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I hate to do this but i'm bored
mat_j Posted: Wed Apr 26 13:20:07 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Does anybody think that America will 'Balkanise' and how long do you reckon it will be until it does?


 
addi Posted: Wed Apr 26 13:40:11 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Sorry for the stupidity of this question, but explain exactly what you mean by balkanize please. I think i have an idea, but I'll be damned if I'm going to write down my thoughts and then discover you meant something totally different
: )


 
beetlebum Posted: Wed Apr 26 13:46:47 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  no. if it does, it will be a very very very long time before it does.


 
addi Posted: Wed Apr 26 14:05:07 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  since Beetlebum didn't help me either I decided to get off my lazy ass and look it up. It meant what I assumed it did, but I wanted to be sure.

I think it would take a very serious unforeseen event to cause something like that to happen here. Otherwise I'm with Beetlebum and say it's not going to happen.
I think when (and if) we go down as a country it will be as one country...and not a fractured group of smaller states.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Wed Apr 26 14:25:24 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  No, not even close.
We may be politically polarized, but I don't think were anywhere close to Balkanising.

Even as we speak the Bush administration is secretly working on a plan to dispose of all the left wingers in a massive cave in the Rockies. Once they are all deposited in said cave, the entrance will be sealed and all our problems will be solved.
Yay !
:-)


 
Kira Posted: Wed Apr 26 14:25:38 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I don't see that happening, at least not within the next four or five hundred years, after which time I can hardly imgagine what the US will look like.


 
Mesh Posted: Wed Apr 26 14:49:44 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Are you refering to the increasing hispanic demographic?



If so, then no. Not in our lifetimes anyways.


If not, then mark me dummy and send me to my room with no dessert.


 
addi Posted: Wed Apr 26 15:44:58 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>Even as we speak the Bush administration is secretly working on a plan to dispose of all the left wingers in a massive cave in the Rockies.

sign me up! I love the rockies.

*now if he was to send all us to Aladambama I'd be singing a different tune.


 
Mesh Posted: Thu Apr 27 01:57:08 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I change my answer. It will all start on May 1st, 2006. You'd all better start stockpiling food, water, fuel, and AMMUNITION right now. Make haste, the time is nigh.


 
choke Posted: Fri Apr 28 16:22:46 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Mr. Misses said:
>I change my answer. It will all start on May 1st, 2006. You'd all better start stockpiling food, water, fuel, and AMMUNITION right now. Make haste, the time is nigh.

Can you wait until June 30? May 1st just isn't good for me.


 
Mesh Posted: Sat Apr 29 00:21:03 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  You'll have to ask the communists if they'll postpone it.


 
mat_j Posted: Tue May 2 17:31:35 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I don't know, it depends on how long US stays on top, so long as there's a reason to stay behind Washington the nation will, but once it stops serving it's purpose there doesn't seem a point in having a continental government to me when individual pieces of the nation could do so well alone.

It happened in Europe for tiny rubbish pieces of land under a hundred KM in diameter, the idea of New England for example being an entity unto itself is intriguing because it could survive and make a lot of money possibly even be richer than a future troubled united states?

The following is complete fantasy as the human sciences don't lend themselves well to prediction but i don't think it's an increible stretch of the imagination to see a divided America- Regional governments in each subdivided zone, nominal support to a president in Washington that still exists but on a greatly reduced role.






 
addi Posted: Tue May 2 17:49:23 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I think anything is possible down the road, mat, but I just don't see in happening anytime in the near future...unless something cataclismic happens. The cultural and ethnic history of Europe is so different than the U.S. that I don't see it as a strong argument to compare the two geopolitical areas.

Having said that though I could see Mexico annexing a large part of the southern U.S. if things continue as they are.
Those hispanics are breeding faster than rabbits and spreading quicker than Roseanne Barr taking her girdle off.

: )


 
Mesh Posted: Tue May 2 20:26:57 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>
>Having said that though I could see Mexico annexing a large part of the southern U.S. if things continue as they are.
>Those hispanics are breeding faster than rabbits and spreading quicker than Roseanne Barr taking her girdle off.
>
>


You better start tanning now. And getting some black hair dye. They have their eyes on the gem that is Georgia, I'm sure of it.


 
libra Posted: Tue May 2 21:23:19 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I think it could happen. I mean, californians always joke about leaving the union...but I think that there is not actually all that much keeping the country united. At least I don't feel it here at all.

Personally, if the US does stay together, I see things changing more along the lines of A Handmaid's Tale (but less extreme).


 
addi Posted: Tue May 2 21:26:43 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Mr. Misses said:

>You better start tanning now. And getting some black hair dye. They have their eyes on the gem that is Georgia, I'm sure of it.

Remember the Al a Mode!

Actually it would probably be an improvement over what we have right now. And I have a weakness for mexican food, tequilla, and lawn maintenece anyway.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue May 2 21:26:48 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  mat_j said:
>I don't know, it depends on how long US stays on top, so long as there's a reason to stay behind Washington the nation will, but once it stops serving it's purpose there doesn't seem a point in having a continental government to me when individual pieces of the nation could do so well alone.
>
>It happened in Europe for tiny rubbish pieces of land under a hundred KM in diameter, the idea of New England for example being an entity unto itself is intriguing because it could survive and make a lot of money possibly even be richer than a future troubled united states?
>
>The following is complete fantasy as the human sciences don't lend themselves well to prediction but i don't think it's an increible stretch of the imagination to see a divided America- Regional governments in each subdivided zone, nominal support to a president in Washington that still exists but on a greatly reduced role.
>
That's pretty much what our founding fathers had in mind, each state being autonomous and all. The federal government was not supposed to be the seat of power, but that is how things evolved.


 
addi Posted: Tue May 2 21:41:17 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>That's pretty much what our founding fathers had in mind, each state being autonomous and all. The federal government was not supposed to be the seat of power, but that is how things evolved.

Actually it depends on which founding mothers you are talking about. The federalists and anti-federals (Jefferson and Hamilton) fought things out in the initial stages, but most realized the need for a strong central government, tempered by a limited amount of autonomy given to the state governments. Regional differences between the northern and southern states were already realing it's ugly head even then, with the southern politicians generally wanting more power to the states so they could do as they wished with the slavery issue


 
beetlebum Posted: Wed May 3 03:33:24 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Yeah, I disagree with anyone who says that could happen even within the next three hundred years. The US has enjoyed military supremacy in the international arena and I highly doubt any state (California or otherwise) would break off of the United States and go it alone regardless of any internal strife simply because geopolitical considerations will always exist even if the pole of power shifts to Asia within the next hundred years or so.

Also, even if we hypothesize that California, having the 6th largest economy in the world (or something like that), broke off for greener pastures or whatever, it would have to combat the illegal immigrant population alone, *and* you can be sure that Oregon and Washington would start importing a helluva lot more (due to federal mandate as the Fed Gov would not want to pay an import tax and simultaneously want to keep all imports in the family, if ya see what I mean), thereby detracting (massively) from California's economic position. I'm not doubting California's natural resources, but other than its import/export function for the US, it is mainly a service economy anyway.

Finally, the only people that I can see that I would actually even consider the possibility of a break up of a Union have never lived anywhere else in the United States in their life. The United States has one of the most mobile populations in the world, and most people end up living in at least two states during their life, if not more. Also, most people's families are not all located in one small geographic space, and I think this alone would discourage any sort of state rivalries.

I can't believe I spent this much time answer this question. Haha.





PEOPLE FOR MISSOURI'S INDEPENDENCE, UNITE!




 
mat_j Posted: Wed May 3 16:38:14 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Addi says
The cultural and ethnic history of Europe is so different than the U.S. that I don't see it as a strong argument to compare the two geopolitical areas.


You and us are very similar, verrrry similar, Lets not forget we both see civilzation in the same terms- for the past 1,600 years all we've done is try to recreate Rome, right down to the little details, Americas moment in the sun is no different than that of any previous Europan power on a grand scale, the systems of government might be a little different (but only a little) but the process of aquisition and influence over so called lesser nations remains the same. You guys's involvement in Latin America and the middle east is no different to earlier British expansionism into the Carribbean or South east Asia and India.

America is undeniably European right to the blood flowing through your veins and the blue eyed genes of your Minnesotans. we are the same, we think the same, we act the same, we have the same dream, its just different from the top down.


 
addi Posted: Wed May 3 18:14:14 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  For a second there I thought you were saying you and me were the same and I thought, "hot damn! I'm just like Matty!"
but then i realized you were talking about nations.

I never meant to imply that there were no similarities. There are many of course. I was speaking of the much longer history you have of various nationalities fighting each other for control over relatively small areas. I think you also have to keep in mind the arbitrary political boundarys put in place after wars there, WWI and II in particular. That separated many ethnic, and religious groups and we've seen the outcome of those poorly thought out decisions in the 20th century and today. Outside of the Civil War we haven't had a major war fought on our soil, and that has spared us having to deal with changing geo-political boundaries.
I really do see America as a whole the same way I see France or Germany, or England as a whole...we're just occupying a larger land mass. I can't see something dividing us into separate smaller "nations" unless something really big happens down the road.

Now the debate over whether we are following the same road as Rome, or any other past great civilization, and soon heading into oblivion is a whole nuther subject...and one we probably agree on more than disagree.




 



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