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I'm suprised hif didn't make this topic.
Mesh Posted: Thu Jun 8 15:32:42 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/08/iraq.al.zarqawi/index.html



While, ok, good job that they got that shithead. If you ask me though, it doesn't make one bit of a difference in trying to crush the insurgency. The insurgencies based on political ideals and fanatic religious beliefs, not on one man.


 
FN Posted: Thu Jun 8 15:39:38 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Yeah, I think it's a bit like expecting to blow ronald mc donald up in order to make mcdonalds go away.


 
addi Posted: Thu Jun 8 15:47:57 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  you're right. He was a symptom of the insurgency...not a cause of it. While he was an important political figurehead, I seriously doubt this will have much effect of the killings there. It was interesting to hear though that oil prices dropped once the news broke of his death...due to his constant interuption of oil production facilities.

Regardless of the effects of this I'm still glad he's gone. He was a cold-blooded barbarian....and many other muslims in the middle east thought he was as well.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Jun 8 16:11:06 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  He was the top operating terrorist in the world. We got him and 8 of his closest aids.
It is a big deal.

How we got him is also a big deal. He was given up by his own people, that is a good sign.
His death will not crush the insurgency, but it will certainly cripple an already dying insurgency. The IED's have been happening with much less frequency every month, and the areas where they are able to operate are getting much smaller every month.


 
Mesh Posted: Thu Jun 8 16:17:09 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Oh, and I meant nothing by the title of the thread, hif. I just realized it could be construed as somewhat insulting.


Goddamn you, Mesh.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Jun 8 16:24:11 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Mr. Misses said:
>Oh, and I meant nothing by the title of the thread, hif. I just realized it could be construed as somewhat insulting.
>
>
>Goddamn you, Mesh.
>
No offense was taken, I didn't find it insulting at all.
Actually I was somewhat flattered. . . . .you sweet lovable thing.
:-)


 
addi Posted: Thu Jun 8 16:28:44 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  From the bottom of my deep deep heart I hope you're right, hif. But it's way too early to say it will have a positive effect on the killings there..and I include in that not only the deaths of our soldiers, but the deaths of iraqi citizens because that is part of the death toll this war has created. We opened that pandora's box once we invaded.


 
mat_j Posted: Thu Jun 8 16:32:48 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  He was a good fighter inshallah, we will continue to slaughter the infidel dog!


Praise Allah


Mahmood_j


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Jun 8 16:39:05 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>From the bottom of my deep deep heart I hope you're right, hif. But it's way too early to say it will have a positive effect on the killings there..and I include in that not only the deaths of our soldiers, but the deaths of iraqi citizens because that is part of the death toll this war has created. We opened that pandora's box once we invaded.
>
There have been more deaths by violence in Washinton DC than in Iraq this year.

There are a helluva lot less Iraqis dying now than when Saddam was in power.
He basically just harvested them and had them killed.


 
Mesh Posted: Thu Jun 8 16:49:35 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  mat_j said:
>He was a good fighter inshallah, we will continue to slaughter the infidel dog!
>
>
>Praise Allah
>
>
>Mahmood_j


Allah-u-Akbar Allah-u-Akbar
Allah-u-Akbar Allah-u-Akbar
Ashhadu an la ilaha ill Allah
Ashhadu an la ilaha ill Allah
Ashhadu anna Muhammad-ar-rasulullah
Ashhadu anna Muhammad-ar-rasulullah
Hayya 'alas salah Hayya 'alas salah
Hayya 'alal falah Hayya 'alal falah


Alhamdulillah Jazakallahu Khayran. Ameen





Mr. Miskeen


 
addi Posted: Thu Jun 8 17:02:51 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>There have been more deaths by violence in Washinton DC than in Iraq this year.

I had no intention of getting in a pissing match with you, but that was a stupid thing to say.
I'll tell you what...why don't you go find a mother and father in kentucky that lost a son over there, go knock on their door, and inform them that they should feel okay because, "There have been more deaths by violence in Washinton DC than in Iraq this year". See what kind of reaction you get.

I would suggest you follow that visit up with a trip to Bagdad, but since Iraqi's don't count as much as our dead soldiers it would be a moot point (the official military figure for the worth of an Iraqi citizen is $2,500 each...true figure, so they know how much to pay the family's for the "wrongful" deaths of family members by our soldiers).

I seriously question how you know for sure exactly how many iraqis were killed under Saddam, compared to how many will be dead by the time this debacle ends, but apart from that it doesn't lessen the horrible loss of life going on there daily now.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Jun 8 21:17:01 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>ifihadahif said:
>
>>There have been more deaths by violence in Washinton DC than in Iraq this year.
>
>I had no intention of getting in a pissing match with you, but that was a stupid thing to say.
>I'll tell you what...why don't you go find a mother and father in kentucky that lost a son over there, go knock on their door, and inform them that they should feel okay because, "There have been more deaths by violence in Washinton DC than in Iraq this year". See what kind of reaction you get.
>
>I would suggest you follow that visit up with a trip to Bagdad, but since Iraqi's don't count as much as our dead soldiers it would be a moot point (the official military figure for the worth of an Iraqi citizen is $2,500 each...true figure, so they know how much to pay the family's for the "wrongful" deaths of family members by our soldiers).
>
>I seriously question how you know for sure exactly how many iraqis were killed under Saddam, compared to how many will be dead by the time this debacle ends, but apart from that it doesn't lessen the horrible loss of life going on there daily now.
>
Exactly where did I say anyone should feel ok because DC was more violent than Iraq this year ? Go ahead show me where I said this.
I was merely trying to put it into perspective because our lovely liberal media would have you believe Iraq is the most dangerous place on earth, when in reality there are only 3 provinces in 18 that are not under control. Most of Iraq is pretty safe nowadays.

The fact is, that the horrible loss of life you speak of is way way way less than it was under Saddam.

As for how many Saddam killed compared to now, you can't seriously consider that it's even close now. Saddam was in power for 30yrs and we have uncovered nearly one million bodies in mass graves . . . . . so far. We are still finding new ones and expect to continue finding new ones for awhile.

As for that $2500 dollar figure, how many years salary do you think that is for most Iraqis ?
How much do you think they got from Saddam for wrongful death ?
Maybe you should take a trip to Iraq, you would find that almost to a man, they want us there for the long haul.




 
addi Posted: Thu Jun 8 23:23:39 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>Exactly where did I say anyone should feel ok because DC was more violent than Iraq this year ? Go ahead show me where I said this.

You don't have to literally say something without still implying a meaning behind your words. And I would be interested in you providing some objective data on that statement. I'm not saying it's false, but I would like to see documented proof that the number of violent deaths in DC from January to May in 2006 outnumbers all the deaths in Iraq so far this year.

>I was merely trying to put it into perspective because our lovely liberal media would have you believe Iraq is the most dangerous place on earth, when in reality there are only 3 provinces in 18 that are not under control. Most of Iraq is pretty safe nowadays.

Some provinces are safer than others (northern Kurdish territories I've heard), but it's definately a minority of places in Iraq that can be considered safe for our soldiers,and any place where sunni and shiites come into contact is explosive now. Read the news over the past 2 days.

>As for that $2500 dollar figure, how many years salary do you think that is for most Iraqis ?

I think you are in need of some smelling salts to regain a conscious. If Iraq soldiers occupied America and your wife was "wrongfully" killed by their soldiers would you feel justice was done by them giving you $2,500 as the value of her life? I'll even allow for the dollar value difference and more than triple that to $10,000. You could look me in the eyes and tell me that was a fair sum for the value of her life? The absurdity of thinking you can objectify a human's worth in dollars is beyond outrageous...and to add insult to injury it's a small amount...even considering Iraq's economic situation.

>Maybe you should take a trip to Iraq, you would find that almost to a man, they want us there for the long haul.

Do you just make things up as you write? You have no clue how they feel about us there "almost to the man". Some want us to stay for a long time because they know what will happen if we leave, NOT because they want us there; Some that aren't insurgents still want us out of their country ASAP, and others that sympathize with the Insurgents want us out yesterday. They don't want us still there, hif.

And how long is the "long haul"? Next year?...3 years?...20 years? Italy is pulling all of it's troops out this year. Other members of the "coalition of the willing" are, or have already pulled their soldiers out. Britain is cutting back. It will be 99.9% american money and soldiers supporting and occupying Iraq in the very near future.

And I can't even start talking about the state of training of Iraqi police so far...it's a fiasco. The leaders are afraid to tell them plans because they can't tell who is with them and who is going to go tell the insurgents about those operations.

Saddam had the sunnis in a hell..I'll grant you that. Now we have them in a different kind of hell. That hardly makes what we're doing less of a tragedy.
It's like saying "the guy before us would be torturing and then shooting tens of thousands of suspected enemies. We're only responsible for killing thousands of them and torturing a few hundred, so what we're doing is okay."


 
DanSRose Posted: Fri Jun 9 00:06:20 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>He was the top operating terrorist in the world. We got him and 8 of his closest aids.
>It is a big deal.
>
>How we got him is also a big deal. He was given up by his own people, that is a good sign.
>His death will not crush the insurgency, but it will certainly cripple an already dying insurgency. The IED's have been happening with much less frequency every month, and the areas where they are able to operate are getting much smaller every month.


Mr. Hif is awesome in this analyis. Yes. Especially with that "given up by his own people" dealio.


It reminds me about a bit on the Daily Show a week or 2 ago. The Shi'a police (maybe Sunni) were fully trained and given their deploy orders. The orders were to go to Sunni (maybe Shi'a) territory and serve and protect there. The Shi'a police (maybe Sunni) began screaming and tearing off their uniforms in revolt.




 
Mesh Posted: Fri Jun 9 00:32:58 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Hey. Hey. Let's all get along on my Birthday. That's your present to me.


Except Sweet P, that darling lady already gave me my presents.


 
addi Posted: Fri Jun 9 07:28:56 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Mr. Misses said:
>Hey. Hey. Let's all get along on my Birthday. That's your present to me.

yes, sir.
Hif and I argue all the time on politics, you know that...but we are still friends and will continue to be I'm sure. He calls me "Darling" and I think of him as my good sheep friend
: )

>Except Sweet P, that darling lady already gave me my presents.

We know, and what A sweet gift it was. You are the only person on GT she's done that for so you should feel very special today, meshie mesh.


 
FN Posted: Fri Jun 9 07:36:39 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I have it from good authority that other videos circulate as well, off the GT record.

All kinds of crazy things to be seen


 
addi Posted: Fri Jun 9 07:53:05 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>I have it from good authority that other videos circulate as well, off the GT record.


lol! Who would do such a horrible thing?!


 
ifihadahif Posted: Fri Jun 9 08:07:53 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>ifihadahif said:
>

>You don't have to literally say something without still implying a meaning behind your words. And I would be interested in you providing some objective data on that statement. I'm not saying it's false, but I would like to see documented proof that the number of violent deaths in DC from January to May in 2006 outnumbers all the deaths in Iraq so far this year.
>
http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110008392

Scroll down it's in the middle of the article. I was obviously wrong in my numbers, it's based on per capita.
But it doesn't change the fact that I was merely trying to put into perspective that Iraq is not what the media portrays it to be.
>
>Some provinces are safer than others (northern Kurdish territories I've heard), but it's definately a minority of places in Iraq that can be considered safe for our soldiers,and any place where sunni and shiites come into contact is explosive now. Read the news over the past 2 days.
>
I go one better, I speak to those who have been there.
>
I think you are in need of some smelling salts to regain a conscious. If Iraq soldiers occupied America and your wife was "wrongfully" killed by their soldiers would you feel justice was done by them giving you $2,500 as the value of her life? I'll even allow for the dollar value difference and more than triple that to $10,000. You could look me in the eyes and tell me that was a fair sum for the value of her life? The absurdity of thinking you can objectify a human's worth in dollars is beyond outrageous...and to add insult to injury it's a small amount...even considering Iraq's economic situation.
>
No on can objectify a human's worth in dollars. It's a war zone, people do get killed, it's part of the price they pay to build something better than what they had under Saddam.
How much do you think we should pay ?
What is the going rate that other armies have paid in the past or even today ?
What's that? nothing ? Yeah that's what I thought.
>
>Do you just make things up as you write? You have no clue how they feel about us there "almost to the man". Some want us to stay for a long time because they know what will happen if we leave, NOT because they want us there; Some that aren't insurgents still want us out of their country ASAP, and others that sympathize with the Insurgents want us out yesterday. They don't want us still there, hif.
>
One thing you refuse to acknowledge is that the overwhelming majority of the insurgents are not Iraqis, they are not freedom fighters.
As for whether or not they want us there ? Go talk to someone who has served there and ask him or her what kind of interaction he or she had with the locals.
>
>Saddam had the sunnis in a hell..I'll grant you that. Now we have them in a different kind of hell. That hardly makes what we're doing less of a tragedy.
>It's like saying "the guy before us would be torturing and then shooting tens of thousands of suspected enemies. We're only responsible for killing thousands of them and torturing a few hundred, so what we're doing is okay."
>
For you to equate what we're doing for the Iraqis with what Saddam was doing to them is an insult to our military.
You call it a hell ?
How many new schools have opened and how many kids are in school that never would have had the chance ?
How many new businesses are opening up every day there?
How many new sewage and water purifucation systems ?
How many improvements on the aging utilities to provide electricity ?
Footballs are rolling in the streets now instead of heads.
These people are not in misery as you would have us to believe.
No it's not Disneyworld over there, but it's not hell either.



 
addi Posted: Fri Jun 9 08:18:37 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I'm not pursuing this anymore today, friend. Not because I don't have any valid responses, but as my gift to meshie.


 
DanSRose Posted: Fri Jun 9 09:09:24 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>No it's not Disneyworld over there, but it's not hell either.


I just woke up and made me laugh and laugh and laugh for the visual is provided. Disneyland-Baghdad.
Disneyland-Kabul.

I'd so visit that. Just for the Ears. Awesome.


 



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