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It's hip to be square
FN Posted: Wed Jun 13 04:05:08 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  http://cbs5.com/topstories/local_story_159222541.html


 
FN Posted: Wed Jun 13 04:13:18 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  and one for the road:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/12/world/middleeast/12fatwa.html?em&ex=1181880000&en=ae69adde92a832e6&ei=5087%0A


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Wed Jun 13 04:39:28 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  uhhh...

are you defecating me out of your anus??

that is RIDICULOUS.


 
beetlebum Posted: Wed Jun 13 04:55:14 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  gah.


on a different note, have you all seen this? i can't really tell you why, but i found it interesting.

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1626519_1373664,00.html


 
beetlebum Posted: Wed Jun 13 05:00:46 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  wait, did i get that link here?

if i did, sorry for repeating.


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Wed Jun 13 05:03:10 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  because i know that Christophe really LOVES rap and hip-hop,

I'd like to provide the link for the This Is Why I'm Hot remix of

THIS IS WHY I ROCK.

am i a useless pleb for following the crowd? should i feel ashamed at my shameless relishing of pop culture?

if liking this song means yes, i don't really care.

http://www.prefixmag.com/media/mims/this-is-why-i-rock-mp3/3343


 
FN Posted: Wed Jun 13 05:08:54 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  innocenceNonus said:
>am i a useless pleb for following the crowd?

Yes.


 
DanSRose Posted: Wed Jun 13 06:00:00 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I see no differences in either of the articles Christophe posted. I see them as being from the same useless, theocratic, ineffectual government that has no idea how to put the actual needs of its citizens above pettiness, nepotism, and short-sightedness. No place or purpose for vision.


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Wed Jun 13 06:14:09 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  i'm okay with that. : )

and because I LOOOOOOOOVE hearing myself talk/ seeing my own written word online,

I'd like to expound on something.

I just wanted to say that I get severely peeved by people who are really uppity.

You know... those people who think they know SO much about art and literature and music and movies... the people who stare forever on end at a classic painting and say "it's trash... I never cared for his style"... the SAME people who tell me "UGH! I can't read Harry Potter books because I get so busy analyzing how poorly the sentences are written."

To those people: SHUT UP!

I don't care for your snobby attitudes and your deprecating air! Your pretension [and yes, I'm VERY aware of the rule that says when I use the word pretentious I'm being pretentious, THANK YOU] and your arrogance makes this world all the worse, and you can take your high-thinking doilies that you sit on and fart ALL over them! It'd let some of the hot air in your head out.

BUT the world FORBID all of you to do it at the same time, or we might be left with no ozone at all.

And the world, YES THE WORLD FULL OF THE STUPID PEOPLE YOU SO HORRIBLY LOOK DOWN UPON AND DETEST, the world forbid you EVER to stoop down to our level and read our books and watch our movies and listen to our music because then we'd have it TAINTED by the likes of YOU.

I'll be very happy with my Harry Potter, my Snakes on a Plane, my Justin Timberlake THANK YOU!

So you go read your Great Expectations and watch your uber-old, uber-foreign film with uber-layered meanings and listen to your heady, heavily-thought-out UBER-indie music.

YOU DO THAT.

GOOD RIDDANCE.

And take your stinky cheese with you!

PS-- I'd also like to take a stab at the subtle genius that is pop culture. Anything that has mass appeal is genius in my eyes for that very reason. Sometimes, something is genius for the opposite... But anything that has mass appeal is genius... [whether it's a good or bad genius, in my opinion, is up for debate, though].


 
beetlebum Posted: Wed Jun 13 06:35:07 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  innocenceNonus said:
>i'm okay with that. : )
>
>and because I LOOOOOOOOVE hearing myself talk/ seeing my own written word online,
>
>I'd like to expound on something.
>
>I just wanted to say that I get severely peeved by people who are really uppity.
>
>You know... those people who think they know SO much about art and literature and music and movies... the people who stare forever on end at a classic painting and say "it's trash... I never cared for his style"... the SAME people who tell me "UGH! I can't read Harry Potter books because I get so busy analyzing how poorly the sentences are written."
>
>To those people: SHUT UP!
>

big grin. well i do say!

it's unfortunate that people expound opinions upon things about which they don't know much, but i admit that i'm one of the people who doesn't read Harry Potter books because i do think that they are horribly written. and i don't think that because someone else thinks that, but because i've read three of the books (i gave it a good go) and i honestly don't care for the writing. does that make me pretentious? what is your basis for labeling someone as such? is it that they don't admire that which appeals to a large group of people thus rendering their opinion pretentious, or is it that they don't agree with you? or is it something else?

you sound just as pretentious, and not because you used the word (haha, when did 'pretentious' become a pretentious word?), but because it seems as though you've automatically assumed that someone who disagrees with the mass' positive valuation of some item is only expressing as much because it's cool to disagree. but i think there are a lot of people out there who disagree for other, better reasons.

eh, just my two pretentious cents. big grin.






 
innocenceNonus Posted: Wed Jun 13 06:49:30 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  beetlebum said:
>
>but i admit that i'm one of the people who doesn't read Harry Potter books because i do think that they are horribly written. and i don't think that because someone else thinks that, but because i've read three of the books (i gave it a good go) and i honestly don't care for the writing. does that make me pretentious?

lol. no. because the way you say it isn't as if you're smarter than everyone else or that you're SO much more educated that the writer and everyone who reads her work.

>what is your basis for labeling someone as such?

pretty much the above. it's not really liking or NOT liking something that makes someone pretentious. i'm just sick of all the "indie" kids who hate the mass culture because it's "base."

>you sound just as pretentious, and not because you used the word (haha, when did 'pretentious' become a pretentious word?)

at the same time when inane and certain uses of the word "base" became pretentious, lol. for me, pretension is more of its own sorta culture or thread than just a simple, denotative adj.

>but because it seems as though you've automatically assumed that someone who disagrees with the mass' positive valuation of some item is only expressing as much because it's cool to disagree.

sort of, but no. i don't hold anything against anyone who dislikes a part of popular culture. i myself dislike several parts of it [britney spears? paris hilton? that unredeemable song Umbrella by Rihanna? Nickleback?]. but i dislike it when people look down on popular culture and give it no credit. in my opinion, anything that has THAT much mass appeal must be doing SOMETHING right. and as much as i despise britney and paris and that awful song and that awful band, I gotta give 'em props-- they've succeeded where not everyone can... where few writers can. and it doesn't make them geniuses like Einstein or one of my math professors, but it does make them geniuses like Apple Marketing and the Volkswagon Beetle.

admittedly, I copy and pasted everything except the intro and the PS from my blog... i had written a previous rant/ rave/ burb, but i got lazy and didn't feel like finishing it... so i copy and pasted. : ) the other version touched more on what you were talking about, though.



and no worries- I am WELL aware how pretentious [there i go again... using that word] i am. that genius laughing at me in the mirror likes to remind me every day : ) [refer to other thread about the judge and his missing pants [!] ]


 
beetlebum Posted: Wed Jun 13 07:30:02 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  innocenceNonus said:
>beetlebum said:
>
>>but because it seems as though you've automatically assumed that someone who disagrees with the mass' positive valuation of some item is only expressing as much because it's cool to disagree.
>
>sort of, but no. i don't hold anything against anyone who dislikes a part of popular culture. i myself dislike several parts of it [britney spears? paris hilton? that unredeemable song Umbrella by Rihanna? Nickleback?]. but i dislike it when people look down on popular culture and give it no credit. in my opinion, anything that has THAT much mass appeal must be doing SOMETHING right.

eh, i don't know. i can't agree that any thing or idea that has mass appeal must be intrinsically good, or somehow have positive value. how is paris' exploitation really valuable, or 'right', or a 'social good'?

many people like britney spears not because they've listened to all of her contemporaries, or because they have explored many different genres, and ended up liking her music more than the others, but because she is who their friends like and they've only had limited exposure to music in general. of course there are people who love britney along with bob dylan, but those folks are few and far between. does that mean she is somehow inherently valuable or genius because she appeals to a large group of relatively uninformed people? nah. lots of ignorant, bad ideas and ignorant, bad people have appealed to large groups of relatively uninformed people (i.e. fascism, nazism, McCarthyism, racism and communism to name a few).

i'm not saying that britney spears isn't worthy of appreciation, or that people *shouldn't* like her; i'm just saying that i don't think she should be elevated to genius or be perceived as valuable simply because a large group of people enjoy her, particularly considering that pop culture is unique in that positive opinions are formed quickly and dissipate just as quickly.

do you not think that there's something to the idea that mass culture is somehow base? (i have no idea what "base" actually means in that context, but i'm assuming it just implies that pop culture is a reflection of a congregation of uninformed opinions which means that often people are basically sheep.) i'm not saying that indie kids have done it any better, as they comprise a subculture of their own, but i have to say that pop culture icons are not borne out of a reflective, pensive appreciation, but out of a quick and sweeping mass commercial appeal which often fades as quickly as it emerged... and there's a reason for that. i'm a libertarian at heart, but even i understand why many governments have republican as opposed to democratic roots. the majority is temperamental and is rarely to be trusted.

and those pop icons who have endured, well, how much do people actually know about them? again, i don't think many people could speak intelligently on marilyn monroe's or james dean's or elvis' body of work? or even andy warhol's for that matter...

i guess i just believe that *how* an opinion is formed, or a group of opinions is formed, is much more important than the number of opinions on a matter. the fact that a large group of people agree with something is rarely indicative of whether or not i should agree with something, and i would never give value to an opinion just because a load of people espoused it. more important to me is *why* they espouse it. and a lot of times, majorities get it wrong in all arenas... cultural, political, and economic.

ANYWAY. i am just waiting for my friends to arrive from the USofA and my room is mostly clean, so i'm just arguing for the sake of doing so. :)))



 
addi Posted: Wed Jun 13 07:43:31 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  lately i think I'm more tense than pretentious : )

Is it okay if I like some things that fit into the pretentious category, along with things that fit into pop culture?

I enjoy such things as Puccini Arias, debating whether Pollock was really a good artist, analyzing TS Eliots's "The Wasteland", and pondering the unspoken mystical beauty of a movie like "Girl With A Pearl Earring".

I also enjoy American Idol, "Cry Me a River" by Timberlake, and reading the innane headlines on tabloids about stars at the checkout line in grocery stores.

I don't have any problem with people that enjoy certain kinds of pop culture. I do have a problem with people that *only* enjoy pop culture and avoid exposing themselves to anything that promotes a higher and deeper level of brain activity... because it's too "highbrow".


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Wed Jun 13 07:52:32 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  beetlebum said:
>lots of ignorant, bad ideas and ignorant, bad people have appealed to large groups of relatively uninformed people (i.e. fascism, nazism, McCarthyism, racism and communism to name a few).
>

ah. my fault. i forgot i was talking about all things mass-appreciated, not just US pop culture.

here, i should probably refer to what i said before:

>I'd also like to take a stab at the subtle genius that is pop culture. Anything that has mass appeal is genius in my eyes for that very reason. Sometimes, something is genius for the opposite... But anything that has mass appeal is genius... [whether it's a good or bad genius, in my opinion, is up for debate, though].

>do you not think that there's something to the idea that mass culture is somehow base?

i think that the notion is formed because the majority is not "reflective" or "pensive." thus, people consider the things which gain mass appeal typically as inane or stupid-- it doesn't take any sort of elevated learning to appreciate or like them.

>i guess i just believe that *how* an opinion is formed, or a group of opinions is formed, is much more important than the number of opinions on a matter.

i would agree. but i still don't think that pop culture should be ruled out of people's minds as useless because they fail to see how it's worth anything.

>the fact that a large group of people agree with something is rarely indicative of whether or not i should agree with something, and i would never give value to an opinion just because a load of people espoused it.

again, i agree. i'm not talking about whether the number of people backing an opinion gives it credit or not or whether something being popular means i should like it or not. if anything, people should like what they like no matter the general public opinion on the matter [good OR bad]. instead, what i'm saying is that genius underlies things that have mass appeal, and that genius is underrated or un-thought of or declared inexistent.

>more important to me is *why* they espouse it. and a lot of times, majorities get it wrong in all arenas... cultural, political, and economic.

lol. i'm not saying what has mass appeal MUST be good. that's ALWAYS up for debate. what i'm saying is the way things that have mass appeal are executed (the way they garner that mass appeal, whether that be a trait or an action) is genius.

ex: Jessica Simpson is FAR from dumb. I've seen her on interviews and on commercials-- she doesn't act ANYTHING like she did on Newlyweds. [I dunno how much you keep up with American Pop culture but bear with me] BUT, I think she's brilliant. Why? Because she has managed to use something as simple as DITZYNESS to make herself a household American name. And she executes it flawlessly to the effect that THOUSANDS of people buy into the idea that she REALLY is THAT dumb.

>so i'm just arguing for the sake of doing so. :)))

hahaha. i'm studying for finals... i'm likewise arguing for the sake of arguing.


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Wed Jun 13 07:55:35 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:

>Is it okay if I like some things that fit into the pretentious category, along with things that fit into pop culture?

NO






jk.

>and reading the innane headlines on tabloids about stars at the checkout line in grocery stores.

I DO THAT TOO!!! we should hang out.

>I don't have any problem with people that enjoy certain kinds of pop culture. I do have a problem with people that *only* enjoy pop culture and avoid exposing themselves to anything that promotes a higher and deeper level of brain activity... because it's too "highbrow".

agreed. and i think the reverse too [that is, I have a problem with people that ONLY enjoy "highbrow" culture and avoid exposing themselves to anything "lower" for the sake of being uppity, high-class, or to otherwise not be a part of the masses].


 
ifihadahif Posted: Wed Jun 13 19:31:58 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I like the Beatles.


 
addi Posted: Wed Jun 13 21:46:24 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>I like the Beatles.

how pretentious!

: )




 
innocenceNonus Posted: Thu Jun 14 03:45:28 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>ifihadahif said:
>>I like the Beatles.
>
>how pretentious!
>
>: )
>
>

is that supposed to be irony, mockery, or sarcasm??

i've already taken my lit final...

latin and math to go!


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Jun 14 06:29:09 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  innocenceNonus said:
>addi said:
>>ifihadahif said:
>>>I like the Beatles.
>>
>>how pretentious!
>>
>>: )
>>
>>
>
>is that supposed to be irony, mockery, or sarcasm??
>
Which would you prefer ?

By the way, I agree, I think you're a genius too !
:-)


 
addi Posted: Thu Jun 14 07:49:16 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  innocenceNonus said:

>is that supposed to be irony, mockery, or sarcasm??

none of the above...just good natured fun : )

I would never direct anything mean spirited towards you, kt...we're home town buddies


 
Beep Posted: Thu Jun 14 09:11:16 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I'd say big brother is a case in point, it's total crap, but it is quite interesting.

Is my band pretentious for being indie and singing about grammar?
www.myspace.com/aparticular :P


 



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