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Ahriman Posted: Fri Feb 18 11:23:41 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2010/02/26/uk-health-care-horror-1200-die-needlessly-in-filthy-blood-splattered-hospital/

reaaaallly?


 
Cherry_Moon Posted: Sat Feb 19 05:45:08 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I don't know much about these stories but I do want to investigate further on non partisan sites.

Ifhi is going to tear into this one
-__-


 
addi Posted: Sat Feb 19 09:32:49 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  a quick check on the right side of this site's page told me everything I needed to know about the unbiased objectivity of this article.
why even link to shit like this is my question?

*and while you're visiting you might as well click on the link to end all funding to NPR...because culture, learning and national/world news stories that go into much more depth of coverage than "USA Today" articles is precisely what's wrong with this country.


 
Ahriman Posted: Sat Feb 19 10:13:45 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Well a story being biased and not picked up by Time Warner doesn't undo the possibility of the story. I was hoping for someone a little closer to the area to shed some light on it. I've had so many bad experiences with hospitals now that I don't find this all that unbelievable.


 
Ahriman Posted: Sat Feb 19 10:20:21 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stafford_Hospital_scandal

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/the-worst-hospital-scandal-for-10-years-1909907.html


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sat Feb 19 10:35:32 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Of course it's biased, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not true.
This is not an opinion piece so you can pretty easily check it's accuracy.
As for cutting funding to NPR, I'm all for it. The govt has no business funding news and information outlets. Anyone with half a brain can deduce the bias coming from NPR and it's not something I want my tax dollars supporting.


 
mat_j Posted: Mon Feb 21 07:30:20 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Yeah, yeah, i know this one, have universal health care and next thing you know you'll be killing your neighbour to become bloc commissar.

What's so fantastic about your god damned system, anyway, below are a series of articles on infant mortality in the land of the free, where the children that the right are so damned determined to get born plop out dead on the operating table because of poor access to medical care especially the poor. Yes the poor remember them, they make up a good 3/4s of your society and they're mad as hell and are not going to take it anymore

Also, remember that a person is a person no matter how small? All well and good when it's a politically visible vote winning abortion to be but when it's born black, hispanic or even white and poor, well it doesn't matter if it's delivered stillborn, ah well we morally crusaded well enough to keep it stuffed in the womb but now it's out and dead in the first 24 hours it's the parents problem now.

And don't get me started on the gggrrreeeattt American Health Insurance industry either!

In gold we trust motherfuckers!!!

http://articles.cnn.com/2006-05-08/health/mothers.index_1_mortality-rate-death-rate-world-s-mothers/3?_s=PM:HEALTH

http://www.wisegeek.com/why-is-the-infant-mortality-rate-high-in-the-us.htm

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/GlobalHealth/story?id=1266515


http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/oct2008/mort-o18.shtml


 
addi Posted: Mon Feb 21 07:55:07 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  But how could this be?!

We are the greatest civilization evah in the history of the world.
God has blessed us, not the rest of you second class citizens (we sing God bless America, not god bless the world)

no...I'm sure your information is all wrong, mat. we have the best education system, the best health care, the best democracy, the best everything here, compared to any other developed country.

Just ask Palin..she'll set you straight.


 
Ahriman Posted: Mon Feb 21 12:08:49 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Is something in the water? I just wanted to know if this was a true story about a single hospital.

NPR funding...it was an ad on the page. I don't start discussing the ethics of viagara ads after I read an article on gas prices.

What's so fantastic about our health care system/insurance? Nothing. Haven't been able to get any assistance in years. I eat right and exercise instead of complaining.

Sarah Palin?

...

People had to drink out of flower vases in the hospital because they weren't being given water. Laying around in their own feces. Administering wrong medications. Death after death after death for no reason but meeting the bottom line. Where are you guys in this conversation? I don't care about politics. Politics didn't misdiagnose my allergic reaction and treat me like a junkie. Leavin me alone on a gurney with empty IVs and needles stuck in me for 8 hours. I'm talkin' about human negligence here. The basic kind that leads to real mistakes. Real mistakes that have taken so many of my loved ones. What the fuck...


 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Feb 21 13:10:42 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Ahriman said:
>Is something in the water? I just wanted to know if this was a true story about a single hospital.
>
>NPR funding...it was an ad on the page. I don't start discussing the ethics of viagara ads after I read an article on gas prices.
>
>What's so fantastic about our health care system/insurance? Nothing. Haven't been able to get any assistance in years. I eat right and exercise instead of complaining.
>
>Sarah Palin?
>
>...
>
>People had to drink out of flower vases in the hospital because they weren't being given water. Laying around in their own feces. Administering wrong medications. Death after death after death for no reason but meeting the bottom line. Where are you guys in this conversation? I don't care about politics. Politics didn't misdiagnose my allergic reaction and treat me like a junkie. Leavin me alone on a gurney with empty IVs and needles stuck in me for 8 hours. I'm talkin' about human negligence here. The basic kind that leads to real mistakes. Real mistakes that have taken so many of my loved ones. What the fuck...

Apparently the article was accurate.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/staffordshire/7948293.stm

As for the politics involved this is what you can expect when you let govt beaurocrats run the healthcare system.

You will be hard pressed not to involve a political discussion when the topic healthcare for obvious reasons.
Our govt is in a heated battle with it's
own people as it is trying very hard to shove Obamacare down our throats. Most of us don't want it, yet the govt persists. What a bunch of asses !



 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Feb 21 13:19:04 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  mat_j said:
>Yeah, yeah, i know this one, have universal health care and next thing you know you'll be killing your neighbour to become bloc commissar.
>
>What's so fantastic about your god damned system, anyway, below are a series of articles on infant mortality in the land of the free, where the children that the right are so damned determined to get born plop out dead on the operating table because of poor access to medical care especially the poor. Yes the poor remember them, they make up a good 3/4s of your society and they're mad as hell and are not going to take it anymore
>
>Also, remember that a person is a person no matter how small? All well and good when it's a politically visible vote winning abortion to be but when it's born black, hispanic or even white and poor, well it doesn't matter if it's delivered stillborn, ah well we morally crusaded well enough to keep it stuffed in the womb but now it's out and dead in the first 24 hours it's the parents problem now.
>
>And don't get me started on the gggrrreeeattt American Health Insurance industry either!
>
>In gold we trust motherfuckers!!!
>
>http://articles.cnn.com/2006-05-08/health/mothers.index_1_mortality-rate-death-rate-world-s-mothers/3?_s=PM:HEALTH
>
>http://www.wisegeek.com/why-is-the-infant-mortality-rate-high-in-the-us.htm
>
>http://abcnews.go.com/Health/GlobalHealth/story?id=1266515
>
>
>http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/oct2008/mort-o18.shtml
>
Your ABC article clearly states that our infant mortality rate has remained fairly constant as poorer nations have improved their healthcare systems.
As for the mortality rate for black babies here, the fact is that there is a 70 percent chance there will be no father present in that childs life if it lives and also that the mother will likely be functionally illiterate. These are cultural problems not healthcare problems. If you happen to be pregnant there are any number of ways to get free
healthcare here.


 
addi Posted: Mon Feb 21 17:28:45 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  don't be naive, Arhi..it's not you.

you put up a link here to a startling article like that and expect it not to get political?
Hi, I'm addi...welcome to the GT forum ;)

and I brought up the ban NPR ad because the entire page was right wing propaganda. Had they put up a left wing ad/cause I wouldn't have even bothered...but 2 minutes there looking at the headlines of other stories and it screams right wing nut cases.

Of course it totally sucks you had to experience that. It may have helped steer the direction of the conversation if you had related that nightmare experience in your original post.

If you going looking for horror stories about someone's hospital experience you'll find them..plenty of them..in every country. Some just have more than other places.

And if you think we need to continue the status quo here giving only the most complete coverage with the best care to those with the $$$ (or in congress), as the costs continue to skyrocket, then you're as delusional as hif...and Sarah Palin.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Mon Feb 21 19:25:39 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>don't be naive, Arhi..it's not you.
>
>you put up a link here to a startling article like that and expect it not to get political?
>Hi, I'm addi...welcome to the GT forum ;)
>
>and I brought up the ban NPR ad because the entire page was right wing propaganda. Had they put up a left wing ad/cause I wouldn't have even bothered...but 2 minutes there looking at the headlines of other stories and it screams right wing nut cases.
>
>Of course it totally sucks you had to experience that. It may have helped steer the direction of the conversation if you had related that nightmare experience in your original post.
>
>If you going looking for horror stories about someone's hospital experience you'll find them..plenty of them..in every country. Some just have more than other places.
>
>And if you think we need to continue the status quo here giving only the most complete coverage with the best care to those with the $$$ (or in congress), as the costs continue to skyrocket, then you're as delusional as hif...and Sarah Palin.
>
Right wing propoganda eh ?
I noticed you had no rebuttal for the article in question.
As for the "horror stories" you seem to think are commonplace, I don't think I've ever heard anything close to this article happening here,
Also just because we conservatives are opposed to Obamacare doesn't mean we wish to maintain status quo as you so eloquently suggested.


 
Ahriman Posted: Mon Feb 21 22:50:50 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>don't be naive, Arhi..it's not you.
>
>you put up a link here to a startling article like that and expect it not to get political?
>Hi, I'm addi...welcome to the GT forum ;)



lame


 
mat_j Posted: Tue Feb 22 08:20:15 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>Your ABC article clearly states that our infant mortality rate has remained fairly constant as poorer nations have improved their healthcare systems.
>As for the mortality rate for black babies here, the fact is that there is a 70 percent chance there will be no father present in that childs life if it lives and also that the mother will likely be functionally illiterate. These are cultural problems not healthcare problems. If you happen to be pregnant there are any number of ways to get free
>healthcare here.

I'm aware what the ABC article claims, i put a mix in there to help support my figures. It doesn't make a shred of difference to the facts though, you still blow at looking after babies in the global scale of things, what's up with that? If it's not your healthcare system it's your poverty levels (Which are just as shocking), why the hell can't you just give the majority of a the country a break!

I'm glad you mentioned the cultural problems present in the African American communities too, these are people who will be either without access to medical insurance or struggling to pay for it, a relief on that burden and the knowledge that a trip to the doctors every now and again won't cost a fortune and lets face it for a family on the poverty line something like $20-40 dollars is a fortune will do the world of good to improving their basic conditions... but i guess that doesn't interest you in the slightest as a concept.


As for the 'horror stories'. I was born in a NHS hospital as was pretty much EVERYONE i know, i have been treated and operated on in NHS hospitals and I've found them to be clean and efficient. My mother works at an NHS hospital as a nurse, she works hard and is good at her job and the hospital she works at saves lives and makes hundreds of people comfortable and welcome a week. My brother is a nurse and a senior health and safety official in the country, my cousin is a manager for the local health authority, I know how hard they works and how well they do in making the services provided are on target and efficient.

When the chips are down it's always there for you, there are no insurance premiums, no (sickeningly) astronomical costs for operations and treatment.




 
Puck Posted: Tue Feb 22 08:43:34 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  mat_j said:
>you still blow at looking after babies, what's up with that?

Look, I'm sorry. They just start crying and I don't know what they want. I panic, ok? I just point them back at their folks and get the hell out of there.


 
mat_j Posted: Tue Feb 22 08:45:08 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Puck said:
>mat_j said:
>>you still blow at looking after babies, what's up with that?
>
>Look, I'm sorry. They just start crying and I don't know what they want. I panic, ok? I just point them back at their folks and get the hell out of there.

Just hide them in the blender it'll all work out jsut fi... Ahhh man! There's baby in my smooothiiieeeee!!


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Feb 22 09:11:02 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  mat_j said:
>ifihadahif said:
>
>>Your ABC article clearly states that our infant mortality rate has remained fairly constant as poorer nations have improved their healthcare systems.
>>As for the mortality rate for black babies here, the fact is that there is a 70 percent chance there will be no father present in that childs life if it lives and also that the mother will likely be functionally illiterate. These are cultural problems not healthcare problems. If you happen to be pregnant there are any number of ways to get free
>>healthcare here.
>
>I'm aware what the ABC article claims, i put a mix in there to help support my figures. It doesn't make a shred of difference to the facts though, you still blow at looking after babies in the global scale of things, what's up with that? If it's not your healthcare system it's your poverty levels (Which are just as shocking), why the hell can't you just give the majority of a the country a break!
>
>I'm glad you mentioned the cultural problems present in the African American communities too, these are people who will be either without access to medical insurance or struggling to pay for it, a relief on that burden and the knowledge that a trip to the doctors every now and again won't cost a fortune and lets face it for a family on the poverty line something like $20-40 dollars is a fortune will do the world of good to improving their basic conditions... but i guess that doesn't interest you in the slightest as a concept.
>
>
>As for the 'horror stories'. I was born in a NHS hospital as was pretty much EVERYONE i know, i have been treated and operated on in NHS hospitals and I've found them to be clean and efficient. My mother works at an NHS hospital as a nurse, she works hard and is good at her job and the hospital she works at saves lives and makes hundreds of people comfortable and welcome a week. My brother is a nurse and a senior health and safety official in the country, my cousin is a manager for the local health authority, I know how hard they works and how well they do in making the services provided are on target and efficient.
>
>When the chips are down it's always there for you, there are no insurance premiums, no (sickeningly) astronomical costs for operations and treatment.
>
Do you really this benefit comes at no cost ? I believe you are smarter than that.
Do you really believe Americans below the poverty level have no access to healthcare ? Have you not heard of medicare ?
Does your NHS have to accomodate 12 million illegal aliens that pay nothing nto the system, yet continue to suck it dry ?
Since when is free healthcare a human right ?
How do you feel about your NHS being able to sustain it's financial footing ?



 
addi Posted: Tue Feb 22 10:43:10 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Ahriman said:
>lame

don't take it personal, Ahriman. I didn't intend it that way. It's just that I know you're a smart dude, and putting up anything relating to healthcare here is automatically going to morph into a political debate. The two things are tied together, for better or worse.
and I do hope that nightmare is over for you.

and, hif, it's a total waste of time to bother defending anything to you here. We all know that. In your eyes if it comes from a republican conservative then it's good; if it comes from a progressive democrat, then it's automatically evil...no need to think on your own, just regurgitate what you read at the kinds of sites in question here.


 
Ahriman Posted: Tue Feb 22 11:21:03 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I'm stepping back from political shennanigans again. What does it matter if you can pay for it or not if you still get killed by someone's negligence? We can make government pay for it all but what can you do to make a person that only got into the medical field for the money really care? Almost every single person I know that has become a doctor, surgeon, nurse, etc. has stated very clearly to me that it's all about the paycheck. On top of that, most of 'em only know how to push pills and give generalized answers. My stepdad went to four doctors because of chest pains. Every single one of 'em told him something different and prescribed a medication. My grandfather, a retired doctor/professor, took five minutes to listen to his chest properly and discovered the real reason behind it all. He would have died two years ago had it not been for those few minutes of real diagnosis. So no, the nightmare is not over. It's only started.


 
addi Posted: Tue Feb 22 12:13:04 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  so because that happened to your stepdad (and I'm sure it did) then you extrapolate from his experience that all doctors are incompetent boobs, or that because the people you know got into it for the $$ only that all people in the medical profession could give a rats ass about others and only are in it for themselves?
Is that your point here?

My father is a retired family practitioner. He got into it because he loved science and had a gift for understanding the human body, and because he wanted to help others. He lived comfortably, but was never close to wealthy, and is now having a very difficult time making ends meet living very modestly.

There are really good knowledgeable caring folks out there and there are shithead people out there in the medical field, that got into it for all the wrong reasons for sure, but if you want to draw some conclusion about that it's more a condemnation of humans in general rather than just those in the medical profession.
If health care stays private or if it goes completely socialized the shitheads will still be around...makes no difference.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Feb 22 12:33:18 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>
>and, Addi, it's a total waste of time to bother defending anything to you here. We all know that. In your eyes if it comes from a Liberal progressive then it's good; if it comes from a conservative, then it's automatically evil...no need to think on your own, just regurgitate what you read at the kinds of sites in question here.


 
addi Posted: Tue Feb 22 13:15:18 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Ouch!
it's almost like you took my lines and then changed just a few key words to change the entire meaning of what I wrote first!
Amazing!!
How do you do that?!
:)


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Feb 22 14:00:34 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>Ouch!
>it's almost like you took my lines and then changed just a few key words to change the entire meaning of what I wrote first!
>Amazing!!
>How do you do that?!
>:)
That was cute, but the proper response would have been touche.
:-)


 
Ahriman Posted: Tue Feb 22 14:14:31 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>so because that happened to your stepdad (and I'm sure it did) then you extrapolate from his experience that all doctors are incompetent boobs, or that because the people you know got into it for the $$ only that all people in the medical profession could give a rats ass about others and only are in it for themselves?
>Is that your point here?

Nope. My grandpa figured it out.
Yes, many people coming into the industry are in it for the money. That's what I said. That's the push for all us youngsters. Make'a'da money and drive'a'da car.

>My father is a retired family practitioner. He got into it because he loved science and had a gift for understanding the human body, and because he wanted to help others. He lived comfortably, but was never close to wealthy, and is now having a very difficult time making ends meet living very modestly.

He sounds like a great rare man and in the same circumstances as my grandfather.

>There are really good knowledgeable caring folks out there and there are shithead people out there in the medical field, that got into it for all the wrong reasons for sure, but if you want to draw some conclusion about that it's more a condemnation of humans in general rather than just those in the medical profession.
>If health care stays private or if it goes completely socialized the shitheads will still be around...makes no difference.

Yep, which is why I wanted to know if this particular hospital was full of 'em. If somebody here heard about a hotel that fed and killed 1200 people because they didn't care if the raw chicken touched their salads. Well I'd want to see someone fact check across GT. This is a community of different thinkers in different locations. Ya'll talkin' trash to each other isn't telling me anything. Best comment so far was Cherry_Moon's...


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Feb 22 14:47:48 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Ahri, I did post a link from BBC that corroborated the accusations made in your original post.


 
Ahriman Posted: Tue Feb 22 14:49:59 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Yes Sir and I thank you kindly for that. Actually I've got to say you've had some very valid points, hif.


 
addi Posted: Tue Feb 22 16:09:15 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Ahriman said:
>Best comment so far was Cherry_Moon's...

she's hoping for money from you.


 
addi Posted: Tue Feb 22 16:32:36 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>Do you really believe Americans below the poverty level have no access to healthcare ?

Healthcare available to them is shit, hif..and you know it. They can't afford preventative and general care check ups...so they show up at emergency rooms after the fact, where often it leads to even more taxpayer cost. Healthcare right now for middle income families is costing way too much now for what you get in return, and going up every year. There's a reason the HMO's are fighting this with millions of $$, and it's not because they have our best interests at heart.

>Have you not heard of medicare ?

I'm going through all this now with my mom since she's living with me. If you feel that good about medicare coverage why don't you drop any medical insurance you have right now and try to use that as your sole health care coverage...and then report back how it meets all your needs and how wonderful it is.

>Does your NHS have to accomodate 12 million illegal aliens that pay nothing nto the system, yet continue to suck it dry ?

Entirely different issue. Immigration law needs to be changed, but it's a diversion tactic for the right on this issue...to feed on the fear and bigotry of millions of Americans. Next thing you'll be telling me is that some Mexican took the lawn care job your were going after.

>Since when is free healthcare a human right ?

You have an entirely different vision than I do of what my country should be and provide for it's citizens. I guess as long as it's meeting your needs then fuck everyone else, eh?




 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Feb 22 16:52:54 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addi said:
>ifihadahif said:
>
>>Do you really believe Americans below the poverty level have no access to healthcare ?
>
>Healthcare available to them is shit, hif..and you know it. They can't afford preventative and general care check ups...so they show up at emergency rooms after the fact, where often it leads to even more taxpayer cost. Healthcare right now for middle income families is costing way too much now for what you get in return, and going up every year. There's a reason the HMO's are fighting this with millions of $$, and it's not because they have our best interests at heart.
>
>>Have you not heard of medicare ?
>
>I'm going through all this now with my mom since she's living with me. If you feel that good about medicare coverage why don't you drop any medical insurance you have right now and try to use that as your sole health care coverage...and then report back how it meets all your needs and how wonderful it is.
>
>>Does your NHS have to accomodate 12 million illegal aliens that pay nothing nto the system, yet continue to suck it dry ?
>
>Entirely different issue. Immigration law needs to be changed, but it's a diversion tactic for the right on this issue...to feed on the fear and bigotry of millions of Americans. Next thing you'll be telling me is that some Mexican took the lawn care job your were going after.
>
Yes immigration is a different issue, but this is not a diversion tactic. Surely you would admit that if we didn't have to deal with 12 million illegals, that we could more easily provide for our own needy ?

>>Since when is free healthcare a human right ?
>
>You have an entirely different vision than I do of what my country should be and provide for it's citizens. I guess as long as it's meeting your needs then fuck everyone else, eh?
>
I absolutely believe that our federal govt has no business trying to provide healthcare for our people.
While I'm at it, I believe Dept of Education, Dept of Energy, Dept of Agriculture and a few others should be abolished and we should say fuck you to the UN !


 
addi Posted: Tue Feb 22 21:39:49 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>I absolutely believe that our federal govt has no business trying to provide healthcare for our people.
>While I'm at it, I believe Dept of Education, Dept of Energy, Dept of Agriculture and a few others should be abolished and we should say fuck you to the UN !

you're sounding like a libertarian now, hif.


 
Kira Posted: Tue Feb 22 22:03:04 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Ahriman said:
>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2010/02/26/uk-health-care-horror-1200-die-needlessly-in-filthy-blood-splattered-hospital/
>
>reaaaallly?


This is just the kind of thing that makes me inclined to film any interactions I might have with government employees or any large bureaucratic (but not necessarily government) organization.

If the media won't take it YouTube will.

I wonder of the Internet community would get as upset over dehydrated patients having to drink out of flower vases as they did over that woman who put a cat in a garbage bin.


 
Kira Posted: Tue Feb 22 22:09:47 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  "If" the Internet, not Of.

Also, I found it amusing that the BBC article headline put "caused deaths" in quotes.


 
Puck Posted: Tue Feb 22 22:46:16 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>Surely you would admit that if we didn't have to deal with 12 million illegals, that we could more easily provide for our own needy ?

So, who exactly pays the living expenses for those illegals? American businesses that pay them under the table, allowing for them to not need to pay taxes, maybe?


 
mat_j Posted: Wed Feb 23 07:28:41 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Pretty much everything i was gonna say has already been rehashed, i will add i am happy with my tax rate and don't mind if it increases slightly to pay for the health service. I work for insurance and some of that includes medical so i know how that can go from an industry perspective too.

The problem is when you look at a health system from a rate of patients succesfully treated or patients unsuccesfully treated it's hard to accurately account for the number of people who have no access to treatment, it's all well and good to criticise this system that deals with near enough 70 million people from the cradle to the grave (whether they put them there or not ;-)) but it works and it works damned well!

It's far from perfect, nobody said that, and what happened in that Stafford hospital was fucking disgusting, and it's tragic sometimes that funding restraints mean that certain treatments might not be available to patients but that's not an argument for ending the NHS, to me it's an argument for inocreasing it's funding at the expense of the military or one of the other idiotic enterprises this country takes part in.

Would i pay more tax to give more money to the NHS, you bet your sweet ass i would!




 
Ahriman Posted: Wed Feb 23 11:24:42 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  mat_j said:
>It's far from perfect, nobody said that, and what happened in that Stafford hospital was fucking disgusting, and it's tragic sometimes that funding restraints mean that certain treatments might not be available to patients but that's not an argument for ending the NHS, to me it's an argument for inocreasing it's funding at the expense of the military or one of the other idiotic enterprises this country takes part in.

Nobody ever said you should end it.

>Would i pay more tax to give more money to the NHS, you bet your sweet ass i would!


You would pay more? Even though this is a watchdog issue...


 
Ahriman Posted: Wed Feb 23 11:49:58 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Kira said:
>This is just the kind of thing that makes me inclined to film any interactions I might have with government employees or any large bureaucratic (but not necessarily government) organization.
>
>If the media won't take it YouTube will.

Yes Sir! That's the smart thinkin' I want to hear.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Wed Feb 23 13:35:59 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  mat_j said:
>Pretty much everything i was gonna say has already been rehashed, i will add i am happy with my tax rate and don't mind if it increases slightly to pay for the health service. I work for insurance and some of that includes medical so i know how that can go from an industry perspective too.
>
>The problem is when you look at a health system from a rate of patients succesfully treated or patients unsuccesfully treated it's hard to accurately account for the number of people who have no access to treatment, it's all well and good to criticise this system that deals with near enough 70 million people from the cradle to the grave (whether they put them there or not ;-)) but it works and it works damned well!
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>It's far from perfect, nobody said that, and what happened in that Stafford hospital was fucking disgusting, and it's tragic sometimes that funding restraints mean that certain treatments might not be available to patients but that's not an argument for ending the NHS, to me it's an argument for inocreasing it's funding at the expense of the military or one of the other idiotic enterprises this country takes part in.
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>Would i pay more tax to give more money to the NHS, you bet your sweet ass i would!
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You like the NHS and I don't have a problem with that.
I like what I have but I'm painfully aware that changes need to be made.
My point is that an overwhelming majority of Americans feel that Obamacare is not the answer and would prefer it hadn't been passed, the dems were aware of this and passed it anyway.
Hence the historical republican victory last november.


 



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