and the Bush administration, not about eavesdropping on citizens. I'm not avoiding discussion with you for any other reason than I don't know enough about it to feel comfortable making a point. When I do, if I do, have no fear...I will speak.
: )


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun Dec 18 20:29:11 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>ifihadahif said:
>
>>Yet still more doublespeak.
>
>your "liberal doublespeak" statements are becoming repetitive. It sounds like something someone would say when they don't have any real facts to back up their point.
>
>>How about addressing my point concerning the eavesdropping on American households that was the original point of this thread ?
>
>Reread the thread over, hif. Look at my posts. Did I ever make any comment, good and negative, about the eavesdropping practice? Argue with Crim or someone that has disagreed with you on the topic. I prefer to read more about a topic, try to see both sides of the story, mull it over, before I fly off the handle and post things out of ignorance. Truth is, I don't have enough information about the practice yet to come to a well reasoned opinion on the matter. My points of disagreement with you on this thread were about corruption and the Bush administration, not about eavesdropping on citizens. I'm not avoiding discussion with you for any other reason than I don't know enough about it to feel comfortable making a point. When I do, if I do, have no fear...I will speak.
>: )
Ok, that's all I wanted. Thank you.
Would you even concede that the facts as they are known at this time that nothing wrong or out of sorts has been done concerning this issue ?

Now as for getting all the info and facts before flying off the handle ?
May I remind you of Karl Rove and Valerie Plame ?
Nuff said.
:-)


 
addi Posted: Sun Dec 18 20:38:08 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>Ok, that's all I wanted. Thank you.
>Would you even concede that the facts as they are known at this time that nothing wrong or out of sorts has been done concerning this issue ?

No. I won't concede anything untill I know more about it. I don't know the "facts" at this time yet.

>Now as for getting all the info and facts before flying off the handle ?
>May I remind you of Karl Rove and Valerie Plame ?

You lost me on this one, hif. I don't know what you're referring to for sure. If you mean Rove is innocent of any wrongdoing concerning Plame I would have to respond that the last I heard the investigation is still ongoing and that indicments may or may not be coming in the future under a new grand jury. Any conclusion about Rove's innocence therefore seems a bit premature.



 
beetlebum Posted: Mon Dec 19 00:06:17 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>beetlebum said:
>
>>I disagree. The Clinton Administration was just as corrupt,
>
>You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
>But the above statement is complete nonsense in my opinion.
>Did the Clinton admin do anything corrupt. I have no doubt they did. But to compare Clinton to what's going on now is silly, and surprising coming from you.
>How many lives were lost from Clinton's corrupt behavior?


Blargh. I was just referring to the Clinton Administration's "relationship" with generous Indonesian banking officials and illegal foreign campaign contributions. Genocide in East Timor resulted in the immediate loss of 1/3 of the population (only 200,000 people or thereabouts ) in 1975 (under the Ford Administration's support and the go-ahead from America's own Satan, Henry Kissinger) . The Clinton Administration through the channel of the Pentagon privately maintained support for the Suharto Regime, and some attribute the public denouncement/private support to Clinton's friendly relations with Indonesian money.

During his campaign he called the situation "unconscionable". During his reign, he did nothing, until rather heated criticism lead him to finally denounce Indonesia's illegal invasion, occupation, repression, systematic terror, etc. But only after the Republican party called Clinton and the DNC on their illegal campaign contributions.

Which isn't to say that the Republican party has participated in the same bullshit.

All I'm saying is this: I suppose I'm too jaded to think that the Bush administration is more corrupt than the Clinton, or Bush Sr.'s, etc.

Frankly, I just don't care anymore. :o)


 
DanSRose Posted: Mon Dec 19 02:14:11 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I want Nixon back. Measuring him now- he's a neat little Democrat. Yeah... Like on Futurama.
President Nixon's Head in a Jar on a DestructoBot. At least he's upfront about It.
He'd running against He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named.
http://goats.com/store/rfv.html
http://goats.com/archive/030808.html


 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Dec 19 06:50:25 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>ifihadahif said:
>
>>Ok, that's all I wanted. Thank you.
>>Would you even concede that the facts as they are known at this time that nothing wrong or out of sorts has been done concerning this issue ?
>
>No. I won't concede anything untill I know more about it. I don't know the "facts" at this time yet.
>
OK, here are the facts:
Dubya authorized the eavesdropping on American households of KNOWN Al Qaeda associates. The eavesdropping is only for their overseas communications and it is done only by the National Security Agency. He has briefed the leading members of Congress in both parties and the leaders of the pertinent committess in both Congress and the Senate.
This is what is out there now, and that is way more than was out there when you convicted Mr. Rove.

>>Now as for getting all the info and facts before flying off the handle ?
>>May I remind you of Karl Rove and Valerie Plame ?
>
>You lost me on this one, hif. I don't know what you're referring to for sure. If you mean Rove is innocent of any wrongdoing concerning Plame I would have to respond that the last I heard the investigation is still ongoing and that indicments may or may not be coming in the future under a new grand jury. Any conclusion about Rove's innocence therefore seems a bit premature.
>
That very same logic would demand that any conclusion about his guilt would also be premature don't you think ?
And you did say he was "guilty guilty guilty", did you not ?

I might point out that so far no one can even prove a crime was committed, much less who might be guilty.


 
addi Posted: Mon Dec 19 08:00:00 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Hif, I'm beginning to have a very hard time even taking you serious anymore on political topics. Your never ending diatribe against anyone critisizing Bush (or his associates) has become cartoonish.
First of all (and I have a bad taste in my mouth for even responding to this), don't bother to point out the "facts" of any political topic to me. To put it bluntly, I can't associate you and the word "fact" together in the same sentence anymore. You have too long a track record of getting the "facts" from sources that are anything but objective and unbiased.

Secondly, the Rove/Plame verdict is not in yet, is it? Don't throw his innocence in my face untill Fitzgerald shuts the book on this matter.
And my "guilt, guilt, guilt" of Rove was referring to much more than this incident. Watch the movie "Bush's Brain" and you'll see why I pronounce the man guilty of having no moral compass..no ethics. He's a scumbag.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Dec 19 08:24:52 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>Hif, I'm beginning to have a very hard time even taking you serious anymore on political topics. Your never ending diatribe against anyone critisizing Bush (or his associates) has become cartoonish.
>First of all (and I have a bad taste in my mouth for even responding to this), don't bother to point out the "facts" of any political topic to me. To put it bluntly, I can't associate you and the word "fact" together in the same sentence anymore. You have too long a track record of getting the "facts" from sources that are anything but objective and unbiased.
>
>Secondly, the Rove/Plame verdict is not in yet, is it? Don't throw his innocence in my face untill Fitzgerald shuts the book on this matter.
>And my "guilt, guilt, guilt" of Rove was referring to much more than this incident. Watch the movie "Bush's Brain" and you'll see why I pronounce the man guilty of having no moral compass..no ethics. He's a scumbag.
>
Now there you go getting your panties in a wad simply because I catch you applying a double standard. I would like to point out to you that Fox News is only one of many sources for my news, yet you continue to berate me for that. I would invite you to refute any of the facts I have listed on this thread.
When you declared Mr. Rove guilty it was pretty obvious you were talking about Ms. Plame and no one else. And this was far before any actual "facts" had come in. I do however, believe that you may have meant in your heart that he was guilty of many other things. Oh, that black heart of yours that lusts for Dubya to fail at everything he does !
You don't seem to grasp the concept of loyalty. I know that Dubya is not perfect, he makes mistakes.
The thing is, he's my guy, the one I have chosen to lead my country because I believe in him. And when he makes a mistake,I'm not going to call for his head. You don't seem to understand that, and you even think I'm less intelligent than you because of that.
That arrogance is your undoing.
You guys keep talking about how stupid Dubya is out of one side of your mouth, and then you give him credit for being smart enough to fool both houses of congress and the whole populace of the the country,into believing Saddam had WMD's coming out of the other side of your mouths.
You can't have it both ways.


 
addi Posted: Mon Dec 19 09:43:10 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>That arrogance is your undoing.

If I'm going to berate you here then I know I have to expect the shit to be flung back at me.

for the record: I take no joy in Bush's demise. When he fucks up it ends up affecting me directly or indirectly in a negative way. I would like to be proud of America again, whether it's a dem or a repub in office. Right now Bush is an embarassment to me. He makes me ashamed sometimes to be called an American.



 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Dec 19 10:36:45 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>ifihadahif said:
>
>>That arrogance is your undoing.
>
>If I'm going to berate you here then I know I have to expect the shit to be flung back at me.
>
>for the record: I take no joy in Bush's demise. When he fucks up it ends up affecting me directly or indirectly in a negative way. I would like to be proud of America again, whether it's a dem or a repub in office. Right now Bush is an embarassment to me. He makes me ashamed sometimes to be called an American.
>
That's your prerogative and I am equally embarrassed by the shit coming from the mouths of the liberals in this country.
So once again, we agree to disagree.


 
Posted: Mon Dec 19 11:54:13 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  :(

Doors are open for you guys in Windsor, Canada, one way or the other. Hell, you can sneak into the Superbowl later this year if you're so inclined.


 
addi Posted: Wed Dec 21 16:14:17 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  http://daoureport.salon.com/synopsis.aspx?synopsisId=a6da2e05-c808-4f7e-9ab2-3d2a01a82a15

What happens in America when you mix weak Democratic leadership, apathetic citizens, and lying weasel Republicans in the White House? He hits the nail squarely on the head with this article.


*You just couldn't leave well enough alone, could you Addi. For shame.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Wed Dec 21 19:42:06 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>http://daoureport.salon.com/synopsis.aspx?synopsisId=a6da2e05-c808-4f7e-9ab2-3d2a01a82a15
>
>What happens in America when you mix weak Democratic leadership, apathetic citizens, and lying weasel Republicans in the White House? He hits the nail squarely on the head with this article.
>
>
>*You just couldn't leave well enough alone, could you Addi. For shame.
>
Yeah, the man the dems continually label as being stupid just somehow defeats them every time.
How could that be ?
I mean really, if he's as stupid as you say he is, what does that say about the dems ?


 
addi Posted: Wed Dec 21 20:30:42 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>I mean really, if he's as stupid as you say he is, what does that say about the dems ?

What it says, my fine feathered friend, is that there are literally millions of brain dead American voters, that have lost the ability to disern the truth from bullshit.






 
FN Posted: Thu Dec 22 05:15:05 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  What he says, hif, if you weren't so selective about what you read and what you read over lol, is that democrats are divided, and therefor are conquered, and that the reason why the republicans win is that they do nothing but spin everything and tell even the most blatant lies because they know that "the average american" doesn't have a clue to what is really going on and they just let it cool down.

We all know the Hitler quote, the bigger the lie, the more easily people will believe it. Bush seems to know his history well.

I sure if you look really close, the republican elephant is branded with a swastika.


 
addi Posted: Thu Dec 22 06:32:37 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>What he says, hif, if you weren't so selective about what you read and what you read over lol, is that democrats are divided, and therefor are conquered, and that the reason why the republicans win is that they do nothing but spin everything and tell even the most blatant lies because they know that "the average american" doesn't have a clue to what is really going on and they just let it cool down.

correct. thank you for that summary. It really isn't that I think Bush is so stupid; it takes a certain kind of intelligence to pull off what he has. What I'm really starting to believe is that Bush and his gang are sociopathic, dictorial, power hungry liars...and that's different than stupid.



 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Dec 22 07:06:36 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  There's just gotta be something wrong with someone who thinks the average American is a dumbass and by default, that makes him smarter than most.

The powerbrokers in your party are the biggest liars of all, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, come on, stop drinking the Kool Aid.


 
addi Posted: Thu Dec 22 07:43:00 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>There's just gotta be something wrong with someone who thinks the average American is a dumbass and by default, that makes him smarter than most.

Illogical conclusion, but that doesn't surprise me.

>come on, stop drinking the Kool Aid.

I can live with being called a Kool Aid drinker (as long as it's not wild cherry flavored...YUCK).

You and your right wing fanatics however have been dipping into the grain alcohol moonshine way too much, and it's turned your brains into mush.
So there!
: )


Now I say "G'Day to you, Sir..Good day!"


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Dec 22 08:02:25 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>ifihadahif said:
>>There's just gotta be something wrong with someone who thinks the average American is a dumbass and by default, that makes him smarter than most.
>
>Illogical conclusion, but that doesn't surprise me.
>
>>come on, stop drinking the Kool Aid.
>
>I can live with being called a Kool Aid drinker (as long as it's not wild cherry flavored...YUCK).
>
>You and your right wing fanatics however have been dipping into the grain alcohol moonshine way too much, and it's turned your brains into mush.
>So there!
>: )
>
>
>Now I say "G'Day to you, Sir..Good day!"
>
When you take the roof off, your car looks just like the one that came with Malibu Barbie !
:-)


 
FN Posted: Thu Dec 22 08:55:12 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>When you take the roof off, your car looks just like the one that came with Malibu Barbie !
>:-)

haha

I heard Ken doesn't have a penis.


 
mat_j Posted: Thu Dec 22 20:29:18 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Well i've never seen a commie drink a glass of water!


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Dec 27 09:55:47 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  CriminalSaint said:
>US Federal Agents visit a University Senior who requested Mao Tse-Tung's tome on communism: http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/12-05/12-17-05/a09lo650.htm
>
>Is this really America?
>
>Because the way things are going, it's almost as plausible these days to think that there's some enormous joke at the top of the pyramid that the rest of us just aren't getting.
>
>It's like a who-can-out-ridiculous eachother contest, and the US is the only real player in the game.
>
>How is there still a red scare? I don't want this to become a "Communism is evil because/Communism is better than Capitalism because" debate, that's not the point at hand.
>
>The point at hand is: how can the US still say that it holds true to the ideals it does (Freedom, Democracy, etc.) and expect us to believe that these aren't anything more than catch words anymore?
>
>Especially with the president admitting today that he authorized spying on American households ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4538286.stm ), and don't give me that it's-for-the-good-of-the-country bullshit, if it were for the good of the country then he had a DUTY to play it before CONGRESS, not in the backbasement of the CIA and the FBI.
>
>And now the New York Times are claiming that the white house approached them about even publishing the information, adding to the ever-enormous list of attempts at media-control under the current administration's belt (who remembers this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gannon )
>
>I'm fed up with it. I'm happy enough living in Canada, but I'm just barely in Canada. I'm a dual citizen, and I live in a border town.
>
>Somebody assumed I was an American tonight, and the first thing I felt was offended.
>
>And it shouldn't be like that.
>
>Not because someone ordered a communist book, not because there's a culture-war going on between the left and the right.
>
>Not now.
>
>Not ever.
>
Don't be so quick to believe something just because you want to.
It's total bullshit.

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/12-05/12-24-05/a01lo719.htm



 



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