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boondock743 Posted: Fri Sep 2 09:37:15 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Why is it that the people that disagree with me always say I'm "closed minded", when that's exactly how I feel about them. I know I'm not (I'm pretty damn sure anyways) closed minded; but, how do I show them that they have it backwards. So, i guess the question is: How do you convince a closed minded person, who thinks they have an open mind, that they're wrong. Also, how can I be sure that I'm not the closed minded one since the problem is that the closed minded person doesn't realize thier problem??????


 
ifihadahif Posted: Fri Sep 2 12:44:59 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  boondock743 said:
>Why is it that the people that disagree with me always say I'm "closed minded", when that's exactly how I feel about them. I know I'm not (I'm pretty damn sure anyways) closed minded; but, how do I show them that they have it backwards. So, i guess the question is: How do you convince a closed minded person, who thinks they have an open mind, that they're wrong. Also, how can I be sure that I'm not the closed minded one since the problem is that the closed minded person doesn't realize thier problem??????
>
If you can't actually prove your point with logic, then you must consider that you might be wrong. If that is the case then you must consider that the other guy might have a point. If he cannot prove his point either then you must each be prepared to accept the other guy might be right. The person that refuses to accept this is most definitely close minded. I know this to be true because I am always right.

I'm Sure Crim could explain this much better than I since he has a much more extensive background in logic.


 
boondock743 Posted: Fri Sep 2 12:53:39 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>boondock743 said:
>>Why is it that the people that disagree with me always say I'm "closed minded", when that's exactly how I feel about them. I know I'm not (I'm pretty damn sure anyways) closed minded; but, how do I show them that they have it backwards. So, i guess the question is: How do you convince a closed minded person, who thinks they have an open mind, that they're wrong. Also, how can I be sure that I'm not the closed minded one since the problem is that the closed minded person doesn't realize thier problem??????
>>
>If you can't actually prove your point with logic, then you must consider that you might be wrong. If that is the case then you must consider that the other guy might have a point. If he cannot prove his point either then you must each be prepared to accept the other guy might be right. The person that refuses to accept this is most definitely close minded. I know this to be true because I am always right.
>
>I'm Sure Crim could explain this much better than I since he has a much more extensive background in logic.

But our debates are always a matter of philosophy, religion, good & evil.... So no matter what proof I offer it always comes back to one's own perspective. I've discussed, argued, and learned about all sides of these things for years and I'm sure I'm right... in my perspective. How do I make someone else see the world from my point of view?


 
choke Posted: Fri Sep 2 18:37:08 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  boondock743 said:
>ifihadahif said:
>>boondock743 said:
>>>Why is it that the people that disagree with me always say I'm "closed minded", when that's exactly how I feel about them. I know I'm not (I'm pretty damn sure anyways) closed minded; but, how do I show them that they have it backwards. So, i guess the question is: How do you convince a closed minded person, who thinks they have an open mind, that they're wrong. Also, how can I be sure that I'm not the closed minded one since the problem is that the closed minded person doesn't realize thier problem??????
>>>
>>If you can't actually prove your point with logic, then you must consider that you might be wrong. If that is the case then you must consider that the other guy might have a point. If he cannot prove his point either then you must each be prepared to accept the other guy might be right. The person that refuses to accept this is most definitely close minded. I know this to be true because I am always right.
>>
>>I'm Sure Crim could explain this much better than I since he has a much more extensive background in logic.
>
>But our debates are always a matter of philosophy, religion, good & evil.... So no matter what proof I offer it always comes back to one's own perspective. I've discussed, argued, and learned about all sides of these things for years and I'm sure I'm right... in my perspective. How do I make someone else see the world from my point of view?

Lol I think the fact that you're trying to make others see the world from your point of view might be what your friends are seizing upon as "close mindedness". It's not the same definition as I would have given it, but I think it shows a little to assume that people can be convinced of things at all. I think being open minded is understanding that people are going to believe whatever they want to believe, and your excellent skills in persuasion don't mean diddle. Sorry!


 
ifihadahif Posted: Fri Sep 2 19:41:56 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  boondock743 said:
>ifihadahif said:
>>boondock743 said:
>>>Why is it that the people that disagree with me always say I'm "closed minded", when that's exactly how I feel about them. I know I'm not (I'm pretty damn sure anyways) closed minded; but, how do I show them that they have it backwards. So, i guess the question is: How do you convince a closed minded person, who thinks they have an open mind, that they're wrong. Also, how can I be sure that I'm not the closed minded one since the problem is that the closed minded person doesn't realize thier problem??????
>>>
>>If you can't actually prove your point with logic, then you must consider that you might be wrong. If that is the case then you must consider that the other guy might have a point. If he cannot prove his point either then you must each be prepared to accept the other guy might be right. The person that refuses to accept this is most definitely close minded. I know this to be true because I am always right.
>>
>>I'm Sure Crim could explain this much better than I since he has a much more extensive background in logic.
>
>But our debates are always a matter of philosophy, religion, good & evil.... So no matter what proof I offer it always comes back to one's own perspective. I've discussed, argued, and learned about all sides of these things for years and I'm sure I'm right... in my perspective. How do I make someone else see the world from my point of view?
>
It's been my experience that hitting them over the head with a banjo is very persuasive.

Otherwise, you have to be willing to reciprocate and see it from their perspective as well.
For instance, I'm pretty sure I am right most all of the time when I've disagreed with Addi on all things political, however, I am willing to concede that he is not a stupid man and he must have reasons for believing the way he does.
That being said, I still firmly believe my way of seeing things is superior to his. At least where political ideology is concerned.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Fri Sep 2 19:44:16 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Also, if they're really out to get you, then you're not being paranoid. It must also be true that if you're absolutely correct, then you're not being close minded.


 
Posted: Sun Sep 4 15:50:28 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  "When men speak ill of thee, live so as nobody may believe them"


 
Kira Posted: Sun Sep 4 20:46:20 2011 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I remember seeing an article about persuasive arguments somewhere, which stated that it takes most people at least three times hearing an argument before it even begins working its way into the objective part of their brains. The message of the article was not to give up on convincing people just because they don't listen to you the first time, not to expect them to agree with you just because you're right. The more important the issue, the harder its going to be for people to change their minds. An open-minded person will listen to reason in the end, while a closed-minded person will eventually just avoid the subject altogether, neither wanting to listen nor waste energy trying to persuade.

Now, I don't know about the whole "third time's a charm" thing, but I do believe it pays to be persistent, if you care about the issue and you care about the person.


 



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