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The Cos' tells the truth
ifihadahif Posted: Fri May 2 14:01:31 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  http://patriotpost.us/news/truth_about_black_america_by_bill_cosby.asp


 
addi Posted: Fri May 2 15:26:43 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  thought perhaps it was something new..but it's his old speech.

Still he had some very valid points to make. I do know that if Obama had made this speech, or some prominant white person the black community would have raised bloody hell. In fact I seem to remember Cos' getting a lot of flack over this speech from some members of his race, calling him an Oreo (black skin, white inside).
The only bad thing about it is that some ignorant whites used this as a validation for their rascism. I think the truth lies somewhere in between...the blacks haven't been given a level playing field historically speaking in America, and it's still not even today. But the major gains in legislation and in equal opportunies hard fought and won over the past 50 years have been squandered and wasted by many blacks as well. The old excuse "Whitey is keeping us down" doesn't fly with me anymore. At some point they have to look themselves in the mirror and realize they are responsible for their success or failure. If your white and "beautiful" the trip to success may be easier and shorter, but the road is now open for black America to take that trip.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Fri May 2 17:02:47 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  The so called self appointed "leaders" of the black community in America, the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons of the world are doing nothing to help the black community, they are only helping themselves.
The black have made some good inroads into American society, but still they have also shot themselves in their own foot so to speak.
70 percent born out of wedlock, and 90 percent drop out rate. Those two statistics alone predict failure in life.
Perhaps they haven't been given a level playing field, but they certainly have the same opportunites as Asians in this country.
Does anyone see a difference in the success rates of these two minorities ?


 
FN Posted: Fri May 2 19:12:03 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  The problem is that (modern) black culture, and I use the term lightly in this case, is putrid crap.

The role models are overcompensating would-be criminals that neanderthals probably would have described as low-brow.


I honestly feel bad for the black people who aren't shitheads but just regular people who have to drag that drab along with them.


 
kurohyou Posted: Sat May 3 01:21:53 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>The so called self appointed "leaders" of the black community in America, the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons of the world are doing nothing to help the black community, they are only helping themselves.
>The black have made some good inroads into American society, but still they have also shot themselves in their own foot so to speak.
>70 percent born out of wedlock, and 90 percent drop out rate. Those two statistics alone predict failure in life.
>Perhaps they haven't been given a level playing field, but they certainly have the same opportunites as Asians in this country.
>Does anyone see a difference in the success rates of these two minorities ?

Didn't look at the link... just thought I'd comment.

I am a minority, I was born out of wedlock, raised by a single mother in a low income family. Spent a number of years on welfare, I still remember standing in the lines with my mom to get food stamps. I lacked any real male role model in my life, I guess you could say the odds were stacked against me too.

I guess I look at anyone's life, no matter what your cultural background, or color of your skin, as being their own responsibility to control, direct and maintain.

I watched Larry King's Interview with Sidney Poitier tonight and was simply amazed at what a man Poitier is, and was again reminded as to why he is in the top 5 people I would love to meet. Here's a man who faced every uphill battle you could imagine. But he was determined. And he has not only been a success, but been an inspiration to all.

This delimma is not attached to a race, or a culture. I see it in white people as much as I see it in black people. Its a general distain for taking responsibility for their own lives and for taking responsibility for their own actions and the consequences of those actions. Avoidance of responsibilty is universal, not cultural or racial.

By all accounts I should fall into some of those statistics. Yet I did not. Why? I don't know. I like to think that I had a good upbringing in spite of the challenges. And I'd like to think it was some general determination.

For what it's worth...


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sat May 3 06:55:17 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  kurohyou said:
>ifihadahif said:
>>The so called self appointed "leaders" of the black community in America, the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons of the world are doing nothing to help the black community, they are only helping themselves.
>>The black have made some good inroads into American society, but still they have also shot themselves in their own foot so to speak.
>>70 percent born out of wedlock, and 90 percent drop out rate. Those two statistics alone predict failure in life.
>>Perhaps they haven't been given a level playing field, but they certainly have the same opportunites as Asians in this country.
>>Does anyone see a difference in the success rates of these two minorities ?
>
>Didn't look at the link... just thought I'd comment.
>
>I am a minority, I was born out of wedlock, raised by a single mother in a low income family. Spent a number of years on welfare, I still remember standing in the lines with my mom to get food stamps. I lacked any real male role model in my life, I guess you could say the odds were stacked against me too.
>
>I guess I look at anyone's life, no matter what your cultural background, or color of your skin, as being their own responsibility to control, direct and maintain.
>
>I watched Larry King's Interview with Sidney Poitier tonight and was simply amazed at what a man Poitier is, and was again reminded as to why he is in the top 5 people I would love to meet. Here's a man who faced every uphill battle you could imagine. But he was determined. And he has not only been a success, but been an inspiration to all.
>
>This delimma is not attached to a race, or a culture. I see it in white people as much as I see it in black people. Its a general distain for taking responsibility for their own lives and for taking responsibility for their own actions and the consequences of those actions. Avoidance of responsibilty is universal, not cultural or racial.
>
Statistically it's more prevalent in the black culture in America.

>By all accounts I should fall into some of those statistics. Yet I did not. Why? I don't know. I like to think that I had a good upbringing in spite of the challenges. And I'd like to think it was some general determination.
>
Statistically speaking, two of the most important indicators for success in America are two parent homes and education. These indicators are sorely lacking in our black community as they seem to embrace neither.
Too many blacks in our community have no appreciation for education and there is no stigma attached to the father who fails to support his children.



 
addi Posted: Sat May 3 08:25:00 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I'm not going to get into an argument over statistics here, or also don't want to absolve the american black community of personal responsibility for the poor state of things right now. However I feel the need to point out that there isn't any genetic predisposition to any race being superior to another. We're all human and can exhibit the same negative behaviors we accuse blacks of. It manifests itself differently (according to cultural traits, norms and values), but I've seen too many examples of whites doing the same thing we accuse the blacks of doing to come to any other conclusion of racial superiority of one group over another.

If anyone thinks that if the historical roles were reversed and whites were in the same position that blacks are here, but that skin color would prevent them from demonstrating their own unique negative cultural traits, then they are lacking a good understanding of the impact of social institutions, groups, history and environment on human behavior.
An entire group of people doesn't go "bad" in an isolated vaccumn. The cultural interactions and social attitudes of those around them play an intricate role in molding and shaping the outward expressions of any group in history.

So while I will defend Mr. Cosby's statements, and agree that the time has come for some serious self-introspection and change within the black community, I also have to say that pointing fingers and saying, "It's a black thing" is incorrect and a gross oversimplification of the problem, that smacks of an unjustified and dangerous racial superiority mindset.

Social problems (in any country) aren't created soley by the subgroup in question, it takes the involvement and interaction of the primary social group around them to assist in causing social problems. American whites (the dominant social group here) have to take some responsibility in playing a significant part in why the black culture is what it is today.
American whites need to understand when they're pointing fingers and thinking "Stupid Niggas" that caucasions would not be immune to exhibiting the same types of negative and self-detructive traits as a group if the roles were reversed.

*speech over : )


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sat May 3 10:26:49 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>I'm not going to get into an argument over statistics here, or also don't want to absolve the american black community of personal responsibility for the poor state of things right now. However I feel the need to point out that there isn't any genetic predisposition to any race being superior to another. We're all human and can exhibit the same negative behaviors we accuse blacks of. It manifests itself differently (according to cultural traits, norms and values), but I've seen too many examples of whites doing the same thing we accuse the blacks of doing to come to any other conclusion of racial superiority of one group over another.
>
>If anyone thinks that if the historical roles were reversed and whites were in the same position that blacks are here, but that skin color would prevent them from demonstrating their own unique negative cultural traits, then they are lacking a good understanding of the impact of social institutions, groups, history and environment on human behavior.
>An entire group of people doesn't go "bad" in an isolated vaccumn. The cultural interactions and social attitudes of those around them play an intricate role in molding and shaping the outward expressions of any group in history.
>
>So while I will defend Mr. Cosby's statements, and agree that the time has come for some serious self-introspection and change within the black community, I also have to say that pointing fingers and saying, "It's a black thing" is incorrect and a gross oversimplification of the problem, that smacks of an unjustified and dangerous racial superiority mindset.
>
>Social problems (in any country) aren't created soley by the subgroup in question, it takes the involvement and interaction of the primary social group around them to assist in causing social problems. American whites (the dominant social group here) have to take some responsibility in playing a significant part in why the black culture is what it is today.
>American whites need to understand when they're pointing fingers and thinking "Stupid Niggas" that caucasions would not be immune to exhibiting the same types of negative and self-detructive traits as a group if the roles were reversed.
>
>*speech over : )
>
Thank for that wonderful rantc :-)

No one said it's a genetic thing and no one doubts it would be the same if the roles were reversed.
It's about the current culture in the black community and their "leaders" that are perpetuating their "victimhood".

By the way, I don't think I'm racially superior to anyone.


 
addi Posted: Sat May 3 10:43:10 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>By the way, I don't think I'm racially superior to anyone.

I think you are : )

Wasn't accusing you of that and I don't think we really disagree on this, hiffer. This was just my attempt to balance out perspectives on the issue, and really not directed at anyone in particular here. Cool?


 
jennemmer Posted: Sat May 3 12:15:17 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  As an outsider to the US who is living here the 'race' issue is an interesting one. The sense of 'us' and 'them' here is really strong, even among people who are not actively racist. I have found myself falling into is a bit simply because living here it always keeps getting subtly brought up and pointed out.

It's hard to find explicit examples, but one happened recently when a new family moved into my apartment building. I was talking with a neighbor and the conversation went: "So I met our new neighbors the other day. They seem really nice, they've got a really sweet little boy who is about 7 and they are black". It wasn't bad, or negative, but I still don't see why I needed that last piece of information.

Being in a field that is still hugely male dominated (70/30 split at the professor/senior scientist level) I am constantly made aware of a lot of studies done on innate ability vs stereotypes and how a persons awareness of stereotypes affect performance. Large groups of people were given a math test. In some cases they were told by the person giving the test that "this is a really hard math test and we are trying to test general ability" and in other cases were told "this test was designed to the best of our ability to be gender/race neutral". The differences in scores have been seen in numbers of trials, with different tests, and over 10 years. Some of it is talked about on wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat ) but the results I've seen aren't listed there.

There have also been studies showing that college students with at least one college graduate parent had a higher graduation rate than students whose parents never went to college. (http://eric.ed.gov:80/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=ED309688&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=ED309688 )

All these little things stack up. They are no excuse but it means that people have be willing to work just that little bit harder and a lot of people, race aside, are lazy. I've known white friends who went to college out of a sense of laziness. They didn't know what to take, they didn't want to think about what they wanted to do in life, they didn't want to find a job so they went to college because it was the thing to do and their parents would pay for it. It makes the white culture look more 'accomplished', but it's still just people following the historical expectations because its easiest.


 
FN Posted: Sat May 3 13:17:19 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  jennemmer said:
>As an outsider to the US who is living here the 'race' issue is an interesting one. The sense of 'us' and 'them' here is really strong, even among people who are not actively racist.

That's not only in the US, it's everywhere, US, EU, Australia, China, Russia, whatever


 
jennemmer Posted: Sat May 3 19:01:54 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>jennemmer said:
>>As an outsider to the US who is living here the 'race' issue is an interesting one. The sense of 'us' and 'them' here is really strong, even among people who are not actively racist.
>
>That's not only in the US, it's everywhere, US, EU, Australia, China, Russia, whatever

I do realize that, and it's not like it doesn't exist at home... its just _very_ present here. For all that the US is a melting pot every culture seems to self-segregate to a degree I haven't seen in the, admittedly few, other places I've lived.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sat May 3 19:40:06 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>ifihadahif said:
>
>>By the way, I don't think I'm racially superior to anyone.
>
>I think you are : )
>
>Wasn't accusing you of that and I don't think we really disagree on this, hiffer. This was just my attempt to balance out perspectives on the issue, and really not directed at anyone in particular here. Cool?
>
I love you man.
:-)


 
addi Posted: Sun May 4 08:43:33 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>I love you man.
>:-)

are we having a moment here?
: )

Interesting comments, Jenn. Having spent a good portion of my life in the north and the last 13 years in the south I've noticed some interesting things about racial relationships and attitudes between the two regions.
In the north it was, generally speaking, much more taboo to make racial comments, and the south was the butt of a lot of stereotyping and jokes. But in everyday life up there the blacks and whites stayed separate and to themselves whenever possible...there wasn't a lot of social mixing. My sense was that there was a lot of unspoken distrust between them, even though it wasn't verbalized as much.
In the south there is racism for sure, and I've found several people very willing to openly express their dislike of blacks, even though I didn't really know them well. They say things very negatively about blacks in a very manner of fact way..like they're talking about the weather.
The strange thing though is that blacks and whites have been working, eating, playing and doing everyday life things that bring them together for so long that there is a lot of social mixing between the two groups, and the end result of that is that interracial marriages and close friendships are not that uncommon. Working with blacks in the office you find after a while that you don't think of them as "black", but as just another co-worker. You become blind to their skin color, and like or dislike them based on their personality.

In a nutshell what I'm trying to say is that I found an outward intolerance to racial bigotry to be more prevelant up north, but in everyday living found the two groups to be much more segregated. In the south I've found plenty of examples of people being openly bigoted about anyone with dark skin, but in everyday life seen the two groups working and existing in harmony much more than I did up north.


 
FN Posted: Sun May 4 12:19:54 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  One thing that's for sure though, black people have a pungent odour that's quite horrifying.

I don't know whether it's natural or because of bad hygene.


 
mat_j Posted: Thu May 8 02:42:43 2008 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>One thing that's for sure though, black people have a pungent odour that's quite horrifying.
>
>I don't know whether it's natural or because of bad hygene.


A lot of people say that about Belgian people in the UK, y'know that you don't buy any soap, perhaps the Black people in Beligum heard this and are trying to fit in? That's what you want right?

But seriously

The Belgians are an industrious people, with good conservative family values and some of the finest chocolates and pastries in the world.

The more you know



 



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