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Exodus International
FN Posted: Mon Sep 3 07:11:01 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  http://exodus.to/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/


 
~Just Imagine~ Posted: Mon Sep 3 14:02:44 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  'Exodus is a nonprofit, interdenominational Christian organization promoting the message of Freedom from homosexuality through the power of Jesus Christ.'

I wonder if some christian homosexuals really believe they can be freed of the way they feel...

I know some of them feel bad and terribly confused of beeing homosexual because it's not accepted by their religion... They can't be a christian and a homosexual at the same time...

This site says they can try to "free" themselves like this if they want to get rid of the feelings they have... Or how to help a gay friend or family member returning to the "right path"

But I seriously doubt that praying to be straight will make them feel differently... I can't see how that can work for anyone...



As to my opinion, don't try to change people, gays are gay, it might not always be an easy life to live, but you can't change the way you feel...
Other people just need to accept them and not treat em like freaks that need to be "cured" like this site informs us to...
If there is somehow is a god, he'd have to accept everyone he created right?

Seriously, there's no logic in religion, that what annoys me the most!
That and all the wars for good ofcourse



And now I doubt if I actually made any point, but I'll post it none the less ;)





 
innocenceNonus Posted: Mon Sep 3 14:17:28 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Ya know...

I love my faith. But I can't say that I agree with some of the choices of my fellows... or even their opinions/ ideals on finer parts of the faith not dictated in the Bible.

And I'd like to take this chance to re-iterate the idea of judging a faith based on the actual faith and not the believers. On the teachings and ideals at the core and not perpetuated by believers.

I know that it's customary for people to judge a faith by its followers... I mean, look at the stigma attached to Islam simply because of radical Muslims. But personally, I think that's pretty messed up. We're all fairly faulty, and I won't even go into the number of times I haven't done my faith or race or family or friends justice.

But to announce it to the e-world, I'm planning to go into seminary. I have no idea what ministry I've been destined for, but I just want everyone to know that as I grow and learn more about my faith, I want to keep GT in on the action [whether y'all care or not, lol, is a different story].

And I'm a firm believer in personal choice. If you choose not to believe what I believe, that IS your decision. And while I may present my faith and ideas for your consideration [always attempting to do it respectfully, btw... if not, please let me know], I fully respect and honor your right to choose for yourself what you are going to put your faith in... whether that be yourself, Islam, Buddhism, Confucianism, etc.

That said, I'd also like to point out how contrary Christ's views on his time period were. And how He didn't even speak about homosexuality as much as knowing God personally. In fact, I can't be sure whether Christ spoke anything about homosexuality at all.

The main person who developed the rhetoric against homosexuality [I think] is Paul... but even when I tried finding it, I couldn't find the word [homosexuality] AT ALL in the Bible [NIV version... but when I learn the ancient languages and can translate the texts myself, I'll totally update about this]. And when I searched for the word "homosexual," I got the phrase "homosexual offenders"... Now, I'm not SURE and I wouldn't quote myself on this... but I think the main word is offenders...

The main idea I'm presenting is that God might not care so much about a person being gay as much as the way they're living out their life. I mean, even if we pose "homosexuality" as a sin in itself, it's not like God hates homosexuals. If a prostitute can be so loved by God and a thief sit at His right hand, how much more so a person who honestly loves another, even if of the same sex??

I mean... again, I'm not a church official... and I wouldn't quote myself on this, but it's an idea I've been thinking about and playing with. And the reason I'm posing the ideas I am is because I asked myself what I would do/ how I would behave/ how I would feel if one [or, heck, all] of my children were homosexual. And you know what? I honestly believe homosexuals have no more of a choice than I do over my own race. And I wouldn't feel or treat them any different than if they were straight, so long as they're maintaining morals I deem correct... which is how I would treat any of my children.

And the idea of me deeming morals correct or incorrect and setting them upon my children might seem ghastly. But is that not what parents do? Dunno bout you guys, but I dunno many parents who promote promiscuity or allow their children to rob and kill. Or want their kids to be prostitutes or porn stars.

Anyway, that's my shpiel at this point in my life. And it may change, and I might learn new things. And if that happens, okay. But that's where I'm at.

And I'm not angry at anyone or trying to start anything. But I'm responding to that site and the ideas it spurs forth. The end.


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Mon Sep 3 14:26:08 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ~Just Imagine~ said:
>If there is somehow is a god, he'd have to accept everyone he created right?

The way I understand it and think of it is that God loves and accepts everyone He created. Do they accept Him?? Not so much.

And it makes sense because if God loves us as Christ loves us, why would He only love us after we believe in Him? Christ didn't stay away from people until they started saying He was the Messiah. Nope. He went to THEM, and then let them make their own decisions.

And why does God let us make our own decision that can damn us? Because He respects free will. Because that's what you do when you love someone. I mean, that's not to say He won't try to change our minds... But at some point, you make your own choice no matter how many connections you've had with God or how many times you've been touched by something you can only describe as divine or holy.

In a way, there's no right or wrong choice. It's more about spending eternity with God or without Him. And [fortunately or unfortunately], God is love... kindness, goodness, faithfulness, etc etc etc.

On some level, it gets harder and harder to understand... and deeper and deeper than I can fathom. But superficially without getting into detail [because that would demand a novel unending], those are a few explanations and ideas.


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Mon Sep 3 14:31:42 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  PS-- one last thing.

I have a friend who's bisexual and a Christian. I believe it's fully and completely possible.

Because, even if we pose homosexuality as a "sin," that wouldn't stop a person from being a Christian.

I'm a liar. I've been prone to wrath. I've been sexually immoral. But does that stop me from being a Christian? No.

If we pose it not as a sin but as an attribute [like race], that still wouldn't stop a person... because they KNOW where their heart is at and they know how God is moving within their lives.

And sorry, but we as men tend to look at outward appearances... but God knows the heart. So you know what? At some point we [Christians] have to stop trying to hog the driver's seat and instead let [HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA] Jesus take the wheel. [I hate that song... sorry. I also hate that song that says "I DOOOOOOOO IT ANYWAY!!!!!] And trust that God knows more about a person He crafted more than we [who only know them for the short time we live] do.


 
FN Posted: Mon Sep 3 21:18:54 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Actually, and I could be wrong, but didn't god drop an atom bomb on Sodom because they used too much vaseline?


 
DanSRose Posted: Mon Sep 3 21:51:11 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  No, it was because they were going to rape an angel.


 
~Just Imagine~ Posted: Tue Sep 4 09:51:48 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  No it was because they did nasty nasty things ...

I can imagine addi had something to do with it, but I bet he'll just deny :)

Seems that Lot wasn't the only one who escaped the horrible wrath of god that day ;)


 
addi Posted: Tue Sep 4 11:26:25 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ~Just Imagine~ said:

>I can imagine addi had something to do with it, but I bet he'll just deny :)



(consults with his lawyer sitting next to him)

"I have no recollection of that event"



 
innocenceNonus Posted: Wed Sep 5 20:15:21 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  lol.

apparently, no one read the one of the most recently translated texts, found written in small print on the back of one of the dead sea scrolls...

The Book of Addi.

I believe it was yet another one of the books denied to be a part of the Holy Bible... go figure... probably because it contains all of his dirty deeds.


 
addi Posted: Wed Sep 5 21:28:49 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  innocenceNonus said:

>The Book of Addi.
>
>I believe it was yet another one of the books denied to be a part of the Holy Bible... go figure... probably because it contains all of his dirty deeds.

Hey now!

I don't know where along the way here I got stuck with this "dirty guy" reputation. I'm actually quite the wholesome Boy Scout type. A sheep among wolves really
:)


And regarding the sacred book of Addi..that punk Aurelius, bishop of Carthage, decided not to include it in the official canon of the New Testament. Apparantly the section describing the marriage at Cana, where Jesus turned the water into wine, didn't go over to well due to the inclusion of lap dancing and an orgy after the guests had the really good wine.
Go figure


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Sep 6 06:18:47 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>And regarding the sacred book of Addi..that punk Aurelius, bishop of Carthage, decided not to include it in the official canon of the New Testament. Apparantly the section describing the marriage at Cana, where Jesus turned the water into wine, didn't go over to well due to the inclusion of lap dancing and an orgy after the guests had the really good wine.
>
About that lap dancing . . .
They didn't have paper money, only coins, and where else were we supposed to put our tip for the dancers ?


 
FN Posted: Thu Sep 6 13:47:37 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  http://www.thatsnotnews.com/news/white_ute_inches_from_disaster


 
addi Posted: Thu Sep 6 18:33:40 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>http://www.thatsnotnews.com/news/white_ute_inches_from_disaster

Pretty interesting story. If it's real and not photoshoped like they claim it's actually amazing.
What I found most disturbing though was to read the comments from posters. It hit me that 90% of them must be pimple-faced angry young boys, thinking they're really cool by using all caps and cussing.
I've got nothing against occasionally dropping a wash your mouth out with soap word here at all, but in moderation and when needed. Those kind of sites are exactly why I like GT so much.

But perhaps I'm just turning into an old grumpy fart : )


 
kurohyou Posted: Thu Sep 6 19:12:34 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Haven't read all the posts yet but I did go to the website. This is actually something that has been bugging me lately, though I don't know why.

I went to the site and the first thing I thought was interesting is one of the first links entitled "Thinking about leaving Homosexuality?" Its like they present it as a club, or a bad marriage. What If I'm thinking about leaving Heterosexuality is there a place where I can sign up for that as well? The whole thing smacks of a some major misunderstanding based on the perception of some ancient writings.

The one thing I found interestin during my readings on this topic was something I found in Romans 1:24 - 27:

"So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies...This is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned agains the nagural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shamful things with other men and as a result of this sin they suffered within themselves the penalty the deserved."

Now what I thought was real interesting was Romans 2:1-4:

"You may think you can condemn such people, but you are jsut as bad and you have no excuse. When you say they are wicked and should be punished you are dondeming yourself, for you who judge other do these very things. We know that God, in his judgement will punish anyone who does such things. Since you judge others for doing these things, why do you think you can avoid God's judgement when you do the same things? Don't you see how wonderfully, kind, tollerant, and patient God is with you?"

Now its not just talking about homosexuality, it also mentions wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior and gossip. It also mentions backstabbers and haters of god. But I thought that it was interesting that it also included homosexuals and then in the next chapter is blasting those who would condemn those people.

I've lost my train of thought and will stop for now.

For what it's worth...


 
kurohyou Posted: Thu Sep 6 19:14:23 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>~Just Imagine~ said:
>
>>I can imagine addi had something to do with it, but I bet he'll just deny :)
>
>
>
>(consults with his lawyer sitting next to him)
>
>"I have no recollection of that event"
>
Plausible Deniabliity is better than pleading the fifth...

My favorite one so far. Find drugs in some guys pants, and the first thing he tells you is "those aren't my pants." I thought that was something for TV until someone said that to me...

Not that it matters...


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Thu Sep 6 20:46:04 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  kurohyou said:
>I've lost my train of thought and will stop for now.
>
>For what it's worth...

The way I take it is this:

Aside from listing bad things people do, Paul's also saying that if you say, "those people are bad and should be punished," you're saying that to yourself. And considering the Paul I've been reading about for the past couple of weeks, he did have that attitude toward himself. that everyone sucked, including himself.

I don't know if he's necessarily saying, "Don't judge," as much as "I'm in the same boat as everyone else."

Kinda like... he's recognizing certain things as sinful and he's admitting that he has those qualities within himself.

Another interesting passage of note:

at some point in some book, Paul is comparing his suffering with that of other's. And he's boasting about it.

And as he boasts, Paul [once killer of the Christians, now converting the Gentiles to Jesus] admits that he BURNS with sin.

And I think that's true. For some reason, people seem to think that after you accept Jesus into your life and take on the label of "Christian," you're automatically some sort of goody-goody prude who would NEVER think of anything mean or ugly or spiteful or lusty and only thinks about Jesus and how much everyone needs Jesus ALL THE TIME...

not true. I'm living proof that it's not true, and Paul [by his own testimony] is proof of that as well.


 
addi Posted: Thu Sep 6 21:59:36 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  innocenceNonus said:

>And as he boasts, Paul [once killer of the Christians, now converting the Gentiles to Jesus] admits that he BURNS with sin.


read an interesting book a few years ago by Bishop John Shelby Spong. He theorizes that Paul was a homosexual. Of course there's no proof that can be made for this, but he presented some very interesting and in-depth arguments supporting why he comes to that conclusion.
True or not it would explain the "great thorn in his side" constantly tempting him to burn with sinful desires.

Personally, if I had been around in Paul's days I think I would have lasted about 5 minutes around him before smacking him in the face. My tolerance for fanatics is very limited.


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Thu Sep 6 22:20:20 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  sweet! i mean, admittedly that's an odd answer for me to have... but it sounds like an interesting theory. i'm kinda interested in reading that book.

as for smacking paul, i'd like to remind you that the way paul acted was quite different from his letters. i mean, he even says in one of them how ppl are astonished by his demeanor being meek when his letters are so forceful.

go figure. in a way, i kinda feel the same way. i feel like... on GT, i come off kinda as a fanatic. but i know that in person, i'm not like that at all.

i think it's because the topics encourage that side of me to come out. but in real life, where i so rarely talk about such topics with so many other differing opinions... i'm not nearly so drawn out.


 
addi Posted: Fri Sep 7 06:21:49 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  innocenceNonus said:

>as for smacking paul, i'd like to remind you that the way paul acted was quite different from his letters. i mean, he even says in one of them how ppl are astonished by his demeanor being meek when his letters are so forceful.

It's easy to act tough on the net. In real life Paul probably would have been able to whip my butt.

And I never meant to imply you were fanatical, innocence. I know in person you'd be a cuddley pussy cat : )


 
innocenceNonus Posted: Sun Sep 9 20:00:21 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  lol. i know you didn't mean i was a fanatic. i still feel like one time to time, though. : P


 



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