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stop financial aid for africa
FN Posted: Thu Jun 7 14:09:55 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,363663,00.html

You wouldn't believe how many people have called me a racist for saying the exact same thing.


 
~Just Imagine~ Posted: Fri Jun 8 07:17:25 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I get the fact that africa would function fine without the bothering of european and american aid, but i think that that would only work if it hadn't this kind of debt?

Africa has such a great debt, that all that they produce, has to be shipped off in order to pay that debt, leaving the people in the country with nothing.
If european and american aid would stop, they wouldn't have food produced by themselves (caus it has to be used for paying the debt), and they wouldn't have food comming over from us as aid. Wich would make Africa suffer even more.

That's why i think reducing or releasing africa of it's debt, like some say, is the solution, and not the other kind of aid, Like sending food and clothing and money over.(except medical aid, because face it, they do need it there, no mather what this guy says, they need hospitals etc.)

Or at least, that's what I think


 
FN Posted: Fri Jun 8 12:08:49 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  How do you figure that they care about their debts.


 
~Just Imagine~ Posted: Fri Jun 8 13:57:32 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  how do you mean ?

Anyway, it was just what I was thinking, i didn't read it all, so I can be wrong, just thoughts :)


 
ifihadahif Posted: Fri Jun 8 18:22:06 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  The guy makes some good points, we send them mountains of clothes, now their textile industry is ruined, we send food and their farmers can't compete with the world food bank. All of our aid has rendered them helpless to a point. Their own corruption has not helped matters either.
With all the natural resources in Africa, they should be rich, but they aren't.


 
Dancer Posted: Sat Jun 9 06:33:43 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  read The White Man's Burden by william easterly.



 
FN Posted: Sat Jun 9 07:49:16 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Will do


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Sat Jun 9 23:40:51 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I'll admit, good points are made in the article. And I was about to write a post after Christophe had made his, but I wanted to see what other people would say first.

And now that's that happened, I just wanted to ask the following questions [most of which are probably due to ignorance on my part and are actually fairly worthless [i suck at Econ]];

I understand the effect of donated clothes and food, but even if we stop aid, how are people living in poverty supposed to suddenly have the money to pay for things like that? If we SLOWLY stop sending aid, would that be any better??

But even if we slowly stop sending aid, isn't a large part of the poverty due to the greed of the government? I mean... what's to say anything'll get better after slowing aid?

Also, if the AIDS epidemic is really being THAT slanted and the reports from various sources are wrong, then are we to assume that all the resources are wrong and that thousands upon thousands are NOT infected and that several children either have AIDS or are orphans?

Also, knowing people from Africa or who have lived in Africa or who have been to Africa, I've heard some pretty scary things myself... I mean, I would agree that the AIDS epidemic is played upon A LOT, but I also think that downplaying it is detrimental as well... shouldn't numbers speak for themselves?

And about the numbers-- are we including all the places where the numbers are shady/ sketch/ unsure??

Also, I don't know how aid programs like doctors-without-borders or sending in toiletries is so detrimental to the economy... I don't think that there are THAT many doctors that do it as to cause a problem to African doctors, and with all the resources that are supposed to be making Africa rich, i don't see how extra toothpaste and toothbrushes would cause their entire economy to collapse.

But to the credit of everyone reading this, I'll admit that I've used a lot of loaded words and my opinion on this topic is pretty evident currently.

I can see how certain types of aid is detrimental, but I also think that stopping aid as is wouldn't help Africa either. If anything, a slow recession maybe??


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Sun Jun 10 00:26:57 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Also, one more point--

for all the aid we're sending, it hasn't done as much as it's being played out to be, either...

i mean, the way the article reads, it's like EVERYONE in africa has clothes and shoes and health care and no one has a need for those things anymore because it keeps coming in droves.

but if that's the case, why are there so many people without?

and it's not like those people without could afford the clothes, shoes, and health care being offered... so THEN what should be done?


 
~Just Imagine~ Posted: Sun Jun 10 05:15:42 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>How do you figure that they care about their debts.

Well, all that they produce now, (wich is quite alot) is shipped off, in order to pay for the debt that Africa is in.
Nothing that they produce stays in africa, it's the only way the continent can pay of their debts

So... If we would cut of aid, they still can't keep what they produce, becaus they still need to pay of their debts...
So nothing of the richness they have, can stay in Africa
So at the moment they need our aid, if we'd take away their debt instead of giving aid, that would be a better solution. (?)
Caus then all they produce can stay in Africa...

Or at least this is what I think about it, I also agree with what innocence is saying


 
FN Posted: Sun Jun 10 05:33:05 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  innocenceNonus said:
>[i suck at Econ]

I don't.

>If we SLOWLY stop sending aid, would that be any better??

I'm not saying that it should be stopped from one second to the other, I'm saying that the way aid is being given today is a case where the supposed cure worse than the disease.

Aid shouldn't be given financially and such, it should be given in education so people can actually get some companies running.

The problem with africa though is it's culture. It's destined for poverty and it won't change any time soon.

>But even if we slowly stop sending aid, isn't a large part of the poverty due to the greed of the government? I mean... what's to say anything'll get better after slowing aid?

It's not only the government that's corrupt. It's in the african culture (I'm not saying "black guy's nature", to be clear) to be prone to corruption.

>shouldn't numbers speak for themselves?

They do. And what they're saying is that rape is rampant and that a lot of people (again, not saying all, but a lot) simply refuse to wear condoms, especially the men, even if they know perfectly well why they should.

Again, it's the culture.

>Also, I don't know how aid programs like doctors-without-borders or sending in toiletries is so detrimental to the economy...

The problem isn't so much in health care as it is in agricultural products.

The problem is that africa has no infrastructure to start with which means that they have to build an economy from the bottom up.

The problem here is that you can't compete with free food and that all the work and labour you have to put into growing your own food might not always be worth the trouble when you have an aid post close by.

>I can see how certain types of aid is detrimental, but I also think that stopping aid as is wouldn't help Africa either. If anything, a slow recession maybe??

I say the recession in africa has been going at the speed of light for quite a while ;o)


 
FN Posted: Sun Jun 10 05:40:01 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ~Just Imagine~ said:
>Well, all that they produce now, (wich is quite alot) is shipped off, in order to pay for the debt that Africa is in.
>Nothing that they produce stays in africa, it's the only way the continent can pay of their debts

So you really think once a week a truck comes by every farmer's patch of ground to collect the mango's they harvested?

Not everything africa produces is shipped off. What companies produce is shipped off because people in africa itself don't have enough buying capacity to buy the products anyway.

>So at the moment they need our aid, if we'd take away their debt instead of giving aid, that would be a better solution. (?)

No. If you take away their debt you invite them to make new ones.

Also, debts are to an extent not always bad for a country. But that's macro economics and a lot more to elaborate on than I have the time for right now. Look it up if you feel like it.

>Caus then all they produce can stay in Africa...

Economics isn't as simple as that.


 
~Just Imagine~ Posted: Sun Jun 10 06:49:23 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:

>Economics isn't as simple as that.

To bad :)


 



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