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A Monday Morning Topic
addi Posted: Mon Apr 2 09:26:54 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I make a habit of wathing "60 Minutes" when I can (I know..quite shocking, Dan). I have to admit that the reports they do are really getting depressing.
For example...
yet another story on how this administration and group of congressmen are screwing us over (it seems to be a daily event). They discussed the fiasco of the passage of the Medicare prescription drug bill in the U.S. House of Representatives, and how the pharmaceutical company lobbyists influenced the congressmen to pass it...and how it was kept open for voting on for 3 hours (instead of the usual 45 minutes) because it didn't have enough votes, and a lot of "arm twisting" had to take place for it to pass.
So once again big business saw to it that votes were bought in their favor to keep profits soaring and screw the average citizen.

Example 2: new reports on the melting of glaciers in south america and the antarctic..at an amazing rate. Not speculation or guessing, but verifiable factual data showing the effects of greenhouse gases since the industrial revolution. The poor chin strap penguins are dying off at an alarming rate because the young can't find krill to eat anymore, due to the warming of the ocean.

I know this must seem like all doom and gloom to you people...sorry about that. I just can't get myself to hide my head in the sand and pretend there aren't some very serious issues facing the world in the coming decades.
At the risk of sounding morbid, I know realistically that 30 years down the road I'll probably be gone from this world. What really gets to me is the kind of place we're leaving for my son and you much younger people that will have to deal with the serious consequences of our poor lack of judgement in the future.

sigh



*promise my next new thread will be full of happiness and joy


 
addi Posted: Mon Apr 2 09:52:58 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>I make a habit of wathing "60 Minutes"


actually I don't wath it, I watch it.
sheesh..sounds like I have a lisp

and I'm usually an upbeat positive optimistic person. Seeing everything ugly and negative in this world is a miserable way to live, and doesn't help solve any problem. It's just that now and then when my eyes are opened to the things happening all over the globe it makes me take a deep breath and wonder about humanity.
After I watch "American Idol" my outlook always improves though.

: )


 
DanSRose Posted: Mon Apr 2 10:08:18 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Also, the bees are dying.
http://origin.www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2007/03/30/bee-killer-070330.html

Hey! I watch 60 Minutes too. Nothing's wrong with 60 Minutes.


 
Posted: Mon Apr 2 11:37:33 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  the one thing that really scares me about the states is the state of health care.

I have a lot of trouble thinking of what it might be like not to just be able to see a doctor when something serious ails me, or to have to do guesswork at the pharmacy for lack of the money to see a professional.

This comes from a guy whose mother works as an anesthesiologist in Detroit - she's in agreement with me on the matter.

Social health care, I have no doubt, would add years and years to nearly the entire population of the united states. And private health care isn't the only way health corporations are screwing over the average citizen: ask the multitude of american senior citizens that make trips across the border to Canada to purchase medicine for lack of responsible pricing in their own country.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go skip class to watch my Tigers open up against the Jays. It's opening day, don'tchaknow.


 
Posted: Mon Apr 2 11:38:21 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  CriminalSaint said:
>the one thing that really scares me about the states

right, as if there's just one. Sorry about that.


 
addi Posted: Mon Apr 2 12:32:52 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  CriminalSaint said:

>And private health care isn't the only way health corporations are screwing over the average citizen: ask the multitude of american senior citizens that make trips across the border to Canada to purchase medicine for lack of responsible pricing in their own country.


My father-in-law literally drives to Mexico to get his needed meds. He also uses a dentist there because of the high cost in the states on his limited income.
stop and think about it for a minute. Does it hit you as completely absurd that millions of citizens must cross borders to meet basic health needs?


 
libra Posted: Mon Apr 2 14:30:39 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I know what you mean. Sometimes, when I just sit and think about it all, it feels like it's all just a huge fucking mess. I don't know what to do in response. Do I go for a different career, do I not have kids, do I move away?
When my boyfriend talks about how he wants to go back and live in Canada, it's always really tempting. As much as I love California and this area, the idea of raising kids in an environment like this scares me...health care, asthma as a result of pollution, the cost of living, the education system, the political system. I don't want to have a daughter and have her rights over her body taken away, or have a son and have him sent to the next war.

The lawyer I work for who lived and was affected by the McCarthy period, the civil rights movement, and now this, says that this period of time is worse than McCarthyism, and she says that this time around, unlike the 1950s, she wouldn't have won her supreme court case--it used to be that even though people had different ideas and opinions, they respected the law. When she made a sound argument about the status of a client as a 'communist' or not, she was heard and she won. Now there is a total disregard for law in all areas of the government.

It reminds me of the new John Mayer song:

me and all my friends
we're all misunderstood
they say we stand for nothing and
there's no way we ever could
now we see everything that's going wrong
with the world and those who lead it
we just feel like we don't have the means
to rise above and beat it

so we keep waiting
waiting on the world to change
we keep on waiting
waiting on the world to change

it's hard to beat the system
when we're standing at a distance
so we keep waiting
waiting on the world to change
now if we had the power
to bring our neighbors home from war
they would have never missed a Christmas
no more ribbons on their door
and when you trust your television
what you get is what you got
cause when they own the information, oh
they can bend it all they want


 
Kira Posted: Mon Apr 2 17:28:19 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Have you guys ever heard the term, "You get what you pay for"?


 
addi Posted: Mon Apr 2 18:16:17 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  once or twice : )

But it's an ambiguous phrase in this context..so explain what you mean by it..so I don't make the mistake of misinterpreting what you really mean by saying it.
thank you kindly


 
Kira Posted: Mon Apr 2 22:11:37 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Ah, well, I simply prefer good health care to "free" health care.


 
addi Posted: Mon Apr 2 22:38:51 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Kira said:
>Ah, well, I simply prefer good health care to "free" health care.

That qualifies as one of the more ignorant things posted here. Sorry, Kira for my bluntness, but the above statement has nothing to do with what was being talked about here. No one said anything about wanting, demanding, or expecting free health care. The point is to get good health care at a reasonable and fair cost...without price gouging and lining the pockets of greedy exects. Any business in the health care industry should be able to make profit enough to give its employees a fair salary. It's the absurd increases and gross profit margins some are making at the expense of the average citizen on a tight budget that upsets so many people. It's the health industy lobbyists outnumbering our congressman and paying their way into ledgislation that benefits them, with no concern for the the little guy that upsets so many people. If you don't think that's happening, or if you believe that it has to be this way to get good health care then you're dilluted by your Libertarian "No Government" idealogy.

Take a good look at the costs of health care and medicine over the past 20 years, and then tell me it's in step with people's incomes and ability to get decent care and treatment. For a small percentage of the wealthy it's no problem, but for the majority of hard working Americans it's a major financial burden that gets worse with each passing year.
It doesn't have to be this way. It doesn't have to be a choice between good health care or shitty free health care.


 
DanSRose Posted: Mon Apr 2 23:19:24 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  If I had no healthcare, and I had to way the quality of free healthcare against healthcare that would cost, let's say, half the cost of a year at a public state college, then I say Go Free Healthcare Go.
Really.


 
Kira Posted: Mon Apr 2 23:42:03 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Socialized health care is what was being discussed, so my post was relevant to the subject, sorry Addi. When people talk about wanting a social health care system, what they're saying is they want something for nothing.


addi said:
>
>The point is to get good health care at a reasonable and fair cost...without price gouging and lining the pockets of greedy exects. Any business in the health care industry should be able to make profit enough to give its employees a fair salary. It's the absurd increases and gross profit margins some are making at the expense of the average citizen on a tight budget that upsets so many people.

You know someday I'd like to meet a "greedy exect." I bet they have big black eyebrows that always slant downward, and big teeth and a gravelly voice and they fire someone every day just for fun.

Whatever anyone charges in this country, whatever their industry - it is the consumer's choice to pay. Drug companies and insurance companies, etc., are not holding health care hostage. They have a service to offer and the price at which they offer it is their incentive. If they are the only ones who can give this service, they earned that position. If I cannot pay it's my problem, and I will look elsewhere.


>It's the health industy lobbyists outnumbering our congressman and paying their way into ledgislation that benefits them, with no concern for the the little guy that upsets so many people. If you don't think that's happening, or if you believe that it has to be this way to get good health care then you're dilluted by your Libertarian "No Government" idealogy.

I don't think I can be diluted, I'm already like 85% water. But smartass comments aside - I admittedly do not follow the goings on in Washington as much as I should - believing that I can best change the world by doing well at my work and treating the people around me with respect - but I believe I would find that any finagling of new legislation by rich corporations is a cause of trying to relieve themselves of some of the pressure already put on them by preexisting laws. Honestly, why is it that whenever someone has a problem in this country the automatic response is, "There oughtta be a law"?

>
>Take a good look at the costs of health care and medicine over the past 20 years, and then tell me it's in step with people's incomes and ability to get decent care and treatment. For a small percentage of the wealthy it's no problem, but for the majority of hard working Americans it's a major financial burden that gets worse with each passing year.
>It doesn't have to be this way. It doesn't have to be a choice between good health care or shitty free health care.

It really does have to be this way. I know it would be nice if we could all share. But if I may be allowed one more smart remark, doctors, researchers, and the like, are not in it for their health.


 
Kira Posted: Mon Apr 2 23:46:18 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  On the subject of global warming, did anyone else hear that the ice sheet in Greenland is actually growing? It's much too late to go digging for an article - go google it yourself.


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Tue Apr 3 00:11:44 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>My father-in-law literally drives to Mexico to get his needed meds. He also uses a dentist there because of the high cost in the states on his limited income.
>stop and think about it for a minute. Does it hit you as completely absurd that millions of citizens must cross borders to meet basic health needs?

i found this an interesting contrast to all the immigrants that cross borders to work/ survive.


 
libra Posted: Tue Apr 3 02:21:44 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I will say one thing in response to Kira's post...

if the 'free market' actually worked the way it is supposed to, then perhaps there would be the ability to have people pay for health care and 'shop around' for the best plan.

however, when the government protects big business more than the general population, there is less competition between companies, prices are kept high with very little protection for regular people.

People don't get to shop around for health care because it is dominated by a few major corporations. There is no cheaper alternative.

Of course the pharmaceutical researchers and doctors are not all involved solely out of a unselfish motive, the issues at stake is not their own livelihood, as they would generally make enough whether in a socialist or other economy. The point is that it is the major corporations that are sucking money out of people. Doctors may make more in the US than in Canada, but it's not that huge of a disparity compared to the amount that corporate executives at major insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and hospitals are making off of overpriced healthcare.

And,

In a socialist country, it is not that the health care is 'free' but taxes are paid to cover health care costs for everyone.
Instead of paying thousands of dollars a year for health insurance, taxes go towards covering health care. So no, they're not asking for something for free, there is an understanding of a sort of 'social contract' in play.


 
libra Posted: Tue Apr 3 02:22:07 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  libra said:
>I will say one thing in response to Kira's post...
>

i guess it wasn't one thing...


 
addi Posted: Tue Apr 3 06:36:30 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Kira said:
>When people talk about wanting a social health care system, what they're saying is they want something for nothing.

No
When Libertarian's hear the words "Socialized Medicine" they think of people wanting something for nothing. There is no free health coverage anywhere. Either you have a system like ours or you pay for it in taxes. Neither is free. I don't want things to continue as they are here, nor do I want it replaced by extrememly high taxes...they're both essentially just different forms of the same thing. There is a middle ground whether you think so or not.

>You know someday I'd like to meet a "greedy exect." I bet they have big black eyebrows that always slant downward, and big teeth and a gravelly voice and they fire someone every day just for fun.

all this tells me is that you're living a very isolated sheltered life in the backwoods.


>Whatever anyone charges in this country, whatever their industry - it is the consumer's choice to pay. Drug companies and insurance companies, etc., are not holding health care hostage. They have a service to offer and the price at which they offer it is their incentive. If they are the only ones who can give this service, they earned that position. If I cannot pay it's my problem, and I will look elsewhere.

spoken by a youngster, woefully ignorant of what it's like to have to deal with the responsibilities of making ends meet with a mortgage, kids, and monthly bills on an average income. Millions of people shouldn't have to "look elsewhere" in another country to be able to afford basic health needs here. That was my point.


>I admittedly do not follow the goings on in Washington as much as I should - believing that I can best change the world by doing well at my work and treating the people around me with respect - but I believe I would find that any finagling of new legislation by rich corporations is a cause of trying to relieve themselves of some of the pressure already put on them by preexisting laws. Honestly, why is it that whenever someone has a problem in this country the automatic response is, "There oughtta be a law"?

Then I suggest you actually start paying closer attention to what's happening in the halls of congress before holding beliefs on important topics that were handed to you by mom and dad. Go take a look at the profits Pfizer, Roche, and other pharm companies are making and tell me that the federal government has them in handcuffs with unfair policies and preexisting laws.
I find it's always best to actually know a little about a current issue and what's happening in Washington before posting bold (and uninformed)statements about that topic.


>It really does have to be this way.

No..it doesn't have to be this way, Kira


 
addi Posted: Tue Apr 3 07:39:59 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Feel free to insert "Joe Libertarian" in the following..it works just as well.

A Day in THE LIFE OF JOE REPUBLICAN....

Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards.

With his first swallow of coffee, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to insure their safety and that they work as advertised.

He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry. In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air.

He walks to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It's noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime.

Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.

He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to. Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day.

Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

________________________________

Oversimplified? For sure....but it manages to make a valid point.
I don't want to see "no federal government", and I don't want to see "Big Brother federal government" either. The pendulum at either end is dangerous. That's why our founding fathers had the good sense to include a system of checks and balances in our Constitution.


 
addi Posted: Tue Apr 3 10:17:29 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Kira said:
>On the subject of global warming, did anyone else hear that the ice sheet in Greenland is actually growing? It's much too late to go digging for an article - go google it yourself.

This may be the article you're referring to:
http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/greenland_icesheet_growing.html

If you read the entire article you'll discover it also says this:
"Greenland's ice sheet seems to be thickening at a rate of 6.4 cm (2.6 inches) a year above altitudes of 1,500 metres (5000 feet). Below that altitude, the ice sheets are decreasing in thickness."

"Efforts to measure changes in the Greenland Ice Sheet using field observations, aircraft and satellites have improved scientific knowledge during the last decade, but there is still no consensus assessment of the ice sheet's overall mass balance. There is however evidence of melting and thinning in the coastal marginal areas in recent years, as well as indications that large Greenland outlet glaciers can surge, possibly in response to climate variations."


"As Greenland gets warmer, glaciers retreat"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9255431/



 
Kira Posted: Tue Apr 3 10:35:53 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  libra said:

>
>In a socialist country, it is not that the health care is 'free' but taxes are paid to cover health care costs for everyone.
>Instead of paying thousands of dollars a year for health insurance, taxes go towards covering health care. So no, they're not asking for something for free, there is an understanding of a sort of 'social contract' in play.

Just to respond to this, since I really liked your response to the free market issue,

I understand this, and this is why the word "free" was in quotations in the first post.

This means that everyone is paying the same amount for the same medicine, and the original point was that a health industry void of competition would suck big time.

Fact is that to the man in the socialist country, what is important is not what he pays, but that the man next to him pays whatever he cannot. That is where his something for nothing comes in.


 
Kira Posted: Tue Apr 3 10:52:36 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>ignorant dilluted Libertarian Libertarian isolated sheltered youngster woefully ignorant mom and dad Libertarian Libertarian

Honestly, Addison, I don't know how hif finds the patience for you.

If your arguments had merit, you would not have to attack the person with whom you are debating, instead of the argument itself.


 
addi Posted: Tue Apr 3 11:10:06 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Kira said:

>Honestly, Addison, I don't know how hif finds the patience for you.

Honestly, Kira, I don't know how *anyone* finds the patience to deal with me
: )

>If your arguments had merit

It's a damn shame not a single one of my points has any merit or value or facts to back them up. I really need work on that.

*I can truthfully say that I have no problem with differing viewpoints (it's one of the many reasons I keep posting here).
I do however have a problem with dumb viewpoints.

Oh dear!
there I go again : )


 
Kira Posted: Tue Apr 3 12:38:11 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>dumb
>
>Oh dear!
>there I go again : )

Indeed so. But as always, a smiley fixes everything.


 
beetlebum Posted: Tue Apr 3 12:45:09 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I could be entirely wrong, but I don't think the fundamental issue at hand is necessarily a republican versus libertarian versus democratic one framed by economic concerns (i don't want to pay for that poor man over there; i don't give a shit if no one pays for me); instead, I think the fundamental issue is what you believe the basic rights of every human being, and especially the poor, are.

I guess I just like to believe that human beings have the right to not fear dying because they can't get access to a set of pills that costs only cents to produce, especially in a country as wealthy as the US where even with research costs taken into consideration, firms could still afford to sell their drugs at a greatly reduced price.

I believe that parents should have the right to not worry about the preventable death of their child because their insurance wouldn't cover the costs of an expensive surgery that has a less than [insert arbitrary percentage here] chance of success.

I believe that HIV patients shouldn't have to worry about living an unnecessarily short life because they cannot afford their medications.

I believe that if a poor person has cancer, he or she should be able to receive the best treatment. Being poor doesn't make her any less worthy of living.

I believe that a capable and loving parent should be able to have a child without worrying that if the baby is born prematurely and requires considerable medical intervention, he/she/they won't be able to afford it and will wake up everyday worrying about whether or not they'll be able to stave off the bill collectors because making a choice between their child's health care and the mortgage shouldn't have to be a choice. There are some choices that do not increase a person's freedom; choosing between a child's health care or a roof is one of them.

I believe that there are a few sectors where profit margins should not matter as much, and thus require government intervention, such as public security services (the police), health care and education.

So far as health care goes, it's a well-known fact that productivity increases when employees are healthy and that economies with healthy workers grow faster. Economists who work in the field of international development are finding that it isn't the growth of the GDP or the industrial sector which brings about economic growth or lifts people out of poverty-- instead, it is those countries who have invested in education and health care that are doing better comparatively (and overall; of course, there are always exceptions on either side).

I find it disgusting that in the United States of America, which is founded upon the idea that every human being has the right to pursue life, liberty, and happiness, the poor and underprivileged are denied those rights on the ground that they are lazy or stupid or incompetent or undeserving of that which most middle-class and rich people take for granted.

The usefulness of wealth, I think, is in what it allows us to do- as individuals, and as a country-- and what freedoms that money helps us to achieve and guarantee.

"It is remarkable that the extent of deprivation for particular groups in very rich countries can be comparable to that in the so-called third world. For example, in the United States, African Americans as a group have no higher-- indeed have a *lower* chance of reaching advanced ages than do people born in the immensely poorer economies of China or the Indian state of Kerala (or in Sri Lanka, Jamaica, or even Costa Rica).

Even though the per capita income of African Americans in the United States is considerably lower than that of the white population, African Americans are very many times richer in income terms than the people of China or Kerala (even after correcting for the cost-of-living differences). In this context, the comparison of survival prospects of African Americans vis-a-vis those of the very much poorer Chinese, or Indians in Kerala, is of particular interest. [...]

In fact, it turns out that men in China and in Kerala decisively outlive African American men in terms of surviving to older age groups. Even African American women end up having a survival pattern for the higher ages similar to that of the much poorer Chinese, and decidedly lower survival rates than the even poorer Indians in Kerala. So it is not only the case that American blacks suffer from relative deprivation in terms of income per head vis-a-vis American white, they also are absolutely more deprived than the low-income Indians in Kerala and the Chinese in terms of living to ripe old ages.

*The causal influences on these contrasts (that is, between living standards judged by income per head and those judged by the ability to survive to higher ages) included social arrangements and community relations such as medical coverage, public health care, school education, law and order, prevalence of violence, and so on." Amartya Sen, winner of the Nobel Prize for Economics, "Development as Freedom"

That only reason I quoted this (there are so many other statistics like it around the world) is to point out that if, as a society, we think that disavowing ourselves of the basic needs of the poor and marginalized and their children is a good coping strategy and that our capitalist society really provides that they have every opportunity that middle-class honkies do, we are kidding ourselves.


A child who grows up safe, healthy and happy is generally more likely to be happy and successful and more capable of taking advantage of a mostly capitalist system, than a child who, from a very young age, learns that life is horribly difficult and that if she gets sick, her mom will be crying herself to sleep every night because she won't be able to make the rent and pay for the doctor on her minimum wage.

I honestly feel ashamed that in my own country, in my own community, the poor and marginalized have less of a chance of living to a ripe old age than in places where there are civil wars or a much lower GDP.

Finally, I think it naive to even say that the health care system in America is capitalist; I'd go so far as to say that a monopoly exists in terms of HMOs and insurance companies. Health care in American is in a terrible state because insurance companies are now so powerful that lobbyists hold more sway over representatives than the people do.


However, as is my dorky nature, I don't think things are hopeless. If you ever feel like taking action, www.results.org does great work. Even if hunger or poverty or microcredit isn't your big cause and/or you don't want to lobby your Congressperson in person, they do a lot with health care issues, too if that's what speaks to you, and you can just write letters. Right now this is one of the important ones:
http://www.results.org/website/article.asp?id=2653











 
beetlebum Posted: Tue Apr 3 12:45:38 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ...aaaaaand, that was the longest post ever. i'm sorry!


 
addi Posted: Tue Apr 3 12:48:33 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  beetlebum said:
>...aaaaaand, that was the longest post ever. i'm sorry!

no..it was a wonderful post. I only wish it had some merit

: )


 
beetlebum Posted: Tue Apr 3 12:50:03 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>beetlebum said:
>>...aaaaaand, that was the longest post ever. i'm sorry!
>
>no..it was a wonderful post. I only wish it had some merit
>


??


 
addi Posted: Tue Apr 3 13:01:56 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Kira said:

>Indeed so. But as always, a smiley fixes everything.


Guilty as charged. The overuse of smiley's where it's not really sincere is lame. When I don't mean it I'll try not to use them down the road...and in your case I don't mean to smile.

I could give a crap if your opinion of the best food, or greatest movie, etc..differs from mine. I mean...really, it just doesn't matter much, does it.
But on serious topics with serious real world consequences if you have a strong feeling about something, then by all means state your case. But back it up with some logic and facts and research and common sense. Otherwise be prepared for some blunt and harsh retorts coming your way.
I've lost all patience for stupidy in government matters. It's dangerous. I've had to put up with neo-cons and right-wingers running the show for the past 6 years and in the process running our country to hell in a hand basket.
I have no patience for your "let the poor help themselves" mentality.

Beetlebum just made some points and backed it up coherantly and with reason. You do the same and you won't hear peep from me.

So deal with it, Ms. Passive-Agressive.


 
addi Posted: Tue Apr 3 13:03:06 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  beetlebum said:

>??

I was joking, of course.

It was very well thought out, bbum.


 
beetlebum Posted: Tue Apr 3 13:52:16 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Kira said:

>
>Whatever anyone charges in this country, whatever their industry - it is the consumer's choice to pay. Drug companies and insurance companies, etc., are not holding health care hostage. They have a service to offer and the price at which they offer it is their incentive. If they are the only ones who can give this service, they earned that position. If I cannot pay it's my problem, and I will look elsewhere.
>
>
Almost done. I was just thinking about this statement as I was folding clothes.

I really disagree with you on this point. It isn't the consumer's choice whether or not to pay, in the sense that it's a consumer's choice to pay for brand name or generic ketchup, or to pay or not pay for ketchup.

I mean, if somebody is holding your health or life hostage, I guess you have the choice to die early or ride out the sickness and perhaps in the meantime lose your job, but I wouldn't really call that a reasonable choice. Especially considering that something as simple as strep throat can be deathly.

Also, I wouldn't say that insurance companies have earned their position in a capitalist market per se. They've had a lot of protection from the government.

Finally, where is this elsewhere of which you speak? In the US, if you can't get to a doctor, I'm not sure where else you would go.


 
Kira Posted: Tue Apr 3 14:44:21 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Beetlebum I'm just about to bolt out the door but I'm going to try to remember to get back to you next week. Sorry to ditch this topic! Argh stress.


 
addi Posted: Tue Apr 3 15:09:34 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Kira

I owe you an apology for the personal nature of some of my posts here. Sorry.

We really disagree on this particular topic, but you were right that I could make my case without the nastiness attached.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Apr 3 16:56:14 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Kira said:
>
>Honestly, Addison, I don't know how hif finds the patience for you.
>
Because we are mostly in agreement on all topics other than politics.
We don't argue politics very much anymore.
But for what it's worth (hat tip to Kuro), addi is kind of bitchy today.
:-)


 
beetlebum Posted: Tue Apr 3 17:11:37 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Kira said:
>Beetlebum I'm just about to bolt out the door but I'm going to try to remember to get back to you next week. Sorry to ditch this topic! Argh stress.


no worries! i just kind of vomited a load of stuff. hope the stresses eases up a bit and you get to relax some!


 
addi Posted: Tue Apr 3 17:37:38 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>But for what it's worth (hat tip to Kuro), addi is kind of bitchy today.
>:-)


I prefer the phrase "short on patience" over "bitchy".

: )

off to tennis..that will get it all out of my system


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Apr 3 19:47:37 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>ifihadahif said:
>
>>But for what it's worth (hat tip to Kuro), addi is kind of bitchy today.
>>:-)
>
>
>I prefer the phrase "short on patience" over "bitchy".
>
>: )
>
>off to tennis..that will get it all out of my system
>
Yep, nothing like 90 minutes or so pounding the fuzz off your balls.
:-)


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Tue Apr 3 21:36:54 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>addi said:
>>ifihadahif said:
>>
>>>But for what it's worth (hat tip to Kuro), addi is kind of bitchy today.
>>>:-)
>>
>>
>>I prefer the phrase "short on patience" over "bitchy".
>>
>>: )
>>
>>off to tennis..that will get it all out of my system
>>
>Yep, nothing like 90 minutes or so pounding the fuzz off your balls.
>:-)


you two make me laugh so much.

and hif... what IS your avatar... really... and what does that say about you?!?!??!

it says to me: i spawn creepy children.


 
kurohyou Posted: Tue Apr 3 22:39:17 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Its Tuesday Night...

I have not read this thread completly, but I suppose its too late to comment intelligently...

So I'll comment unintelligently...

My car broke today... I'm slightly ticked off by this...

Okay I'm out...

Not that it matters...




 
addi Posted: Wed Apr 4 07:05:43 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  kurohyou said:

>My car broke today...

I'll bet my bottom dollar that an unusually warm chin strapped penguin lobbyist working for Pfizer was behind this.
I hope your car has good health insurance.


 
Ahriman Posted: Wed Apr 18 02:52:11 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Addi, email me. I want to say something.

Avenger1562@hotmail.com


 
addi Posted: Wed Apr 18 06:47:00 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Ahriman said:
>Addi, email me. I want to say something.


Done...and just in case anyone else wants to say something my email is addison555@hotmail.com

: )


 
Mesh Posted: Tue Oct 28 04:45:00 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Anyone wants to email me, it is donttouechme@hotmail.com. Misspell is deliberate.


 
addi Posted: Tue Oct 28 06:19:23 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Wisenheimer said:
>Anyone wants to email me, it is donttouechme@hotmail.com.

Well now I want to touch you.

And what a depressing angry thread to bring back.
: )


 
Mesh Posted: Tue Oct 28 21:50:15 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Oh, whoa. I was thinking

"Yeah, whos the ass that....." and then I was like, oh shit, it was me! I posted in here first!


I was drunk.


 
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